pjhayes7
Double Eagle Member
I actually like that they have so many choices, but I just wish they were more up front about what those choices are (especially with the special blends) so people can make more informed purchases.
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[Gateway] Gateway Wizard
- Thread starter Fosterjon35
- Start date
I actually like that they have so many choices, but I just wish they were more up front about what those choices are (especially with the special blends) so people can make more informed purchases.
art_vandelay
Eagle Member
I'm not even sure they know themselves but they keep on turning plastic into Magics. See what I did there?
Audible Vibration
Birdie Member
Looks like infinite discs is starting to list the SB number on their page. Not all of them have it, but at least half do. Musta been all those emails I sent them and all the checking I had them do 
Shout out to infinitediscs.com for anyone that doesn't buy through them or know if them. Their customer service was awesome, and now they're making a proactive change so people don't have to reach out for this info. Plus with pics of each disc, good prices, fast & cheap shipping, and variety of brands, there isn't really a need for me to get my discs elsewhere. I'll get an occasional discs at my local shop to support, but infinite has them beat too.
Shout out to infinitediscs.com for anyone that doesn't buy through them or know if them. Their customer service was awesome, and now they're making a proactive change so people don't have to reach out for this info. Plus with pics of each disc, good prices, fast & cheap shipping, and variety of brands, there isn't really a need for me to get my discs elsewhere. I'll get an occasional discs at my local shop to support, but infinite has them beat too.
ThomasOrion
* Ace Member *
I was interested in some Gateway discs and went to their site to learn more. It was not easy or organized with plastics. If they updated the site and updated the info so that consumers KNOW what they want it would help everybody. They make great putters yet there are SO many runs and so many variations that its all just a grab bag I feel
tbird888
Salient Disc Test Team
That's why you contact them with what you want exactly. This has been posted ad nauseum in this thread and just about every other Gateway thread. I think I've spent more time on this reply than on every time I've contacted Gateway for the 100+ Wizards I've bought from them combined.
There seem to be two arguments in this thread, Contact them and tell them what you want, and they'll hook you up and I have no idea how to figure out what I want. I guess no one actually reads comments.
And I guess Gateway will continue to ignore customer requests and rely on dated business practice.
tbird888
Salient Disc Test Team
Can't comment on being ignored. They have picked up the phone every time I've called, and they've has answered every email.
Not sure why you think they need to change their business practices. Do you own some of the company?
I just looked at their site, and while there is definitely a lot of information there, it's still super confusing. They wrote a whole article/post comparing the wizard to the aviar, but they never address how the flexibilities match up to other discs. The info seems a bit dated as well. Are they still only offering 4 flexibilities? I know dude said to call them, but do people really want to have an in depth conversation about disc firmness when they could just read a quick blurb online? Maybe that's what he means about updating business practices. I don't know. I like wizards, and like the numerous options in feel to them, but it's definitely confusing.
art_vandelay
Eagle Member
I'm guessing they could sell a ton more wizards if they had a better marketing plan and all the other things that go along with a modern business including an up to date, informative website. I sort of get the impression they don't give a ****e and are doing very well thank you. The lack of a coherent plan is a plan in a way.
You know what they are super good at?
Making what is arguably the best effing putter of all time.
Making what is arguably the best effing putter of all time.
pjhayes7
Double Eagle Member
You are both right. Art is not saying they don't make great products. But from a business standpoint, that is only a small percentage of what it takes to be successful. If Gateway is content with their current position, that is their prerogative. But it does not make Art's statement any less true that they could do more and it would likely result in them making more money.
Is anybody else bothered by the giant ring of text on the bottom of newer Wizards? My middle fingers tend to slip.... especially off the section with the phone number and website.
So I don't really talk to the Daviar anymore, but from what I remember about him he likes to design courses. He makes discs so he has enough money to go out and design courses. His putters are really good becasue he really likes to throw putters and was really into making a better driving putter. He never really had a business plan other than he wanted to shut down his construction contracting business and make a living in disc golf, and he sells enough Wizards to do that. Trying to get Gateway to suddenly become this well-oiled business is just not what he is motivated to do.
I was in there last week. I grabbed some X-outs, which are in the front of the place. I was there for about 15 minutes digging through discs. When I was ready to go, I had to walk in the back and find somebody who would take my money. If I had never been in a Gateway location before, I might have thought it was a joke. I was at Gateway when it was the Daviar making Sabres in his basement. From my perspective when I consider everything that could have happened, it's amazing that Gateway has survived and grown into what it is.
I was in there last week. I grabbed some X-outs, which are in the front of the place. I was there for about 15 minutes digging through discs. When I was ready to go, I had to walk in the back and find somebody who would take my money. If I had never been in a Gateway location before, I might have thought it was a joke. I was at Gateway when it was the Daviar making Sabres in his basement. From my perspective when I consider everything that could have happened, it's amazing that Gateway has survived and grown into what it is.
pjhayes7
Double Eagle Member
In all honesty, good for him. If only we were all so lucky to have a job that makes us enough money to allow us to live a comfortable life and do what we enjoy in our spare time. As much as I complain that I want Gateway to do more, I actually respect that he is not trying to make it a bigger business just because that is what everyone expects a business to do. Knowing that, this will be my last comment on what I wish Gateway would do and instead just comment on the products specifically. Thanks Three Putt for the info.
art_vandelay
Eagle Member
I played a round with Dave a few years ago before I knew who he was on a course he designed. We were halfway through the round and I'm wondering why this guy has so much to say about the course and then someone told me who he was. He is pretty low key and unassuming. I never once heard him mention his company or anything about gateway. It was all about the lines on the course to him I think.
He is also a really good golfer. Long turnover shots were beautiful.
He is also a really good golfer. Long turnover shots were beautiful.
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Back in the day when DGA had the basket patent and Innova had the beveled disc patent, anybody who tried to do anything got the pants sued off them. I ran into Dave at a course in probably '99 when he had just been sued by Innova, he had the papers in his Jeep and let us read it while he looked over our shoulders and randomly quipped "It's such bull****!" With the benefit of hindsight, Innova and DGA were really wasting thier time and shooting themselves in the foot. Guys like Dave were never going to challenge Innova for market share. They were going to find a little niche and promote the Hell out of disc golf. Innova and DGA stood to gain a lot from the promotion of a bunch of little guys, but instead they sued them and tried to scare people off who were ready to put some skin in the game.
The Wizard really is that niche that a little guy carved out for himself. So long as those Wizards keep coming out, I'm good with the Gateway business model (or lack thereof.)
^ Super Moderator indeed!
Truth.
Truth.
Casey 1988
Shun the frumious Bandersnatch!
Even Gateway got in on the buying a brand up and making there molds starting in 2006 with Quest. Now Quest is its own brand somebody bought up the brand and is selling disc with a Champion, Elite Z type plastic that looks slightly off, cheap or bad molding process. In 2016 the brand was gone from Gateways Line up.
I barely remember the Quest thing, but Quest AT was a company that did injection molding in Chicago. I even forget his name, but anyway the Quest dude wasn't a golfer. He saw golf discs in a gas station and thought "I can make these for $.80, if I can sell them for $14 there is money to be made there. So he got in. Somewhere along the line he met Dave. Dave always wanted to focus on course development and saw an opportunity the have Quest make discs for Gateway, so he could be a disc manufacturer without the bother of actually making the discs (which is what Dynamic has done.) Things were going OK, they Odyssey overmolds were interesting and the Inferno was a good driver when GDS was selling it. The Quest guy was always looking for a gimmick and Dave was willing to explore things like textured wings or dimples that might improve disc performance, so some of the stuff was a little different but whatever.
Then Quest came up with the 10M Brick. It was released as a Gateway disc. From what I was told, it was on the market before anybody at GDS knew what it was. The business arrangement (which had always been a loose partnership anyway) broke down a bit as GDS tried to distance themselves from the Turbo Putt/Wheel weirdness that Quest was about to unleash. The companies still worked together, just not as closely as before. Quest made the original Diablo and Assassin for Gateway for a long time after the 10M Brick thing happened.
Quest kinda became a running joke in disc golf and got out of the disc making game quite awhile ago from what I understand. I know they were making knock-off home brewing kits after the disc golf thing, but now I can't find any evidence that they are still in business. Gateway is still around making Wizards. They were two very different companies. If Quest would have let Gateway handle the development/distribution and would have just produced the discs without going off the rails, they would have had a much better shot of making it in disc golf.
Then Quest came up with the 10M Brick. It was released as a Gateway disc. From what I was told, it was on the market before anybody at GDS knew what it was. The business arrangement (which had always been a loose partnership anyway) broke down a bit as GDS tried to distance themselves from the Turbo Putt/Wheel weirdness that Quest was about to unleash. The companies still worked together, just not as closely as before. Quest made the original Diablo and Assassin for Gateway for a long time after the 10M Brick thing happened.
Quest kinda became a running joke in disc golf and got out of the disc making game quite awhile ago from what I understand. I know they were making knock-off home brewing kits after the disc golf thing, but now I can't find any evidence that they are still in business. Gateway is still around making Wizards. They were two very different companies. If Quest would have let Gateway handle the development/distribution and would have just produced the discs without going off the rails, they would have had a much better shot of making it in disc golf.
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ThomasOrion
* Ace Member *
Ok I have done a lil research but I wanted to get some quick responses from the 'experts'
S - Suregrip/Soft? But not really soft, its more firm, right?
How do the other compare? I am looking at a couple Wiz's online and not able to "go to a store and feel em up" nor am i able to call and talk right now SO (dont be a debbie downer)
S=Soft, but actually its more firm than the others??
SS= More flexible than S??
SSS= even More Flexible? - Super Stupid Soft? But i heard its more the feel of being velvety and not really Flexible??
4S = Gummy?
RFF= Gumputt??
PWP = ???? help?
SB-30=??????
S - Suregrip/Soft? But not really soft, its more firm, right?
How do the other compare? I am looking at a couple Wiz's online and not able to "go to a store and feel em up" nor am i able to call and talk right now SO (dont be a debbie downer)
S=Soft, but actually its more firm than the others??
SS= More flexible than S??
SSS= even More Flexible? - Super Stupid Soft? But i heard its more the feel of being velvety and not really Flexible??
4S = Gummy?
RFF= Gumputt??
PWP = ???? help?
SB-30=??????
