They don't actually say exactly how they calculate it.
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Handicap League Calculations
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They don't actually say exactly how they calculate it.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Proprietary but it works better than any system out there for handling multiple courses and courses where changing weather regularly impacts the SSA and it also deals with sandbagging better than any system.
That's not what I've heard. Plus I'm not going to be able to get everyone in our club to join so it's kind of moot.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Too bad. It's a pretty good value at $10 a year, less work for you and a better system. Why should TDs do the handicap work free for players? They do enough free as it is.
chickenonabun
Double Eagle Member
I'm not even very good and I just have no clue why people would play a handicap league (unless you're really bad and inconsistant). I feel like it doesn't reward truly good play (not good compared to your average), and If you want to win you should get better by practicing and actually win.
I actually want to have 2 divisions Open and handicapped. The open will be paid out in cash the handicapped will be paid out in club plastic. Right now we have 3 divisions, but it usually ends up being just 2.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Many players choose to compete when they have a chance to win or cash. Many more choose not to compete if they know they have little chance...
IcebergSlimD
Newbie
For my league, I keep a spreadsheet of all the scores. One method I have used is to take the last 5 rounds for a player, throw out the highest and lowest score, then average the remaining 3 scores and subtract it from par. The result is that player's handicap. It is capped at +5 and -10. Kevin McCoy was playing with a +7 before the cap went in and he was basically eliminated at the start by being required to shoot a perfect round.
The new method I employ is to calculate the player's standard deviation for all their rounds. I then toss out any scores that are more than 1 standard deviation away and calculate the average of the remaining scores. It is similar to my other method, it works better with the larger amount of data.
New players are started out at scratch or given a handicap based on their rating. I also reserve the right to give someone a higher or lower handicap based on how I know they can shoot.
It is a bit tough at first, but once you hit 3 rds a person, then it all smooths out and becomes fair. We typically have an 18 shot scratch spread that is reduced to 7 or 8 by handicaps.
The new method I employ is to calculate the player's standard deviation for all their rounds. I then toss out any scores that are more than 1 standard deviation away and calculate the average of the remaining scores. It is similar to my other method, it works better with the larger amount of data.
New players are started out at scratch or given a handicap based on their rating. I also reserve the right to give someone a higher or lower handicap based on how I know they can shoot.
It is a bit tough at first, but once you hit 3 rds a person, then it all smooths out and becomes fair. We typically have an 18 shot scratch spread that is reduced to 7 or 8 by handicaps.
I f***ing hate hanicaps! Its why I quit playing ball golf leagues. If someone tries hard to elevate their game and puts in the time on the course to get better they should never loose to a less skilled player. It undermines the code of working hard and getting rewarded for it. We have one course around me that has a handicap league and I stay away from it. I would rather just lose than beat someone because of free strokes or get beat by a less skilled player that plays once a month. I sure hope this doesn't catch on everywhere and become the norm. (Ok, rant over. Carry on)
Lewis
* Ace Member *
If the better players are shunning the handicapped leagues on some scruple of honor, there isn't much you can do to get them interested, but if they think the handicap league means less payout for them, they're miscalculating the probabilities. In most handicap leagues, witness recent posts in this thread, players get the benefit of 80% -- not 100% -- of their handicap. That means if you have a -10 handicap, you get 8 strokes, not 10, still leaving you with an expected disadvantage of 2 strokes vs. a player with a 0 handicap. What that means is that, over time, it's still a "sucker bet" for the scratch player, but the improved odds may make the contest more enticing to the high handicappers. Imagine two casinos on opposite sides of the street; Casino A offers 20:1 odds in favor of the house, and Casino B offers 1.2:1 odds in favor of the house. In both cases, the house wins, but Casino B is going to get almost all of the business, and Casino A is going to go out of business. Handicap sports leagues are analogous to Casino B.
If you want a small number of experts trading the same money back and forth every week, go ahead and shun the idea of handicaps. If you want a large group of players of different skills, install a handicap system and explain the math to the expert athletes.
If you want a small number of experts trading the same money back and forth every week, go ahead and shun the idea of handicaps. If you want a large group of players of different skills, install a handicap system and explain the math to the expert athletes.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
True competitors don't avoid handicap formats. It forces you to play better than your average to guarantee a win. It's weak sauce to still beat other players when shooting a round below your skill level just because you are more skilled on average than the others.
Lewis
* Ace Member *
I agree. :thmbup:
IcebergSlimD
Newbie
When it comes to handicaps, the people that shoot better than their average typically win. A person with a high handicap still has to play relatively well.
The more skilled player should always win. Why is it that ball golf and disc golf are the only sports that like to handicap? We don't handicap high school football games or softball leagues. We don't tell Kobe Bryant he has to score 14 point before his score starts to count. I've always been of the mindset that if you want to win, you practice and get better. I think its weak sauce to just give someone that's not athletic or doesn't practice free strokes. We might as well start telling kids they don't have to practice at all. Just show up and you get a trophy. Scrambles with an A and B player works out just fine. Different people win every week and it all comes down to how well you and your partner click that night. You still have to be your best to cash.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Sorry, Cooter. It's not that the more skilled shouldn't normally win, but they shouldn't feel as good about it if they still win when shooting below their skill level. That's weak. I won yesterday averaging 20 points below my rating. Yes, the few bucks I won was nice. But I wasn't happy with my performance. If you are really competitive you shouldn't avoid handicapped play. You really don't deserve to win if you are slacking that day and others are playing well.
Handicapping is done in many more sports than ball or disc golf. There's bowling, horse racing and polo among others. And, virtually all sports betting is handicapped in some way. That's why more people participate.
Handicapping is done in many more sports than ball or disc golf. There's bowling, horse racing and polo among others. And, virtually all sports betting is handicapped in some way. That's why more people participate.
I wouldn't call a points spread in sports a handicap. If one team is better than another it still counts as a win on their record and you have an even chance of picking the game one way or another. That's just a gamble. I happy that you felt sorry for the guys you beat but not me. A win is a win. I wouldn't get into a stupid handicap bowling league either.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Just don't consider yourself a true competitor. If you avoid handicapped events, you're in fear you won't be up to it.
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That's not it at all. I'm just not going to lose my hard earned money in a sport that I have put in a lot of time and sweat into, to a guy that doesn't have a job, comes to leagues drunk, and plays DG once a month (we have those guys around). Just go throw on some skinny jeans, a pink shirt, and deny your genetic athletic edge at your league. (Just some mean sarcasm there buddy. I still love ya CgK!)
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Just admit you're scared to compete even though you still have an advantage in handicapped leagues. The "suckers" are the lower skilled players who still only get 80% credit for the difference in their throw skill. Even then, you and many higher level players still run scared, miss the opportunity to encourage more players to participate, aspire to higher levels and boost your field size in the long run.
Lewis
* Ace Member *
I don't expect I'm going to change your mind enough for you to give handicap leagues a try, but I don't think you understand the purpose of handicapping. In an event that uses handicaps, the purpose of the competition isn't to figure out who is more skilled -- that's already a given described by everybody's handicap. The purpose of the competition is to find out who can outperform his or own skill on a given day.
A lot of people think a fair fight is more fun and more interesting, and frown on the sight of a big high-school jock beating up a skinny freshman. This is the logic behind weight classes in boxing, wrestling, weight lifting, etc.: a fair fight is more fun for the competitors and more entertaining for the audience. A pro disc golfer who wants to compete against novices and mediocre amateurs without giving them any kind of handicap is more like Kobe Bryant showing up to play full-court pickup basketball at the YMCA and being unwilling to handicap himself in some way. I wouldn't expect disc golf pros to have any more interest or find any more satisfaction in behaving like that than Kobe Bryant would, nor should you expect the amateurs around you to sign up in droves for their beating any more than Kobe would expect the local YMCA members to enjoy their beating. I would bet that everyone involved would have more fun if Kobe made it more interesting by tying one hand behind his back and playing with two other players against a team of five. Kobe's team would still probably win, but it would be far more interesting than Kobe just dunking on everyone with every possession.
So if you only want to play in "scratch" competitions, there's nothing wrong with that, but don't expect anyone but "scratch" players to show up to compete against you. If you want to compete against players of different skill levels, you should be willing to take the risk of giving them a chance to win. But there's really no honor or satisfaction in "winning" a competition that presents no challenge, unless you're in it to stroke your ego or take some pocket change from a few suckers rather than to give yourself a challenge to overcome.
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