wow, you must know everything.
The hardest course I have played is Elk Creek DGC in Appamattox, VA. It's a solid course with tight fairways and harsh rough.
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Hardest Course Ever
- Thread starter bikinjack
- Start date
wow, you must know everything.
The hardest course I have played is Elk Creek DGC in Appamattox, VA. It's a solid course with tight fairways and harsh rough.
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2009
- Messages
- 2,048
I was hoping you'd show up with Pioneer Ridge! :clap:
Yeah, I forgot about IHCC! CW is right about IHCC! You can make a day out of Ottumwa with all 3 courses! But Hit IHCC First,
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I really wanna get back there and play it. It's been too long.
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2009
- Messages
- 2,048
Agreed! Now that I've played it once, I'll probably have a better time next time! No surprises!
I just got to get back to Iowa again!
No but given the collective knowledge of all the course designers and players I know and their experiences I feel pretty comfortable in my assertion.
7 1010+ rated players I know have this at the top of their list and as far as I know those are the only ones who have played it. Nikko JohnE, and Bunnel included.
Agreed! Now that I've played it once, I'll probably have a better time next time! No surprises!
You'll have to hit me up when you are in the area. I play IHCC all the time and can show you around Memorial.
I can't find the SSA's on the PDGA website anymore, and Ozark Mountain isn't even listed on the Course Directory (but Akita's Run is...weird.) Anyway, I'm pretty sure the SSA for Ozark Mountain was up in the 70's somewhere. I might be wrong about that, but I seem to remember it being really high.
93.5 is nothing. If I posted my scores from Ozark Mountain, I could blow that 93.5 out of the water. I'm pretty sure I could pop the average into triple digits with just one round.
http://www.pdga.com/course-ratings-by-tournament?TournID=8633
Now I def stick to my guns. SSA of 74.5 is SICK SICK SICK
Nikko couldn't break 70 in two tries.
Now I def stick to my guns. SSA of 74.5 is SICK SICK SICK
Nikko couldn't break 70 in two tries.
WillACarpenter
* Ace Member *
I've been playing for about 14 weeks. I've played 8 courses. I can honestly say that hard is a relative term.
I don't doubt that ozark is insane, and I'd love to go and score a 186 on it. Bit different strokes for different folks.
Around here I know a lot of people think basil is hard because of the trees, bit it's one of my better courses.
Chili (baker farm) has few trees bit the back nine is long and open and was brutal when I'd just started, haven't been in two months.
Emerson park has a good mixture of shots bit this time of year the front 8are like playing in a hurricane!
But my cruel mistress is Parma. Long holes tight holes weird elevation shots such a gorgeous course and some unique elements.
If I beak 80 there I'll be excited.
I don't doubt that ozark is insane, and I'd love to go and score a 186 on it. Bit different strokes for different folks.
Around here I know a lot of people think basil is hard because of the trees, bit it's one of my better courses.
Chili (baker farm) has few trees bit the back nine is long and open and was brutal when I'd just started, haven't been in two months.
Emerson park has a good mixture of shots bit this time of year the front 8are like playing in a hurricane!
But my cruel mistress is Parma. Long holes tight holes weird elevation shots such a gorgeous course and some unique elements.
If I beak 80 there I'll be excited.
Brown Deer. extremely over rated. and I live in Milwaukee. my PERSONAL demon of a course is Leviathan in Ludington, MI. DESTROYED me in the state finals.
Yeah, I guess the fact that the guy who won USDGC shot a 77 and a 72 out there this spring (and won) says something about the course.
I would have like to play Chili back when it hosted Worlds in 09'. Looked like it was in prime shape.
if you wanna go by course avg and ssa
course avg / ssa
ozark = 93.5/76.72 = 1.255
pioneer = 69.4/48.3 = 1.436
I'm not saying Ozark isn't hard, because I haven't played it. Just based off the pics, it looks like a lot of distance for the sake of distance. You don't get much tighter than Pioneer, accuracy is a must or you will be in deep trouble. It's all a difference in opinion on what is hard, and what is not.
course avg / ssa
ozark = 93.5/76.72 = 1.255
pioneer = 69.4/48.3 = 1.436
I'm not saying Ozark isn't hard, because I haven't played it. Just based off the pics, it looks like a lot of distance for the sake of distance. You don't get much tighter than Pioneer, accuracy is a must or you will be in deep trouble. It's all a difference in opinion on what is hard, and what is not.
that course looks incredible. i LOVE it...well the masochist in me does.
loves this course too:
Sunrise DGC
hands down the most brutal course ive played. i look forward to playing it every summer at least two or three times. kicks my ass though. playing nine at Sunrise DGC feels like playing 27 at one of my local courses.
A difficult course isn't just a course that takes more strokes to finish. I'm sure you would agree with that. And I get what you're saying about the course, which is obviously a very tough course. What I'm getting at is that you sound cocky. A little humility mixed in with your talent would be awesome.
I'm not sure if you know what SSA is. By your own admission the SSA of Pioneer Trail is around a 48. That means a 1000 rated player should expect to shoot a 48 on that course. At Ozark Mountain that same player should expect to shoot a 76. 28 strokes higher. I'm not sure how that would figure into any argument for Pioneer Trail being more difficult.
WillACarpenter
* Ace Member *
2011 am worlds my friend. We'll have parma dressed up nice too.
Also I found. A 99 worlds mini at play it again. Super awesome.
I am cocky when it comes to this course since I haven't even played it and know its harder than anything I've already played. Closest thing I played was a Temp course which means it doesn't really count but a 70 was 1000 rated.
No a course that takes more strokes isn't always "harder" but when a course has length, woods, water, elevation, and fatigue factor that makes is a pretty strong contender. Especially when this course has the highest SSA I have ever seen.
Ryan said it perfectly
How difficult a course is, is not numbers it's opinion. I was just giving him an avg to ssa ratio, since he was spouting off numbers.
I judge a course for how difficult it is, to how accurate I have to be, not how far I have to throw to get those birdies or even pars. Ozarks looks like a beautiful course, and if it was farther north I'd definitely add it to my list. I just don't care to throw 500' every single hole over and over. Based on the SSA (Yes I know what it is) you have to drive twice before you can even upshot and then putt. As for the open-ness, it's still more open than Pioneer. Here's a top view of pioneer, the red is where it ends to the right, everything to the left (not the road up top, that is the front 9 of Rodeo) is Pioneer.
