Help a beginner out please.

[djjeremiahj]

...

You're not helping him by adding "instant distance" to his game.

do you guys read the words you write.

have you ever thrown the katana?

For a noob, it is instant distace and easy to control. Any noob can instantly "plug into" a katana and find 30-40' over their teebird or Valkyrie. WITHOUT losing any control issues or problems.

INSTANT DISTANCE with ZERO affects of the boss or wraith hooking into bad spaces. yes, it's a "finesse driver" so with your teebird you can pick the patch of grass to land on, and with the katana, the drive WILL go straight and you can put the disc in the "general area" of where you intended it.

I'm watching it instantly change the playing games of many players on my home course. Yes, it's a fast disc, but its something a noob can use (albeit improperly) and instantly find a longer drive. I'm watching the 275' guys find over 300', the 300' guys find close to 350' and the 350' guys find the super long distances (for us) @ 400....all real "course" distance and not field distances.(Dont even get me started on what the forehand guys can do..................)

Ironically, it's a "bomber disc" that one of the god arms can blow our minds with..... but for the rest of us....

INSTANT DISTANCE. It's straight, only fades at the very end, and it's slightly wind resistant.

Throw it, tell me i am wrong.

 

[jordash]

When I started playing seriously I also played with experienced players. One of them, my buddy Sam gave me a beast to throw. At first I couldn't throw back hand, so I started throwing forearm. The beast worked well a few months, but soon I realized I was throwing harder than it could handle. I lost control of it so I began throwing back hand. Few months later I began tossing an orc and then wraith. I think the beast is good for a new player. Its a good intro/setup for faster more overstable discs. It worked for me anyway.

 

[aarikc17]

I would go with DX discs first just to try out things, and a lot cheaper (2:1) over Star

 

[Technohic]

I would go with DX discs first just to try out things, and a lot cheaper (2:1) over Star

Yes and I found I lost more when I was new and not as good, so cheaper the better then. Sometimes I think I should STILL take that advice.

 

[KMaC]

do you guys read the words you write.

have you ever thrown the katana?

For a noob, it is instant distace and easy to control. Any noob can instantly "plug into" a katana and find 30-40' over their teebird or Valkyrie. WITHOUT losing any control issues or problems.

INSTANT DISTANCE with ZERO affects of the boss or wraith hooking into bad spaces. yes, it's a "finesse driver" so with your teebird you can pick the patch of grass to land on, and with the katana, the drive WILL go straight and you can put the disc in the "general area" of where you intended it.

I'm watching it instantly change the playing games of many players on my home course. Yes, it's a fast disc, but its something a noob can use (albeit improperly) and instantly find a longer drive. I'm watching the 275' guys find over 300', the 300' guys find close to 350' and the 350' guys find the super long distances (for us) @ 400....all real "course" distance and not field distances.(Dont even get me started on what the forehand guys can do..................)

Ironically, it's a "bomber disc" that one of the god arms can blow our minds with..... but for the rest of us....

INSTANT DISTANCE. It's straight, only fades at the very end, and it's slightly wind resistant.

Throw it, tell me i am wrong.

I'm not saying it won't add 30', I'm just seeing if you need a new disc to throw that extra 30', you've got a problem.

Learn to throw. New plastic can only do so much for your game, and in my opinion 30' is really negligible.

 

[garublador]

p.s. I don't think that's what he meant though.

Actually, that is what I meant.

If you want a more reliable disc that's about the same stability (or can get there easily) and +/- 1 "speed" on the Innova scale you have the: Avenger, Orc, Valkyrie, Viking, XS, Wildcat, Crush, OLF, Starfire, Striker and probably a couple others that I'm forgetting.

 

[shoe59]

Actually, that is what I meant.

If you want a more reliable disc that's about the same stability (or can get there easily) and +/- 1 "speed" on the Innova scale you have the: Avenger, Orc, Valkyrie, Viking, XS, Wildcat, Crush, OLF, Starfire, Striker and probably a couple others that I'm forgetting.

What did you like about the old beast that is different in the new mold/plastic?

I have the avenger, orc, valk, xs, crush, starfire and none of them fly like the beast at all really. The closest would be the valkyrie imo, but the others are all more overstable. The beast has more glide than all of these discs and I love how straight it glides as well.

I agree with you that the others are "more reliable" -- but that's because they are all more overstable and therefore more predictable. When I pull out the beast I'm looking for a nice straight drive around 350-375 ft.

 

[discgolphinmafaukner]

Sorry if this has already been suggested, but I'd definitely invest in a practice basket for putting. It will pay dividends for your game.

 

[garublador]

What did you like about the old beast that is different in the new mold/plastic?

Predictable turn and reliable fade. I like knowing where my discs will land.

While the stabilities of the discs I mentioned are kind of all over the place, they're all "neutral" enough to work as distance drivers for those throwing over 330' or so without requiring a bunch of anhyzer to fly far.

You may be able to squeeze a bit more distance out of the Beast than those other discs on a good throw, but most people will have more good throws with any of those other discs.

 

[chiggins]

Interesting discussion! Though I disagree with the Katana recommendation (sorry man, heh), djjeremiahj's comments about getting people out to have fun instead of initiating them into a monastery right off the bat make a good point.

The recommendations I've had up to now for people starting out have all been sort of the flip side of the "What would you tell yourself when you first started" thread. And, in fact, there were experienced players that told me, "you've got too many discs, and those are too fast." I respected their advice, but I didn't always follow it and I really wanted to play around with faster stuff.

So when I think about it from that perspective, I think the "throw a Roc until you can get it out to X distance" is good advice for someone that's been bit with the bug and is ready to rebuild the fundamentals. Before I was at that point, distance really wasn't what made me feel like I was getting it. What really got me happy at first was having drivers that I could throw flat, and then when I could get them to do a little high-speed turn and glide, I felt like I'd really gotten a taste of what it was like to know a disc.

I think I had an 11x Cheetah that was the first disc I could throw on a narrow fairway with any confidence, and a DX Gazelle was the first I could get a consistent S-flight out of. At that point in my game, a heavy Star Teebird would've sufficed as a Firebird and a 170 Glow Eagle was a reasonably consistent distance driver. Everything faster than that I was spraying everywhere and getting frustrated with.

 

[okiebullgod]

FWIW, I like the Katana, but it hasn't surpassed my Wraiths or Destroyers in distance. Granted, I've only thrown a handfull of rounds with it, but I don't think it's a magic disc. Also, I agree that a champ beast is long, straight, and money.

 

[skurf]

The only "add instant distance" disc that I've found is the Surge SS, but it beats in quite fast and becomes uncontrollable after a few months. Also, I don't think it would add any distance to someone throwing less than 250', although if you're throwing around 350' (like I was when I bought it) then it very well could add 20'-30', which it did for me. After it got beat-in, it was still going about 30' further than my other distance drivers, but often times it would be 100-150' laterally off target...or it could be sitting right under the basket for a birdie that no other disc in my bag could reach. In the end, I'm glad I finally lost that disc because it was too tempting not to throw it because of the potential distance, but completely unpredictable and usually added strokes to my game. I'm looking forward to trying out the Katana as it seems to have similar qualities to a Surge SS, but I just hope it doesn't become as flippy as fast as the Surge SS does.

 

[okiebullgod]

Skurf, I only have the Lemon Lake star Katanas. One is 167 and the other is 175. The lighter one is white and not very stable at all and the heavy orange one has a big noticeable fade at the end of it's flight. You never know, but I thought I'd throw my experience out there and hope it helps. I love the Surge SS also, but it does like to stay turned over past 350 or so. Not sure I'd compare their flights though. The heavier Katana has way too much fade to be surge ss like, but the turn is similar, just lots faster.

 

[Sloan]

deff get a banshee, it was one of my firsts discs and i just picked up a champ banshee. it has saved me alot of times.

 

[Steal Your Face]

I've had great success with my Champion Panther and Star Mako so far. Trying to stay away from drivers, but i have been throwing my Gateway Apache, Champion Orc, and Champion Beast, hard not to ha. I'm not really liking my Star Aviar Driver tho for some reason, I've watched several putting videos and follow what they say. Its like the Aviar just drops so fast. I was throwing my buddy's Star Dart and liked it alot more. Any other suggetstions for a putter? Might have been the grams, my Aviar is 175 his Dart was 168.

 

[mashnut]

The dart is a faster disc, so it makes sense that you feel like the aviar drops quickly. You may want to try the dx aviar putt and approach, it is less overstable and will feel like it has more glide in putting range. Also, try some different putting styles, it took me a while for me to find something that let me get enough power while still having good accuracy.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Aviars bugged me at the start too, couldn't stand mine for a couple years until I developed a lot of spin and a clean throw. I went to a Magnet when I was starting out but sooner or later I'd bang it off a tree and the disc would instantly change flight forever, you might wanna check one out.

You could be onto something with the weight... from the sounds of it you have all max weight except the 150 Valkyrie, have you tried throwing something around 160g -165g? It's easier to learn the disc when you're not fighting the weight. If the dart feels good get one, its fast and less stable, I think it flies like a Magic (I love the Magic). I had a heck of a time with 150s, too much arm not enough technique to control them; anything above 170g they all flew the same.. HYZER with lots o fade.

POWER TO THE PANTHER!!!! I loved that thing til I had the power to find it's fickle turnover side but if you can dance on the fine edge of control you will get almost driver distance with it stay with it!!! Check out the Champion Panther thread too!

Avenger SS is poop in the wind, tricky to control (Especially in FlX and ESP) and flies a lot like a Panther (but less predictable), you hope you have appropriately calculated enough hyzer (45 to 75 degrees) when you launch it that it won't spin off anhyzer. The Roadrunner is somewhere between a Leopard and an Avenger SS, it'll hold a turn with good glide, should fade if thrown flat, it's made as a roller disc so beware, I think it's a wider Leopard.

I've got a Z Surge SS and I haven't experienced any predictability problems with it, had a love/hate with one in FlX, if a Katana flies like the Surge SS it might be worth considering getting yourself a lighter disc. A couple of friends that only play 4 times a year love playing with my Surge SS, I'm rarely allowed to put it back in the bag, they like it for putting too. Everyone pushes the Teebirds like Jesus made it himself but the truth is unless you get one sweetly broken in (like someone'll part with that) then you've got a long couple months ahead of you. Valkryies are good, if it feels too stable and so does the Beast something on the understable end of the chart could help.

Cheers

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Anyone else think the Roadrunners a good starting driver? it has the same flight pattern as a Leopard just more glide.

Furthermore if you are making a wish list for the future... Avengers in Z and Flx behave more stable than in elite X Avenger which nothing flies like! Same kind of hyzer flip to tunnel shot action as Panther. My 165 Z Avenger fades more than my 169 Z Surge. Z plastic is faster and more stable, X or DX is more glidey.

I love my old 164 Surge (usually 172g) when I'm playin with a driver & putter it'll do anything, good distance, nice S curves or a straight tunnel drive. I cannot advocate them enough they a more predictable Max distance driver since you can bank on the S curve, I'd even call it a Teebird on Roids.. with rocket thrusters attached.. Good luck throwing one for a year or so though!

 

[garublador]

Anyone else think the Roadrunners a good starting driver? it has the same flight pattern as a Leopard just more glide.

They're also more nose angle sensitive and require more speed than a Leopard to get that glide. Basically, they're harder to throw, which can make learning difficult.

As for the Aviar, it's partially the weight but the nose angle of the putt can make a big difference, too. Nose down putts will drop a lot faster than flat or nose up putts.

Steal Your Face, I'd really consider slower drivers. If you're working on pushing mids out to 300' and putters out to 250' then messing with the faster drivers probably won't hurt, but it won't help much either. Slower drivers will help.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Everyone is probably right with a leopard, it's an excellent staple in the bag but I like to be different. I was thinking the angle sensitivity and glide would work well for someone that's played ultimate while still encouraging good release habits. It's not the most forgiving disk like a Stalker, but it does follow the line that you put it on, and could be more fun than the frustration that breaking in a Teebird could cause. Or trying to figure out a Beast.. I remember when that was a "beast" and not a straight comfortable approach driver neither was a Valkryie.. and the breaking in period... I hate waiting.

For the record I am certainly not disputing the importance of putters or midrange practice, it is vital to the game to gain control and distance, but I also remember learning better putting from better driving, and vice versa but having max weight monsters in the bag is discouraging for noobs, it doesn't hurt to muck with understable drivers as much as it hurts to learn to tilt and torque the stable ones. There's so many generic discs to choose from.. a little faster, a little more turn, the Roadrunner has some fond beginner memories for me... like a Scorpion lol. Better technology exists to be used.

And Steal Your Face.. find a putter that works, buy a couple of them same weight it makes practice a lot easier... just make sure it doesn't say discraft on the top... check out gateway at least they are capable of original thoughts.