Hitting the Ace Pot in Doubles

[DatRedDude]

I split ace pots 50/50 i also give 10% of all winnings back to the local club and/or private course owner upon hitting ace. Raised a gambler and 10% always go back to the house.

My dubs strategy is run everything, at the end of the day i am there to have fun, score doesn't dictate the amount of fun i have.

 

[gdub58]

Maybe it's a Wisconsin thing, but I too don't expect half of an ace pot if my partner hit an ace. This happened to me last year at a random dubs weekly league which was not PDGA sanctioned. My partner hit the ace I was pumped, he got the money at the end and I didn't want or expect any. He took the cash, and did offer to buy me a drink which I took him up on but not once did I expect anything from him.

I hear you all playing strategy and all with one guy trying to play a little more safe and I'm not super smart with PDGA rules but what if it's a random dubs tourney and you end up with a partner who is either awful and can never play it a little smarter, or you're with someone like my younger brother who is just beginning the sport and is 12 years old. If the better player who is pretty decent hits the ace I don't think it should have to be split.

I will say though if I'm in a dubs tourney or anything and hit an ace I will at least offer something at a minimum. But I also wouldn't have the mentality that I need to split 50/50 or even 60/40, it would be however I feel at the moment I guess. Maybe I'm the bad guy though.

Your "what if" reminded me of what happened three years ago in the weekly doubles event I attend. I hit two aces that season, and in both cases I had a 13-14 year old kid as my partner (two different kids). In the first case, I split it with him, and you would have thought he won the lottery (his half was $60). His reaction alone was well worth it.

In the second case, after the round I was preparing to split it with the kid, and the guy running it told me my partner had not paid into the ace pot, so I didn't split it with him. I kind of felt bad, but fair is fair - if you don't pay in you shouldn't be rewarded. Of course, he paid into the ace pool every time after that.

Point is, it shouldn't matter whether your partner is more or less capable of hitting an ace. And, as weak as I might think it is to not split, sizing up your partner before the round and then deciding not to split based on your assessment of their lack of skill is downright slimy...

I'm also baffled by those who say "well, I'd offer my partner something". Why? Either you are of the belief that it is all yours or you split it. Sure, it's your money so you can do what you want with it, but why give them anything? Guilty conscience? Then you should have agreed to split in the first place.

Let me be clear - I will not try to talk you into a split, and when I ask if you split before the round (which I always do) and you say no that's just fine. But doubles is a partnership, and I believe in a partnership we share the rewards from what happens while we are partners as long as we invested equally in the game...

 

[J-Bright]

Your "what if" reminded me of what happened three years ago in the weekly doubles event I attend. I hit two aces that season, and in both cases I had a 13-14 year old kid as my partner (two different kids). In the first case, I split it with him, and you would have thought he won the lottery (his half was $60). His reaction alone was well worth it.

In the second case, after the round I was preparing to split it with the kid, and the guy running it told me my partner had not paid into the ace pot, so I didn't split it with him. I kind of felt bad, but fair is fair - if you don't pay in you shouldn't be rewarded. Of course, he paid into the ace pool every time after that.

Point is, it shouldn't matter whether your partner is more or less capable of hitting an ace. And, as weak as I might think it is to not split, sizing up your partner before the round and then deciding not to split based on your assessment of their lack of skill is downright slimy...

I'm also baffled by those who say "well, I'd offer my partner something". Why? Either you are of the belief that it is all yours or you split it. Sure, it's your money so you can do what you want with it, but why give them anything? Guilty conscience? Then you should have agreed to split in the first place.

Let me be clear - I will not try to talk you into a split, and when I ask if you split before the round (which I always do) and you say no that's just fine. But doubles is a partnership, and I believe in a partnership we share the rewards from what happens while we are partners as long as we invested equally in the game...

My point was more because many brought up a hypothetical where one guy play it safe so that guy has a disadvantage to getting the ace, and my point is I completely agree with you that on almost any dubs tourney/league I'm there to have fun and run almost anything, but for those trying to have a strategy which may not allow someone to run it, that is their team choice and shouldn't play into whether or not you split with them or not. Saying simply "my partner was the one who played it safe so he/she deserves half" is a false statement to me especially when playing with someone who might not have the skill to play safe. I was not ripping on people's skill and to pay them or not based on that. I love giving away discs that i think will better help people's game like my little brother who isn't good at all.
Also I don't think you should HAVE to pay 50/50 or 60/40 if that is your mentality. Why is not not a good enough gesture to give something versus giving nothing, and who decides that someone who doesn't give anything is a bad person or a jerk? An ace as mentioned is an individual thing. To me partnership or not has nothing to do with it. Everyone can think I'm a jerk but I'm coming from the standpoint of my partner hit an ace and I did not once expect him to give me a dime of it and he didn't really and also there are others who agree with me so really it's just an opinion based question and no right or wrong answer just throwing in my two cents.

 

[ThrowBot]

[...] really it's just an opinion based question and no right or wrong answer just throwing in my two cents.

I think that's the long and short of it. I've never even heard of splitting an ace pot with your dubs partner prior to this thread, but apparently it's a regional thing. I can see the rationale either way, but splitting the pot feels weird to me. I don't know that I'd be comfortable taking money for an ace that I didn't hit. I'd be afraid of having this conversation:

"I won $50 playing disc golf today!"
"That's awesome! How?"
"My team got an ace."
"Congrats! That's great that you got an ace."
"No no no, I didn't get an ace. My team did."

Come to think of it, that would be just as awkward whether you hit the ace or not. Seriously tho, when people list their number of aces, are they counting any that their dubs partner hit??

 

[JC17393]

I look at splitting in the same way the 51 club is played. If you take $5 for an ace, you're in the club and you are obligated to pay it when you witness another ace. If you take a split of an ace pot from your partner's ace, you're obligated to split future aces with your partner. AS long as you never accept a split if offered, you're not obligated to give a split. A partner paid me half of his pot a long time ago, so now I insist on splitting any pots I hit with my partner.

I would never demand that my partner split his ace pot with me, though, just as I'd never demand to be paid $5 from every member of my group. But I'll take what's offered and be happy even if it's nothing.

To answer the last poster's last question, I barely remember my partners' aces at all. I know I've had partners ace and I've gotten a cut of pretty much all of them, but I couldn't count those times up if I wanted to. I can count all of my own aces, and who my partners were for any of them that came during a doubles round. They all got a 50/50 split of everything, even the 51 money. (btw, I refuse to take 51 money from a doubles partner for ace or metal)

 

[J-Bright]

Come to think of it, that would be just as awkward whether you hit the ace or not. Seriously tho, when people list their number of aces, are they counting any that their dubs partner hit??

I agree it would be strange either way and yea I'll take a $2 beer from a guy if he wants to talk about it after the round (since if it's PDGA sanctioned can't drink during) but aside from that I am turning down any money 100/100 times if i'm the person's partner and they ace it.

For those feeling the need to split, I completely understand it and don't think there is a thing wrong with it, but then if there's a raffle do you split with your partner? Why don't you split with everyone on the card since they played as much of a role as your partner did? Then do you split with everyone in the tournament since they all got in the ace pool that you are taking the money from?

Obviously those are rhetorical questions and I'm being a bit snarky, I just don't see where it ends, and why a guy is considered the jerk for hitting an ace which is an individual achievement and reward and wanting to keep the money to himself. On top of that you guys talk about always splitting ace pool, but I've heard at some places where the ace pot carries over so much that it was over like $3,000. I'd be curious how many of you would completely split 50/50 for that money. Obviously we'd all most likely be willing to give the partner some money but straight 50/50 for that I feel most would not do.

This is probably my last post on the subject as again it's all opinion and this is mine.

 

[Hampstead]

$3,000 ace? Yeah, I'm splitting it w/ my partner and probably giving a few hundred back into the ace pool. It's not like you're working a job and splitting your paycheck with your partner.

 

[DanJon]

I've never heard of anyone around here splitting the ace pot.

I am aware that many other regions do split though.

A couple things I always do after collecting ace pool moola, is to throw a couple bucks back into the ace pot and offer to buy beers after or bring some the following week.

 

[J-Bright]

I've never heard of anyone around here splitting the ace pot.

I am aware that many other regions do split though.

A couple things I always do after collecting ace pool moola, is to throw a couple bucks back into the ace pot and offer to buy beers after or bring some the following week.

See that is something exactly that I meant by "giving something" to them. Obviously not good enough for most people. Or maybe they are the over achievers?

Us people in Wisconsin must be the biggest jerks ever haha

 

[Consult20]

I've never heard of anyone around here splitting the ace...

Same here, another Wisconsinite who had never heard of splitting an ace pot before this thread, or giving any of it back to the club or ace pool.

One thing our club does that seems "odd" is every other week half of the paid in ace pool money for that week goes to the club! Huh? (Ace pool is an optional $1 to buy in each week) Has anyone else ever heard of that? Seems crazy to siphon off optional ace pool money to the club -- to me, the ace pot should be a separate thing.

For example, first week $30 paid into ace pool, ace pot is $30. Nobody hits an ace that week. Next week $32 is paid into ace pool, but half goes to the club so total ace pot is $48 and not $62! Is this the norm anywhere else?

 

[sisyphus]

Well, not in doubles, but in the Cincinnati club monthly events, the $2 optional ace pot is paid out to aces first, and if none are hit that day, we throw off for closest to pin, and the club pays half the ace pool, with the rest going to the club, which rolls that back into area course improvements & upgrades. It's pretty well understood ahead of time that that is the deal, and they've been doing it that way for decades.
ps: we've got some pretty nice courses out of it! :thmbup:
Most of the weekly doubles are run pretty independently of the club, and roll over the unclaimed ace pool to the next week (which of course brings out some mercenary attitudes if it doesn't get hit for a while...)

 

[JC17393]

Same here, another Wisconsinite who had never heard of splitting an ace pot before this thread, or giving any of it back to the club or ace pool.

One thing our club does that seems "odd" is every other week half of the paid in ace pool money for that week goes to the club! Huh? (Ace pool is an optional $1 to buy in each week) Has anyone else ever heard of that? Seems crazy to siphon off optional ace pool money to the club -- to me, the ace pot should be a separate thing.

For example, first week $30 paid into ace pool, ace pot is $30. Nobody hits an ace that week. Next week $32 is paid into ace pool, but half goes to the club so total ace pot is $48 and not $62! Is this the norm anywhere else?

I've heard of splitting ace pots with other things like a club course improvement fund or a charity. Personally, I've run 50/50 pots in which half goes to the event's charity no matter what, and if there are no aces, the charity gets the whole thing. No throw-offs, no carry-overs.

I think as long as whatever the plan is, it is made known to everyone ahead of time, there's no right or wrong to it. If a club wants to use it as a fund raiser, good for them as long as they're upfront about it.

 

[ThrowBot]

One thing our club does that seems "odd" is every other week half of the paid in ace pool money for that week goes to the club! Huh? (Ace pool is an optional $1 to buy in each week) Has anyone else ever heard of that? Seems crazy to siphon off optional ace pool money to the club -- to me, the ace pot should be a separate thing.

For example, first week $30 paid into ace pool, ace pot is $30. Nobody hits an ace that week. Next week $32 is paid into ace pool, but half goes to the club so total ace pot is $48 and not $62! Is this the norm anywhere else?

Yeah, we skim the ace pot into club and/or course funds when it hits a pre-determined cap limit. This is typically $100-$150 (for a league ace pot that is $1-2 per day to play), and once the ace pot is "capped" we also pay out whatever was paid in the day of the ace plus the cap limit.

Depending on league turnout, it can take a month or more to reach the cap limit. Hopefully the ace pot is never capped because we're collectively hitting aces on a regular basis. :thmbup:

 

[Consult20]

Thanks for the replies, in our particular situation nobody I talked to was aware of the pot skimming to the club. The only way I found out was by inquiring about the discrepancy between the weekly ace pot and how many players paid in the prior week. I knew what the pot should have been for the following week, but it didn't add up to that amount.

I have no problem with the club getting it's share of the weekly entry fees, it's helping put in another course. It just seems that the optional ace pool should be its own entity -- but maybe I'm just looking at it too simplistically.

 

[ThrowBot]

Thanks for the replies, in our particular situation nobody I talked to was aware of the pot skimming to the club. The only way I found out was by inquiring about the discrepancy between the weekly ace pot and how many players paid in the prior week. I knew what the pot should have been for the following week, but it didn't add up to that amount.

I have no problem with the club getting it's share of the weekly entry fees, it's helping put in another course. It just seems that the optional ace pool should be its own entity -- but maybe I'm just looking at it too simplistically.

Yeah, making sure that everyone knows where their money goes is key. Typically when people buy into the ace pot they also ask how much is in it, so that's a good time to say "Well the pot was capped at $100 after noone hit it, plus 15 people have already paid in this week, so payout will be at least $115."

 

[Consult20]

Yeah, making sure that everyone knows where their money goes is key. Typically when people buy into the ace pot they also ask how much is in it, so that's a good time to say "Well the pot was capped at $100 after noone hit it, plus 15 people have already paid in this week, so payout will be at least $115."

Totally agree, transparency is the key and it all should, ideally, be spelled out in the weekly dubs flyer that's posted.

And that leads into where the club money goes, who decides where it goes (is it voted on by members or is it a dictatorship where one person decides), current balance of club funds and how often (if ever) this is shared with club members, etc. -- but that's probably another thread.

 

[ERicJ]

I think that's the long and short of it. I've never even heard of splitting an ace pot with your dubs partner prior to this thread, but apparently it's a regional thing. I can see the rationale either way, but splitting the pot feels weird to me. I don't know that I'd be comfortable taking money for an ace that I didn't hit. I'd be afraid of having this conversation:

"I won $50 playing disc golf today!"
"That's awesome! How?"
"My team got an ace."
"Congrats! That's great that you got an ace."
"No no no, I didn't get an ace. My team did."

Come to think of it, that would be just as awkward whether you hit the ace or not. Seriously tho, when people list their number of aces, are they counting any that their dubs partner hit??

So when your doubles team cashes do you and your partner count the number of your shots vs. your partners shots and split your winnings accordingly?

Throwbot: "We shot 54 today and cashed for $100. But we used 34 of my shots and only 20 of your shots, so I'm taking $63 of our winnings and you get $37."

IMO, that's what you should be doing if you want the Ace Pot all to yourself. Doubles is a team event and you share the strategy, work, and rewards.

Of course that assumes that your partner did actually buy into the Ace Pot. Not buying in implies no interest in the Ace Pot winnings.

For those feeling the need to split, I completely understand it and don't think there is a thing wrong with it, but then if there's a raffle do you split with your partner? Why don't you split with everyone on the card since they played as much of a role as your partner did? Then do you split with everyone in the tournament since they all got in the ace pool that you are taking the money from?

Those may be rhetorical, but they're also not relevant. A raffle is not a team event. The other team(s) on your card definitely do not have as much of a role as your partner; you & your partner should be strategizing your shots.

 

[J-Bright]

To me an ace is an individual achievement though not a group achievement. What happens if the person who aces would win a vehicle, do you just cut it in half?

Meh it's all opinion and I see both sides of it. I don't play a ton of leagues and/or tourneys but every single one that I have with dubs and aces hit, not a single time was it split which to me just doesn't mean a person is a jerk or is inconsiderate or is doing it wrong, it just means he/she gets the money he/she won and from there he/she can do whatever he/she wants with it.

Being PC can be annoying when typing lol

 

[DavidSauls]

Same here, another Wisconsinite who had never heard of splitting an ace pot before this thread, or giving any of it back to the club or ace pool.

One thing our club does that seems "odd" is every other week half of the paid in ace pool money for that week goes to the club! Huh? (Ace pool is an optional $1 to buy in each week) Has anyone else ever heard of that? Seems crazy to siphon off optional ace pool money to the club -- to me, the ace pot should be a separate thing.

For example, first week $30 paid into ace pool, ace pot is $30. Nobody hits an ace that week. Next week $32 is paid into ace pool, but half goes to the club so total ace pot is $48 and not $62! Is this the norm anywhere else?

For many years in the early 2000s in Columbia, SC, the ace pool was a weekly matter and unwon ace pools went to the club.

Now, we were playing Earlewood, a very aceable course, so it's not like rolling over the pool would have produced huge payouts down the line.

But over time, we raised a good bit of money for the club that way, which was put to good use. Nobody complained, because it was understood, and we'd been doing it that way from the beginning. (That was the club's only take----we didn't charge an extra dollar for the club, which is the way I think it's done there now).

 

[The Shide]

So when you get the CTP/LP prize, do you have joint custody of the prize with your partner?
"I'll have the DX Roc on Mondays, Wednesdays & Saturdays. You get it on Tuesdays, Thursdays & Fridays. It can rest on Sunday."
Just sayin'...