How are holes measured?

[Rastnav]

Curious if anyone can speak to this.

If a basket is tucked to the right on a par 3, with a gap you need to hit about 50 feet from the pad that aims 70 feet left of the pin, and then a wide open field after that, do you measure to the center of the gap, and then to the pin? I assume you don't use straight line distance to the pin?

I'm curious mostly because I parked a hole that the card says goes 280, which was 20 feet past my old PB drive (although a few holes earlier I did throw the same disc 320, as measured by UDisc, with a better pull.) I'm just wondering if that means I "found something" or it's just a quirk of how holes are measured.

Edit: And I see the forum is offering me some helpful threads, that seem to basically mean "who knows, it depends on how the people measuring your course did it".

 

[Armus Patheticus]

Curious if anyone can speak to this.

If a basket is tucked to the right on a par 3, with a gap you need to hit about 50 feet from the pad that aims 70 feet left of the pin, and then a wide open field after that, do you measure to the center of the gap, and then to the pin? I assume you don't use straight line distance to the pin?

I'm curious mostly because I parked a hole that the card says goes 280, which was 20 feet past my old PB drive (although a few holes earlier I did throw the same disc 320, as measured by UDisc, with a better pull.) I'm just wondering if that means I "found something" or it's just a quirk of how holes are measured.

Edit: And I see the forum is offering me some helpful threads, that seem to basically mean "who knows, it depends on how the people measuring your course did it".

"Who knows?" is mostly the correct answer. Some signs are very detailed, showing multiple lines with their particular distances, distances to particular landmarks, and so on. But this is rare. Besides this, many holes are measured with a wheel or gps, both of which are terribly imprecise. Happily, precision is not too important in this situation.

 

[Innova63]

Curious.... .. I'm just wondering if that means I "found something" or it's just a quirk of how holes are measured.


I would go with this thought

Edit: And I see the forum is offering me some helpful threads, that seem to basically mean "who knows, it depends on how the people measuring your course did it".

And yes on this too.

Just a thought...

 

[disco40]

It's crazy how people will put so much blood and sweat into creating a nice course, but then not do things like measure it properly, with straight-line distance and center-of-fairway distance, as well as measuring certain landmarks. It takes so much less time and effort than building a course, and it's such a useful bit of polish that will improve not just the course, but other courses whose designers and caretakers feel obligated to meet the standard.

 

[Martin Dewgarita]

I just make up numbers when I write up my scorecards... I have a pretty good "feel" for the course, so I have an idea of how long a hole plays, so I write down a number.

 

[Noill]

I use a wheel and follow the intended fairway.

 

[Casey 1988]

I can speak to 2 courses I was in the help on making, we used a wheel from South Dakota state Government for the State Park course Oahe Downstream course eventually name Powerhouse Ally when we went to do the alternate tee and checked the original 9 holes tee and same for the later holes now 12-17 18 is old 9. Then hole 5 is now hole 7, 2 extra holes got put in in front of then hole 5 with 4 being moved So that a longer tee could be made for 7 So we could have a full 18 as 2 holes thanks to old nearly dying cottonwood trees posed too much a liability in the orginal 9 not to mention hazard for the baskets getting crushed. We measured all the tee areas to the basket in the most obvious and easy path on the fairway minus hole 5 then now 7 using the way it is uses in Tournament with a mando around a big Cottonwood tree, before plants grew up in this spot there was a gap right before tree that could save 2-3 strokes if going in there. Now you can't go in the gap

Then for the holes at Steamboat Park (soon to formerly be 18 holes, might loose 4-5 holes due to a water treatment building) we used a city measuring wheel well the friend did borrow it and we measured Using the fairways easiest gap or obvious route for 95% except the two in the wood area as that was a big mess so bad we could barely get the basket in to test the 2 holes we wanted to make in those woods that had to be measured later on the then only line they had. These formerly tight holes have gotten opened up in 2017-2019 and soon in next 3-5 year to be part of the holes lost to the Water Treatment Building.

 

[Noill]

oof da... Casey, it's super hard to understand. I think you said wheel measure..?

 

[Rastnav]

Noill,

I think I understand what Casey was saying. On both those courses, on the 95% of the holes where it was possible, they just measured the total distance down the "obvious easy path on the fairway". They had to fudge on some holes because there wasn't an obvious easy fairway at the time they measured.

One time they measured with a wheel they had borrowed, the other time with something else, perhaps.

Some of those "as measured" lines aren't valid anymore, as the the various obstacles defining the fairway have changed (but, I assume, the holes haven't been remeasured.)

 

[Noill]

thanks!

We'll see if Case comes in to confirm/deny or add.

 

[Casey 1988]

oof da... Casey, it's super hard to understand. I think you said wheel measure..?

Yep for both, getting to do the holes the easiest most obvious route. making one hole at Poawerhouse Ally around a mandatory tree used for events at one point to prevent people from playing the gap that can shave 2-3 strokes off a persons score.

 

[Jay Dub]

I can speak to 2 courses I was in the help on making, we used a wheel from South Dakota state Government for the State Park course Oahe Downstream course

Then for the holes at Steamboat Park we used a city measuring wheel

This is about all that was needed.

I like you Casey but your posts are too long with unnecessary words and information that hide the points you're trying to make.

 

[armiller]

Curious if anyone can speak to this.

If a basket is tucked to the right on a par 3, with a gap you need to hit about 50 feet from the pad that aims 70 feet left of the pin, and then a wide open field after that, do you measure to the center of the gap, and then to the pin? I assume you don't use straight line distance to the pin?

I'm curious mostly because I parked a hole that the card says goes 280, which was 20 feet past my old PB drive (although a few holes earlier I did throw the same disc 320, as measured by UDisc, with a better pull.) I'm just wondering if that means I "found something" or it's just a quirk of how holes are measured.

Edit: And I see the forum is offering me some helpful threads, that seem to basically mean "who knows, it depends on how the people measuring your course did it".

There are many factors. Another thing to consider is new layouts. I remember my first ace at Kendall Indian Hammocks, hole 6. Tee sign says 218' or something, but the sign has been there for a while, and now there are two tees and three pin locations. In the end, the 218' was actually "right" because I was throwing from the original tee and to the basket placed at the original location.

I've been duped into poor shot selection multiple times (i.e. discing up or discing down) based on tee-sign distances or based on poor tee sign miscues (based on poor tee signs or based on course redesign without tee sign updates). In the end, there's no substitute for learning to estimate distances on your own or simply walking forward to view baskets on longer holes.

And based on my experience, most tee signs "attempt" to give a distance directly to the basket from the tee, except where there is a very sharp dogleg.

And this is why elite courses often separate themselves from the crowd by providing excellent tee signs or even additional distance queues in fairways or to course landmarks.

This is about all that was needed.

I like you Casey but your posts are too long with unnecessary words and information that hide the points you're trying to make.

It's a good initiation to DGCR...

 

[Innova63]

This is about all that was needed.

I like you Casey but your posts are too long with unnecessary words and information that hide the points you're trying to make.

I think we found a translator/editor for Casey's posts!!





Unfortunately it doesn't pay anything, but our appreciation.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

I just make up numbers when I write up my scorecards... I have a pretty good "feel" for the course, so I have an idea of how long a hole plays, so I write down a number.

That's awesome! I'm lazy and inaccurate.. Heavy on the lazy, I got a laser rangefinder last year with the "pin lock" and I still haven't measured my course... hahaha f###

 

[curmudgeonDwindle]

The historical precedent from the golf with a capital 'G' is thus:

Holes should be measured from the center of the tee to the center of the green following the line of play, which is the center of the fairway; this is also a suggestion to golfers about the best way to play the hole.

 

[aphilso1]

I use a wheel and follow the intended fairway.

This seems to be the most common method I've seen, which has its flaws. It only works if you are throwing on a hole that is perfectly flat, otherwise it will overstate the distance to the basket. It's better than nothing, so thank you for putting in the effort to measure in some manner!

That being said, I think this is the root cause of why so many people have an inflated view of how far they can throw. People think "well, I can reach that one 400' hole with my driver, so 400' must be how far I can throw." This is flawed logic, because it is assuming tee signs are accurate. I know I was in for a rude awakening the first time I threw on a football field with actual yardage markers. And an equally rude awakening the first time I played a course that had markers resembling the actual distance to the baskets.

 

[Noill]

This seems to be the most common method I've seen, which has its flaws. It only works if you are throwing on a hole that is perfectly flat, otherwise it will overstate the distance to the basket. It's better than nothing, so thank you for putting in the effort to measure in some manner!

That being said, I think this is the root cause of why so many people have an inflated view of how far they can throw. People think "well, I can reach that one 400' hole with my driver, so 400' must be how far I can throw." This is flawed logic, because it is assuming tee signs are accurate. I know I was in for a rude awakening the first time I threw on a football field with actual yardage markers. And an equally rude awakening the first time I played a course that had markers resembling the actual distance to the baskets.

that works at mine... there are elevation shifts, but it wont be enough to skew it too much. I have that info somewhere (elevation), but it really is not much. Also, water carries will be guestimates with a wheel method. I do have a range finder that is pretty accurate. Haven't used it though...

 

[Armus Patheticus]

that works at mine... there are elevation shifts, but it wont be enough to skew it too much. I have that info somewhere (elevation), but it really is not much. Also, water carries will be guestimates with a wheel method. I do have a range finder that is pretty accurate. Haven't used it though...

A sighting compass, 100' tape, and super basic trigonometry can be used to accurately measure water carries, or super long undulating holes that really make a wheel lie.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

oof da... Casey, it's super hard to understand. I think you said wheel measure..?

That's just par for the Casey.