How big of a problem are foot faults?

[Broken Shoulder]

Lie
The spot on the playing surface behind the marker, upon which the player takes a stance in accordance with the rules. It is a line 30 centimeters in length extending back along the line of play from the rear edge of the marker disc. The lie for the first throw on a hole is the teeing area. A drop zone is also a lie.

 

[Chromezero]

Pretty sure its just over the diameter length of a driver behind the marker on a straight line to the hole. 9 or 11 inches....

This sounds logical and may be the general idea. However, a couple of things to consider...

E. If a large solid obstacle prevents the player from taking a legal stance behind the marker disc, the player may instead mark the lie by placing a mini marker disc on the playing surface immediately behind that obstacle on the line of play.

QA 45: Crooked Straddle
Q: A player in my group marked his disc and then placed his right foot about ten inches behind the mini. He then placed his left foot closer to the hole than his right, but not closer than the mini. Is that a legal stance?
A: Yes. He has no supporting points closer to the hole than his marker, and one supporting point on the lie behind the marker. It may look a little strange, but it's perfectly legal. Applicable Rules: 802.04 Throwing from a Stance.

Both of these seem to suggest that as long as I'm standing "behind" my marked lie, I'm good.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Lie: The spot on the playing surface behind the marker, upon which the player takes a stance in accordance with the rules. It is a line 30 centimeters in length extending back along the line of play from the rear edge of the marker disc. The lie for the first throw on a hole is the teeing area. A drop zone is also a lie.

http://www.pdga.com/rules/official-rules-disc-golf/800-introduction/80002-definitions

 

[Chromezero]

Lie
It is a line 30 centimeters in length extending back along the line of play from the rear edge of the marker disc.

Thanks for the info, that's a pretty specific measurement. You posted while I was typing as well...

 

[ToddL]

I think there should be a bigger emphasis on making sure you actually hit your lie. I pay attention to it when I throw, and sometimes I have to pay so much attention that I have to pay less attention to my shot. If it's a tricky lie and I don't feel I can hit the spot with a run-up, then I have to throw a standstill. The rules never say you're guaranteed to have an easy run-up.

But I'm still a wuss about calling them, and I justify it to myself with lame excuses like "well it didn't help him anyway". And I shouldn't justify it like that. If I have to pay attention to my lie, you should have to pay attention to yours.

I heard a surprisingly pithy statement at a players' meeting a few months ago when the TD was making a plea to make sure we all follow the rules as accurately as we can: "The rules aren't there to punish you; the rules are there to make sure everyone is playing the same game."
One card might call foot faults to the inch. The next card might let their players get away with missing their mark by 6 inches. The next card might let their players miss by a whole foot. And that's pretty much completely unfair. The only fair way to do it is to follow the rules to the letter.
Kinda the same thing with tap-ins during more casual play. One group might call everything within 2' a gimme where another group doesn't make you putt anything inside 10'. Where do you draw the line for a gimme putt? How about drawing no line and making everyone putt every putt.

Perhaps I'm missing it, but I've never been able to find an actual rule that specifies how close you need to be to the marker. All I can find is that you need to be behind the marker, relative to the basket, and can't touch the marker until after you release your throw. I think we see so many foot faults because this isn't specified, causing a lot of players to think they need to be on top of the marker.

Most of the rules in the PDGA rulebook state that you have be "touching the lie" or "making contact with the lie" or something like that. Which, of course, means we need to figure out how they define "lie".

http://www.pdga.com/rules/official-rules-disc-golf/800-introduction/80002-definitions
Lie
The spot on the playing surface behind the marker, upon which the player takes a stance in accordance with the rules. It is a line 30 centimeters in length extending back along the line of play from the rear edge of the marker disc. The lie for the first throw on a hole is the teeing area. A drop zone is also a lie.

Line of Play
The imaginary line on the playing surface extending from the center of the target through the center of the marker disc and beyond.

 

[knettles]

I've known about the 30 cm rule, but was wondering if it's legal in tournaments to just leave your disc where it is without flipping it or placing a mini in front? Since that's basically where the lie is if you stand 30 cm behind your mini.

 

[Stardoggy]

I've known about the 30 cm rule, but was wondering if it's legal in tournaments to just leave your disc where it is without flipping it or placing a mini in front? Since that's basically where the lie is if you stand 30 cm behind your mini.

Yes, you can use your thrown disc to set your lie (Assuming you're not picking it up and throwing it), or you can use a marker in front of that disc.

Flipping your disc is illegal.

 

[dbanderson]

I've known about the 30 cm rule, but was wondering if it's legal in tournaments to just leave your disc where it is without flipping it or placing a mini in front? Since that's basically where the lie is if you stand 30 cm behind your mini.

You have the option to leave the disc or use a marker and you get 30cm behind whatever you use for your marker either way.

 

[Steve West]

A few times per round. It's a three-step process:

See it.
Call it.
Get "overruled" because there isn't one other person on the card who is brave enough to be rude to the thrower or cares or knows the rules - even enough to know the first call cannot be overruled.

 

[Dan Ensor]

I've known about the 30 cm rule, but was wondering if it's legal in tournaments to just leave your disc where it is without flipping it or placing a mini in front? Since that's basically where the lie is if you stand 30 cm behind your mini.

You can use a thrown disc as a marker disc if it doesn't have to be relocated (ob, stuck in tree, etc.). You can't stand on the disc, though. The unmoved disc is the same as a mini-marker (both are the "marker"). You typically have the option of moving your lie ~30cm closer to the target by placing a mini-marker.

Which is very helpful on rocky courses, where your disc might be sitting on a terrible lie, with a good lie behind it (no mini, get the good lie); or your disc might have a good lie underneath it, with a bad lie behind it (place the mini, take the good lie).

 

[bballr4567]

A few times per round. It's a three-step process:

See it.
Call it.
Get "overruled" because there isn't one other person on the card who is brave enough to be rude to the thrower or cares or knows the rules - even enough to know the first call cannot be overruled.

You sure about that?

 

[bballr4567]

You sure about that?

Can't edit but realized it was pretty ambiguous worded.

I meant having no one else call it.

 

[Steve West]

"A rules violation that results in a warning may be called by any player in the group."

"A player shall receive a warning for the first stance violation in the round."

Where I get overruled is when I say the player can't use the throw:

"Any throw made from an illegal stance is disregarded. A re-throw must be taken from the original lie, prior to subsequent play by others in the group."

That's when the rest of the group votes to cancel the warning.

 

[KniceZ]

Can you take a stance more than 30cm behind the marker disc? Someone once told me you can move back up to 10ft. This person specifically brought this up when I was blocked behind a tree.

But the only thing I can find in the rules is up to 5m relief from obstacles that prevents taking a stance (803.01B) not because of an obstacle in front of the lie.

 

[DiscLoser1]

Can you take a stance more than 30cm behind the marker disc? Someone once told me you can move back up to 10ft. This person specifically brought this up when I was blocked behind a tree.

But the only thing I can find in the rules is up to 5m relief from obstacles that prevents taking a stance (803.01B) not because of an obstacle in front of the lie.

I've heard the 10' relief rule in casual play as well, but there is nothing in the rules granting relief from trees (pros take no tree relief) only fallen branches and park equipment. I think the 10' rule is more of a friendly rule or perhaps a rule from back in the day that was eliminated when rules became standardized?

I imagine a TD could add a 10' relief variance in random tourneys, which also might add to the myth.

In casual play, I encourage people to take relief so they dont smack trees with their hands on their follow-throughs.

 

[scarpfish]

I would venture if foot faults were called as often as they occur, there's not a soul amongst us who would be without sin.

The TD of a B-tier I attended here a couple of weeks back gave a brief speech about some of the differences between everyday play and the more formalized rule set of a sanctioned event. They really should do more stuff like that at players meetings.

 

[Steve West]

Can you take a stance more than 30cm behind the marker disc? Someone once told me you can move back up to 10ft. This person specifically brought this up when I was blocked behind a tree.

But the only thing I can find in the rules is up to 5m relief from obstacles that prevents taking a stance (803.01B) not because of an obstacle in front of the lie.

"802.03 Marking The Lie
E. If a large solid obstacle prevents the player from taking a legal stance behind the marker disc, the player may instead mark the lie by placing a mini marker disc on the playing surface immediately behind that obstacle on the line of play."

There is no 10 feet. In fact, all the rules are metric, so anyone who says "feet" obviously is not correctly quoting the rules.

 

[KniceZ]

I suspected they were just converting from 3m - (about 1 inch difference)

After rereading 803.01B it does say - If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the target, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie. So this matches 802.03E.

So this must have been a casual play variation.

 

[KniceZ]

If the previously thrown disc is used rather than a marker disc - do you still get 30 cm from the rear edge?

 

[Aim For The Chains]

yep. minis are hard to hit that perfect spot really with a run-up. Its why I like to carry 2 of each mold around that I like to drive with.