Looking at how a lot of people define arrive at and determine lie in that thread, I'm not sure how anyone can throw in 30 seconds. Even though I'm probably throwing within 10 seconds of when I actually take a stance, it is probably more like a minute or a minute and a half from when I set my bag down.
...and it really isn't fair because everyone else gets a couple of minutes to choose a stance/line/disc.
Your 30 seconds starts when you address your lie. Forgive me for strong words here, but listening to people on facebook for the last however many days have 0 clue...
I cannot understand the inability of people to figure out how this works.
Addressing your lie isn't looking at it.
When its your turn to throw, and you address it's basically your turn to go.
So, you're close to your lie, or you've directly addressed it, put back next to disc. Getting disc out. etc.
There is nothing in the rules that states you cannot stand back 10feet or so and think about it and analyze. It's when you start faffing about that it's a problem.
There is plenty of time in normal golf play to make shots. It's just when there has been plenty of time for that person to make all those decisions, then they address their lie and do the whole routine over and over again.
The other issue comes from players letting themselves be distracted by conversation, phone and so many other things while playing, vs focusing on their game, conditions, slope and all the other things while walking to their disc.
I, however, do believe the rules are written poorly. Very poorly. But this isn't rocket science either.
My natural pace is quick enough that I never felt rushed. If anything, I need to learn to slow down, focus, and take a breath when I putt.
The slow pace of play is part of the reason I hardly ever play tournaments any more.
I like playing fast myself as well. I can adjust better to slower players now than I used to, but slower players tend to put me in a "where did I throw my disc" problem more than anything. It's harder to stay in any sort of mind space when the dude jumps on the tee and does 15 practice swings then duffs it in the woods.
I very seldom see anyone taking a couple of minutes to choose a stance/line/disc. Sometimes finding a stance takes a while when players are in difficult positions. I would guess that at least 75% of the time players can tell you what disc they are going to throw next as soon as they see their prior shot land. I play with one guy who is an exception to this because he has the attention span of a squirrel. Most delays in the MP50 groups I play in are because someone is in the middle of telling a story of some sort.
Watch out for the old timers.
"Remember that time we all went to X tournament in Y City and took all their money?" The OG's here did this stuff ALL the time. hahahaha
And I play with them.
But one thing about all the OG's, put some money up, not many stories gonna be told, but hold on, they do not screw around. they throw frisbee's and go.
No faffing.
30 seconds to make a throw is a lot longer than some of you think it is. Try timing yourself sometime.
I think part of the issue is people have no clue how long 30 seconds is.
But as well, they have no clue what it means to "address their lie"
As in, they dont know when that 30 seconds starts.
And because the rules are so poorly written, there isn't a good definition of it unless you really understand what defining your lie is.
Maybe I should make a video on this?
For somebody who's played a lot of sports and golf, addressing the lie, or addressing the ball, all these other things, they are clearly defined to me. I guess for some it could be a bit of a struggle, because there isn't really a black and white written definition of it.
I know this is kind of the opposite of the typical discussion.
First, everyone on all of my cards have been great. And no one has said anything about my pace of play. I probably play slower than most, but I'm not too worried about going over 30 seconds. However, everybody seems to talk about Nikko and Gannon Buhr and TD's talk about slower players at every player's meeting and someone seems to always bring it up while waiting to start our round. So it is kind of a concern in the back of my mind, especially since the excessive time rules are so abstract.
I've played with a lot of guys that play really fast. I had an incident where I threw off my tee and as I was watching my shot, I stepped backwards and stepped on the foot of the guy throwing after me and rolled my ankle a bit. I've played with a couple of guys that are 50 feet down the fairway and almost jogging before the last person's tee shot has landed and will let go of their approach shot within 2 or 3 seconds of when the previous player's shot has landed.
This is sort of exacerbated by the fact that I've been on the card with much higher rated players and the biggest deficiency in my game is distance. So I'm frequently last on the box and then throwing my 2nd shot first. I was on a card a while back where I was rated 100 points lower than everyone else and though I played a pretty good round (I shot +8 and everyone else was +4 or +5), I threw back to back shots on probably 14 holes.
So how do you manage the pace when the rest of the card is basically standing at your shot and you are grabbing your bag back at the tee? I know that you are supposed to think about your shot as you are walking to it, but you frequently can't see your stance or what lines are available until you get to your disc. And ideally, I want to stop and catch my breathe, take a sip of water, and so forth.
First, Play YOUR game.
If you got guys stepping on the tee box before your shot has hit the ground getting ready to throw. That's on them and poor form.
The floor is still yours essentially.
I think theoretically you could call a curtesy violation on them. but, that's a whole different topic.
Nobody is ever going to fuss much about a player who doesn't throw far if he throws it in the fairway, or knows where his disc is.
The only problem I ever have is when you play with people who continually walk passed your disc like you're not there. And that's not cool. It generally means that the other players have checked out on your play. But I've had them do it during rounds where I'm the longest drive and I Just waited 5-10 minutes for all the players better than me to chip out of the woods and upshot to the basket.
People get focused on their game and forget about playing responsibly sometimes.
As long as you're not taking 30 practice swings every shot every time the whole round then throwing. People wont be bothered much by time usage.
People generally don't like players who take 30 or more seconds EVERY shot. Ala, standing there doing practice swing after practice swing after practice swing.
You do that in a field.
If you're looking at 4 shots per hole on average for a golfer like this, that's 2 minutes per hole. times 18. We've lost a minimum of 30 minutes in the round waiting on 1 person every shot. When things are put into that perspective, people understand a bit more. But that's generally the person who people get upset at.
The best way to really give a clue as to somebody in this position.
If they play slow, but all their intentions seem deliberate towards the shot. ala, You're following a routine every time, even if its a bit slower than other people, but you throw a controlled shot.
Nobody will generally care.
If you just look lost in space and have an excessive routine that you continually do over and over and over every hole every shot, then you're the guy they are talking about at the players meeting.
Set up a camera, and do your FULL routine for your drive and upshot, and see how long it times out to be.
Sometimes our routines are us faffing about for no reason, and we can improve on our ability by tightening up our pre shot routine and pushing ourselves harder and end up throwing better from it as well.
I hope any of that made any bit of sense.
I slept in today and my brain is foggy.
