How do you handle fast play/feeling rushed in tournament/league play?

[ru4por]

I think most people that I've played with take at least 7 seconds to mark their disc and then clear out loose rocks/limbs/twigs/etc from underneath their footing.

Could be right. Man, how long does it take to knock down 100 putts in practice????

 

[autocrosscrx]

Could be right. Man, how long does it take to knock down 100 putts in practice????

I don't really practice that way. I try to get about 20-30 good putts in a 10 or 15 minute session. Anything more than that and I lose focus and it is detrimental.

 

[dmoore1998]

I'm going to ignore the 30 second rule...because if you're playing in a sanctioned tournament (or sanctioned league) and you want to be the guy that everyone hates playing with because you're slow but within the rules...that's your right. If that's your only concern, being within the rules, then that's pretty straightforward.

If your concern is how to make people happier with your pace of play, there are things you can do. I'm going to include things that guys I play with often do (I play with a lot of the same folks in leagues...it doesn't mean you do...but these guys are notoriously slow and say a lot of the same things you do in terms of their reasoning...so if it doesn't apply to you, then ignore it).

1. You're last on the tee...so then you should be ready to throw when it is your turn. That means at the teepad with disc in hand. It does not mean you're checking your phone or getting a drink while all 3 of the others throw, and then when it is your turn looking up like you teeing off is an unexpected event and just starting to think about what you're going to do.

2. You're the first to throw after teeing off. You probably don't need a drink of water when you get to your disc. You just had a break while everyone else was teeing off, and you're going to have another as soon as you throw and everyone else does their 2nd throws. Even under the quickest of circumstances, I can get a drink in the time it takes 1 player to throw...if yours is longer consider better accessibility for your drinks?

Again, I'm not sure which question you're really caring about in terms of "How do I stay within the rules?" vs "How do I keep players from not liking to play with me because of my speed?". Also consider that lots of people who play fast just play fast. It doesn't necessarily mean they care that you're playing a normal pace.

Timing is also situation-dependent in terms of how it is viewed. If you're taking 30 seconds from in the woods 1 time per round...nobody is going to think much of it. If you're taking 20 seconds on each tee when you're always the last guy to tee off...that's going to seem super slow to your card.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Could be right. Man, how long does it take to knock down 100 putts in practice????

If I tuck 4 discs behind my back and one in hand I can bomb off 5 putts in about 20 seconds... but I don't change my footing, I tune it in. Speed putting is good for a motion, but doesn't simulate real play.

If I remember right... I haven't done 100 putts a day now in a couple years.. I think it took about 15-20min (including time to retrieve)

How are you expected to enforce the 30 second rule without an accurate time measuring device? You better started bringing your cell phone with you.. If you feel it is everyone's duty to enforce all of the rules, you better whip out your stopwatch for every shot man I bet that would make you a notorious person to play with.... Maybe they will invent stopwatch mini markers and when you set it down it will start counting down and vibrate or ping at 30 seconds. We might need it as a penalty stroke defense mechanism... my clock said 34 seconds, mine said 29...

Massive amounts of sarcasm implied haha, disc golfing is the only break I get from my infernal cell phone. I don't even like scorecards.. I think birdie beads are pushing it.. I want more hippies! Where did all the hippies go!

 

[Dcinmd]

1. You're last on the tee...so then you should be ready to throw when it is your turn. That means at the teepad with disc in hand. It does not mean you're checking your phone or getting a drink while all 3 of the others throw, and then when it is your turn looking up like you teeing off is an unexpected event and just starting to think about what you're going to do.

If I am last on the tee I am deliberately taking my time, since way too often the other member on the card are trying to walked down the fairway in the middle of my tee shot.

If you're moving forward, I am standing still.

 

[Dcinmd]

Maybe they will invent stopwatch mini markers and when you set it down it will start counting down and vibrate or ping at 30 seconds.

Much more fun if it pop up a couple of feet like a jack in the box at the 30 second mark.

 

[Sheep]

I DO understand your hesitation. BUT, this is the very problem with this entire discussion. It is your responsibility to make ANY calls as they happen. It is not personal attack. It is a job you sign up for at registration. Getting calls against us, is also part of the understanding agreed to at sign up. It is to make the tournament play on a level playing field. It ensures fairness to EVERYONE. By ignoring calls, we are intentional giving a player an advantage.

Nailed it so hard, the nail went through the board into the next house.

This is what I'm concerned about, giving people a purchase point to chink apart the game that I love with bad understanding of rules, messing with the "fair" spirit of the game and bad attitudes.

I'm an occasional pro level threat 1 tourney out of 10, rest of the time I'm just a chucker. I don't take it too serious, I don't get bent when I play with ams in doubles, but if I'm in a "good group" my game can absolutely catch fire. Historically if I'm in a cool, pro level group I have my best rounds... if I play with some bitter dip sh|t with a stopwatch all the time I might actually try that there devil stick golf I always here about.

I've been lucky to play with guys/gals that are "legends", they don't move real fast but they're not dogging it. I don't know think they fit the 30 seconds clock (more like 45 sec) but they have instilled in me an unmatched love of the game, knowledge of the rules and fair play. I wouldn't want to change.

I want to live in a world where autocross can play his/her game without idiotic distraction at a reasonable pace without persecution from some speed demons.

This kind of comes down again to the "when does the clock start" sorta deal.

And with the others chiming in on timing the players. We got different numbers.


In my personal fairness of thought with time, it comes down to what is "reasonable" and what is unruly.
Excessive time needs to have some level of definition because everyone has a different idea of reasonable and excessive.

I don't personally play with anyone here that just takes an unreasonable or unruly amount of time ever. There are slower players that pop up here and there, but the count of those is so small that you rarely play with them except at tournaments, which I don't play those. I will next year. But I'll be in MP40 where I'm playing with the guys I already play with who play fast.

 

[Sheep]

I'm going to ignore the 30 second rule...because if you're playing in a sanctioned tournament (or sanctioned league) and you want to be the guy that everyone hates playing with because you're slow but within the rules...that's your right. If that's your only concern, being within the rules, then that's pretty straightforward.

If your concern is how to make people happier with your pace of play, there are things you can do. I'm going to include things that guys I play with often do (I play with a lot of the same folks in leagues...it doesn't mean you do...but these guys are notoriously slow and say a lot of the same things you do in terms of their reasoning...so if it doesn't apply to you, then ignore it).

1. You're last on the tee...so then you should be ready to throw when it is your turn. That means at the teepad with disc in hand. It does not mean you're checking your phone or getting a drink while all 3 of the others throw, and then when it is your turn looking up like you teeing off is an unexpected event and just starting to think about what you're going to do.

2. You're the first to throw after teeing off. You probably don't need a drink of water when you get to your disc. You just had a break while everyone else was teeing off, and you're going to have another as soon as you throw and everyone else does their 2nd throws. Even under the quickest of circumstances, I can get a drink in the time it takes 1 player to throw...if yours is longer consider better accessibility for your drinks?

Again, I'm not sure which question you're really caring about in terms of "How do I stay within the rules?" vs "How do I keep players from not liking to play with me because of my speed?". Also consider that lots of people who play fast just play fast. It doesn't necessarily mean they care that you're playing a normal pace.

Timing is also situation-dependent in terms of how it is viewed. If you're taking 30 seconds from in the woods 1 time per round...nobody is going to think much of it. If you're taking 20 seconds on each tee when you're always the last guy to tee off...that's going to seem super slow to your card.

I think some great points are made here. But the people who are usually stallers are not ready to go when its their turn on the box and they are not first. So many times do I see people just be lost in la la land, or talking, or on their phone. No disc in hand. Then they gotta take a drink of water and all this other stuff.

Be ready to play at all times.
If you threw short, be quick to get to your disc and make your second shot and show the hustle. Don't have to run, but dont hang back at the tee pad while everyone is waiting at your disc for you to catch up 50 feet behind everyone.

How are you expected to enforce the 30 second rule without an accurate time measuring device? You better started bringing your cell phone with you.. If you feel it is everyone's duty to enforce all of the rules, you better whip out your stopwatch for every shot man I bet that would make you a notorious person to play with.... Maybe they will invent stopwatch mini markers and when you set it down it will start counting down and vibrate or ping at 30 seconds. We might need it as a penalty stroke defense mechanism... my clock said 34 seconds, mine said 29...

Massive amounts of sarcasm implied haha, disc golfing is the only break I get from my infernal cell phone. I don't even like scorecards.. I think birdie beads are pushing it.. I want more hippies! Where did all the hippies go!

There really isn't a good way to enforce it.
Thats why the PGA rule of "unruly delay" is far better.
Which basically means a player is stalling or not paying attention to what they are supposed to be doing, which is getting ready for the shot, or doing things other than what they are supposed to be doing.

If I am last on the tee I am deliberately taking my time, since way too often the other member on the card are trying to walked down the fairway in the middle of my tee shot.

If you're moving forward, I am standing still.

There is honestly nothing more annoying than being last on the box to have everyone just grab their stuff and start walking even though you're standing there with your disc in hand getting ready for your turn on the box.

But as well. There is no reason to dilly dally and not be ready while the other 3 people are teeing off. You're watching their discs fly, so you can make appropriate judgement of discs, and take those 2 or 3 discs to the box with you to make a final choice. And use your time as youre supposed to.

I dont' think the implication there was meant as "you should throw immediately" but more or less, all that other silly stuff should have been done already. Getting a drink, checking this, getting ready.

 

[autocrosscrx]

2. You're the first to throw after teeing off. You probably don't need a drink of water when you get to your disc. You just had a break while everyone else was teeing off, and you're going to have another as soon as you throw and everyone else does their 2nd throws. Even under the quickest of circumstances, I can get a drink in the time it takes 1 player to throw...if yours is longer consider better accessibility for your drinks?

It kind of depends. Sometimes, it is a hike to get to that 2nd shot. Sometimes, I have to pee between holes. Sometimes I'm shoving all the discs I used last hole back into my bag. Sometimes I'm putting in the scores or trying to figure out why scores don't match, then choosing a disc, etc.

My goal is to not let other dictate my paces. I played with a more veteran player one round in the tourney. He has a great reputation in the community and he is really structured in how he plays. And I think I learned from that. Don't walk fast because everyone else is walking fast. Don't skip shoving discs in your bag after your shot because everyone else is walking. Etc, etc, etc.

...and if somebody doesn't like me because a 5'7" person has a shorter pace than a 6'4" person and I take 23 seconds to putt, then so be it.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

If I am last on the tee I am deliberately taking my time, since way too often the other member on the card are trying to walked down the fairway in the middle of my tee shot.

If you're moving forward, I am standing still.

Sounds like the playing area isn't clear, refuse to throw until they run back behind the pad.. A couple of laps will slow them down. That's kind of like when people start throwing before the group ahead has chained out.. I hate that. Nothing like trying to putt with someone yelling "fore" behind you.

 

[Sheep]

It kind of depends. Sometimes, it is a hike to get to that 2nd shot. Sometimes, I have to pee between holes. Sometimes I'm shoving all the discs I used last hole back into my bag. Sometimes I'm putting in the scores or trying to figure out why scores don't match, then choosing a disc, etc.

My goal is to not let other dictate my paces. I played with a more veteran player one round in the tourney. He has a great reputation in the community and he is really structured in how he plays. And I think I learned from that. Don't walk fast because everyone else is walking fast. Don't skip shoving discs in your bag after your shot because everyone else is walking. Etc, etc, etc.

...and if somebody doesn't like me because a 5'7" person has a shorter pace than a 6'4" person and I take 23 seconds to putt, then so be it.

I think that's a great attitude on the subject.

You cannot let others rush you because they are impatient.

But the key to whatever is going on is usually obvious to those who are around you.
Is what you're doing faffing about, or is what you're doing necessary.

People get more frustrated on time related things when it looks like somebody is faffing about and not putting effort in.

 

[dmoore1998]

It kind of depends. Sometimes, it is a hike to get to that 2nd shot. Sometimes, I have to pee between holes. Sometimes I'm shoving all the discs I used last hole back into my bag. Sometimes I'm putting in the scores or trying to figure out why scores don't match, then choosing a disc, etc.

My goal is to not let other dictate my paces. I played with a more veteran player one round in the tourney. He has a great reputation in the community and he is really structured in how he plays. And I think I learned from that. Don't walk fast because everyone else is walking fast. Don't skip shoving discs in your bag after your shot because everyone else is walking. Etc, etc, etc.

...and if somebody doesn't like me because a 5'7" person has a shorter pace than a 6'4" person and I take 23 seconds to putt, then so be it.

The goal, if you want to be well-liked among those you play with, is figuring out how to do all this other ancillary stuff without slowing everyone else down. These aren't things that are actually playing, they're "housekeeping" things that aren't difficult to fit into other time slots. For example...the 2 obvious gaps in your playing time are when you get to the tee if you're throwing last...and after you've thrown your 2nd when everyone else is throwing. Those are great times to get a drink, shove discs back into your bag, etc. Everyone else has to do the same things, when are they doing it?

I'm guessing these aren't the actual reasons for playing slower though. These are the things people think makes them play slower. For example "I had to put my discs back in my bag"...that's a couple seconds. I assume you can drink while you're walking.

If the question is really "how can I keep playing slowly while not feeling impacted by everyone else playing quickly", that's probably a different question/answer. First is probably just not caring what other people think. Second might be convincing yourself you're not playing that slowly anyways (which might be 100% true...some people just like to play fast and don't mind someone else playing much more slowly than them...because much more slowly is still a fine pace).

 

[Al Dente]

It kind of depends. Sometimes, it is a hike to get to that 2nd shot. Sometimes, I have to pee between holes. Sometimes I'm shoving all the discs I used last hole back into my bag. Sometimes I'm putting in the scores or trying to figure out why scores don't match, then choosing a disc, etc.

My goal is to not let other dictate my paces. I played with a more veteran player one round in the tourney. He has a great reputation in the community and he is really structured in how he plays. And I think I learned from that. Don't walk fast because everyone else is walking fast. Don't skip shoving discs in your bag after your shot because everyone else is walking. Etc, etc, etc.

...and if somebody doesn't like me because a 5'7" person has a shorter pace than a 6'4" person and I take 23 seconds to putt, then so be it.

These are not valid excuses as the rest of us are all having to deal with the same issues, and most of us are able to do so without slowing the group.

 

[autocrosscrx]

These are not valid excuses as the rest of us are all having to deal with the same issues, and most of us are able to do so without slowing the group.

I mean, the whole purpose of the post was how to slow the group.

 

[Al Dente]

https://images.app.goo.gl/gJ7S9pKCj5QVifez7

 

[autocrosscrx]

The goal, if you want to be well-liked among those you play with, is figuring out how to do all this other ancillary stuff without slowing everyone else down. These aren't things that are actually playing, they're "housekeeping" things that aren't difficult to fit into other time slots. For example...the 2 obvious gaps in your playing time are when you get to the tee if you're throwing last...and after you've thrown your 2nd when everyone else is throwing. Those are great times to get a drink, shove discs back into your bag, etc. Everyone else has to do the same things, when are they doing it?

I'm guessing these aren't the actual reasons for playing slower though. These are the things people think makes them play slower. For example "I had to put my discs back in my bag"...that's a couple seconds. I assume you can drink while you're walking.

If the question is really "how can I keep playing slowly while not feeling impacted by everyone else playing quickly", that's probably a different question/answer. First is probably just not caring what other people think. Second might be convincing yourself you're not playing that slowly anyways (which might be 100% true...some people just like to play fast and don't mind someone else playing much more slowly than them...because much more slowly is still a fine pace).

Again, nobody has said anything to me. I know that I'm well within the rules. And I've been on cards where I was probably the fastest player.

...but I've played with a few guys that I felt were abnormally fast.

In those particular rounds, I wasn't spraying shots or anything. We just had some 375'ish foot holes that those guys could drive and I can't. And since there is some trouble and I have no chance of getting a putt, I'd throw a mid about 250, then pitch up, and then make a 10 or 15 footer. Old man golf.

We had a hole exactly like I described. Guy 1 laces his shot and parks the hole. Puts on bag. Guy 2, who is a more deliberate player but well within the rules, turns his shot. Guy 3 throws a good shot, but is maybe 40 short, puts on bag. I throw my mid 250. As soon as I release, guy 1 and guy 3 are down the fairway. By the time I have my bag on and am stepping off the tee pad, they are at my shot. Guy 2 is walking with me. He is way right, so he keeps walking to his shot. I throw my shot. As soon as I let go, guy 1 and 3 start walking. I land about 12 feet out. I grab my bag and then Guy 2 throws. Disc under the basket. Guy 3 cans his 40 footer. Guy 1 drops in as Guy 3 is walking up to the basket to clear. They both walk to the next tee pad. I make my putt. Guy 2 drops in. Last person on the next hole clears the basket and and Guy 1 fires his next drive as the group ahead are walking away from the green. Guy 2 and I are still probably 75 feet from the tee pad, putting in scores as we are walking. Guy 3 throws his tee shot as we are putting down our bags. Then we confirm scores for the last hole. Now there is a bit of a delay as Guy 2 has had no chance to get ready for his shot, so he's now the "bad guy".

...but these types of players are rare and I just need to learn to recognize when this is happening and make sure they don't dictate my pace.

 

[eegor]

Again, nobody has said anything to me. I know that I'm well within the rules. And I've been on cards where I was probably the fastest player.

...but I've played with a few guys that I felt were abnormally fast.

In those particular rounds, I wasn't spraying shots or anything. We just had some 375'ish foot holes that those guys could drive and I can't. And since there is some trouble and I have no chance of getting a putt, I'd throw a mid about 250, then pitch up, and then make a 10 or 15 footer. Old man golf.

We had a hole exactly like I described. Guy 1 laces his shot and parks the hole. Puts on bag. Guy 2, who is a more deliberate player but well within the rules, turns his shot. Guy 3 throws a good shot, but is maybe 40 short, puts on bag. I throw my mid 250. As soon as I release, guy 1 and guy 3 are down the fairway. By the time I have my bag on and am stepping off the tee pad, they are at my shot. Guy 2 is walking with me. He is way right, so he keeps walking to his shot. I throw my shot. As soon as I let go, guy 1 and 3 start walking. I land about 12 feet out. I grab my bag and then Guy 2 throws. Disc under the basket. Guy 3 cans his 40 footer. Guy 1 drops in as Guy 3 is walking up to the basket to clear. They both walk to the next tee pad. I make my putt. Guy 2 drops in. Last person on the next hole clears the basket and and Guy 1 fires his next drive as the group ahead are walking away from the green. Guy 2 and I are still probably 75 feet from the tee pad, putting in scores as we are walking. Guy 3 throws his tee shot as we are putting down our bags. Then we confirm scores for the last hole. Now there is a bit of a delay as Guy 2 has had no chance to get ready for his shot, so he's now the "bad guy".

...but these types of players are rare and I just need to learn to recognize when this is happening and make sure they don't dictate my pace.

There is little doubt that I'm the guy that takes off and gets down the fairway. As "that guy", I can assure you that playing from bad lies, looking for your disc, or making a bad shot, does NOT make you a "bad guy". I make bad shots, look for my disc, and shoot from bad lies too. As long as you're within the rules, you're not a "bad guy". That's why they haven't said anything to you. Go have fun. I bet they will continue to play rounds with you.

 

[Rastnav]

Again, nobody has said anything to me. I know that I'm well within the rules. And I've been on cards where I was probably the fastest player.

...but I've played with a few guys that I felt were abnormally fast.

In those particular rounds, I wasn't spraying shots or anything. We just had some 375'ish foot holes that those guys could drive and I can't. And since there is some trouble and I have no chance of getting a putt, I'd throw a mid about 250, then pitch up, and then make a 10 or 15 footer. Old man golf.

We had a hole exactly like I described. Guy 1 laces his shot and parks the hole. Puts on bag. Guy 2, who is a more deliberate player but well within the rules, turns his shot. Guy 3 throws a good shot, but is maybe 40 short, puts on bag. I throw my mid 250. As soon as I release, guy 1 and guy 3 are down the fairway. By the time I have my bag on and am stepping off the tee pad, they are at my shot. Guy 2 is walking with me. He is way right, so he keeps walking to his shot. I throw my shot. As soon as I let go, guy 1 and 3 start walking. I land about 12 feet out. I grab my bag and then Guy 2 throws. Disc under the basket. Guy 3 cans his 40 footer. Guy 1 drops in as Guy 3 is walking up to the basket to clear. They both walk to the next tee pad. I make my putt. Guy 2 drops in. Last person on the next hole clears the basket and and Guy 1 fires his next drive as the group ahead are walking away from the green. Guy 2 and I are still probably 75 feet from the tee pad, putting in scores as we are walking. Guy 3 throws his tee shot as we are putting down our bags. Then we confirm scores for the last hole. Now there is a bit of a delay as Guy 2 has had no chance to get ready for his shot, so he's now the "bad guy".

...but these types of players are rare and I just need to learn to recognize when this is happening and make sure they don't dictate my pace.

First off, that last thing is key. Recognizing our own mental states, processing the best internal actions we can take to adapt to them, and then reacting appropriately are all key life skills. This is repetitive "sharpen the saw" thing. Right now you are engaging in the "processing the best internal actions" part. So, go you.

If you happen to like FPO (or even if you don't), check out the final card Ledgestone coverage on GK Pro. You will see Missy Gannon close her eyes and take a deep, cleansing breath, inhale and slow exhale, before just about every shot. She builds proper mindset right into her routine. You have to find what works for you, but that clearly works for her.

But also, (A) Guy 1 and Guy 3 are kinda being dicks. (B) They likely not playing in accordance with the rules, as I'm guessing they didn't observe your putt. Also, they should be confirming the scores you entered. (C) You are taking the load of scoring, and yet they are making it harder for you by rushing on ahead? See point (A).

 

[autocrosscrx]

First off, that last thing is key. Recognizing our own mental states, processing the best internal actions we can take to adapt to them, and then reacting appropriately are all key life skills. This is repetitive "sharpen the saw" thing. Right now you are engaging in the "processing the best internal actions" part. So, go you.

If you happen to like FPO (or even if you don't), check out the final card Ledgestone coverage on GK Pro. You will see Missy Gannon close her eyes and take a deep, cleansing breath, inhale and slow exhale, before just about every shot. She builds proper mindset right into her routine. You have to find what works for you, but that clearly works for her.

But also, (A) Guy 1 and Guy 3 are kinda being dicks. (B) They likely not playing in accordance with the rules, as I'm guessing they didn't observe your putt. Also, they should be confirming the scores you entered. (C) You are taking the load of scoring, and yet they are making it harder for you by rushing on ahead? See point (A).

Yeah. If the 2 fast players had taken scoring and backup, I think our pace would have been far more balanced.

 

[dmoore1998]

Again, nobody has said anything to me. I know that I'm well within the rules. And I've been on cards where I was probably the fastest player.

...but I've played with a few guys that I felt were abnormally fast.

In those particular rounds, I wasn't spraying shots or anything. We just had some 375'ish foot holes that those guys could drive and I can't. And since there is some trouble and I have no chance of getting a putt, I'd throw a mid about 250, then pitch up, and then make a 10 or 15 footer. Old man golf.

We had a hole exactly like I described. Guy 1 laces his shot and parks the hole. Puts on bag. Guy 2, who is a more deliberate player but well within the rules, turns his shot. Guy 3 throws a good shot, but is maybe 40 short, puts on bag. I throw my mid 250. As soon as I release, guy 1 and guy 3 are down the fairway. By the time I have my bag on and am stepping off the tee pad, they are at my shot. Guy 2 is walking with me. He is way right, so he keeps walking to his shot. I throw my shot. As soon as I let go, guy 1 and 3 start walking. I land about 12 feet out. I grab my bag and then Guy 2 throws. Disc under the basket. Guy 3 cans his 40 footer. Guy 1 drops in as Guy 3 is walking up to the basket to clear. They both walk to the next tee pad. I make my putt. Guy 2 drops in. Last person on the next hole clears the basket and and Guy 1 fires his next drive as the group ahead are walking away from the green. Guy 2 and I are still probably 75 feet from the tee pad, putting in scores as we are walking. Guy 3 throws his tee shot as we are putting down our bags. Then we confirm scores for the last hole. Now there is a bit of a delay as Guy 2 has had no chance to get ready for his shot, so he's now the "bad guy".

...but these types of players are rare and I just need to learn to recognize when this is happening and make sure they don't dictate my pace.

Absolutely, I think the hard thing for the slowest guy in the group is to understand that other people may not care one bit since your pace may be "normal" and theirs may be "fast". I'm tall, I'm a fast walker, I tend to know what I'm going to throw on most holes...I'm ready pretty much all the time. Others aren't going to be as fast as I am, which is ok.

I'm the guy walking from the previous basket to the next tee who has already had a drink and already has his disc out ready to tee off by the time I get there.

To me the standard between "normal pace" and "slow" tends to be whether I question if someone knows it is their turn or not. If I look at you and there's no discernible indication that you understand you are up...then I'll probably think you're slow.