how many people is too many?

[JC17393]

I honestly don't know what to tell you. I did know and that is the truth. I honestly had never planned to be a part of the PDGA again in the future due to an incident I had with someone in a high position within the organization. And wasn't the whole A-Tier having to have a membership a new rule? Anyone that has taken the officials exam knows that it's open book and about as hard to pass as a drivers test. There are a multitude of rules that most people don't know that are both current members and officials as we see in many many discussions here on this very website. Also, there is a lot from that period in my time that I try to forget and not think about very much. Believe me or not, that I can not control... I have been as open and honest about everything that happened and I guess you can choose what to do with that. But logically, why would I contact the PDGA immediately this morning if I was trying to hide or avoid the situation?

No. A-tiers have required a current membership since there has ever been something called an A-tier (in other words, for decades). There's nothing new about it. And while it is in the Competition Manual (section 1.1 B), I'm pretty sure it's not something that comes up on the rules test.

There is a bit of irony in someone who has been so vehement on threads about other people following the rules to the letter pleading ignorance as an excuse for his own rule breaking. Yes, you are owning up to it after the facts became undeniable. That's fine. Like David is saying, perhaps you need to lighten up in general.

 

[ScottyLove]

Run in with high ranking PDGA official... perhaps about non-payment of fees for summer 2011 tournament?? I mean the suspension went into effect in March 2012... about the time it would take for a dispute to escalate. Simply not buying the story.

Why? Because I had to submit a TD report another scoundrel of a TD who refused to do so and never paid. It got very ugly with lots of name calling and such when all we players wanted was credit for the tournament we paid to play in. Guess what? The fine folks at the PDGA made the tournament official even without payment.

 

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

 

[Harrishabitat]

Run in with high ranking PDGA official... perhaps about non-payment of fees for summer 2011 tournament?? I mean the suspension went into effect in March 2012... about the time it would take for a dispute to escalate. Simply not buying the story.

Why? Because I had to submit a TD report another scoundrel of a TD who refused to do so and never paid. It got very ugly with lots of name calling and such when all we players wanted was credit for the tournament we paid to play in. Guess what? The fine folks at the PDGA made the tournament official even without payment.

The two situations have nothing to do with each other. I felt burned by something that happened at a NT that I was volunteering at. Basically someone taking credit for something that I had created and sacrificed to make happen.

As for the suspension, I still don't know that is valid. I see it on the website, but beyond that I don't know because this is the first I have heard about it. I have contacted them to find out what has happened. I was part of a group that ran that event, as far as I knew the money was sent in with the report. As far as anything past that I don't know. I didn't even know about any of this till someone brought it up this morning and I started to look into it. I can tell you that I have never received anything from the PDGA in regards to this.

 

[DavidSauls]

Which is why I have owned up to it fully and completely even to the terribly embarrassing details on circumstances in my life at the time. I am not running and hiding, I am not trying to divert attention away from me I am facing it head on and dealing with it...what ever the outcome.

Yes, you have.

Far from me to give unsolicited life advice to anyone. But if I were in your place---when I've been in your place, in other times in the past---I'd be apologizing to those I accused of cheating, and retracting my strident statements on the absolute enforcement of rules. I might even say that, in light of circumstances, I now see where some rules might be flexible, and where leniency might sometimes be warranted.

I'm not telling you to do so. I'm just passing along what's worked for me.

 

[Stardoggy]

I'm not sure if this thread is awesome, funny, or sad. Whichever it is, I'm going to keep watching.

 

[JC17393]

The two situations have nothing to do with each other. I felt burned by something that happened at a NT that I was volunteering at. Basically someone taking credit for something that I had created and sacrificed to make happen.

As for the suspension, I still don't know that is valid. I see it on the website, but beyond that I don't know because this is the first I have heard about it. I have contacted them to find out what has happened. I was part of a group that ran that event, as far as I knew the money was sent in with the report. As far as anything past that I don't know. I didn't even know about any of this till someone brought it up this morning and I started to look into it. I can tell you that I have never received anything from the PDGA in regards to this.

I presume you received emails running up to the event such as confirmation that it was on the schedule, info to log in to the online manager to post pre-reg and/or results, an updated list of members in your area, etc. Your name and email was on the tournament, so you'd presumably be the one to get all that stuff. They'd have been contacting you by the same means (and even by phone if you provided a number) after the event looking for the fees if they didn't receive them before the deadline.

Knowing who was in charge of tracking down delinquent payments at that time, I can honestly say I doubt very much your event slipped through the cracks. Marcy was always thorough and dogged about getting on TDs to pay their fees (even, as was the case with one of my events, the event owed nothing because it was a charity event where all fees were donated to the charity). They certainly made numerous attempts to contact you before reaching the point of adding your name to the disciplinary list. If you changed phone numbers and/or didn't check your email for months at a time, maybe you missed all those attempts. I'd imagine if that's the case, simply paying the fees (or clarifying that they were in fact paid) would get you removed from the suspended list immediately.

The double membership would be a different matter. Ignoring the suspension all together, it still looks fishy no matter how it came about. A new suspension might be warranted since that's what the Competition Manual calls for in both situations of playing under a false identity (even if it was you both times, two numbers = two identities) and playing a division for which you are not eligible (depends on if they hold you to your original number's rating).

You can always hope they buy the story of your innocent ignorance and show leniency despite the clearly stated rules and consequences in the book.

 

[brutalbrutus]

HAHA did they kill the other thread I cant connect to it?

 

[optidiscic]

oh this is sweet justice

all the grief Harris gave me regarding that TDs should feel free to make as much money as the market would bear and screw the masses all cliaked in a patriotic capitalist cape

seems your true colors are shining bright

greed and lack of ethics

 

[LukeButch]

oh this is sweet justice

all the grief Harris gave me regarding that TDs should feel free to make as much money as the market would bear and screw the masses all cliaked in a patriotic capitalist cape

seems your true colors are shining bright

greed and lack of ethics

I was active in that thread too, and now I can see why harris hated the idea of TDs being open and honest

 

[krupicka]

The problem I have is that there were numerous posts made by Jeff vehemently avoiding owning up to the multiple PDGA #s and being involved with a previous event with outstanding fees, etc. after it was revealed here. It also appears that he then tried to remove some evidence of such by taking down the Event page on Facebook tying it to him. It is not until after this and a few more posts that he starts coming clean here. If it was an innocent slip-up, why do that?

I am glad I am not a member of the disciplinary committee who has to deal with this.

 

[oddjob]

I didn't say that I knew I needed a new membership, it was obviously a mistake that happened when I showed up at my first event in 2 years. I am sure if you want to you can assume and come to any conclusion you want.

http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/15639

Your first event back was a C tier. You were gone for 14 months tops.

 

[JC17393]

http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/15639

Your first event back was a C tier. You were gone for 14 months tops.

He did play the High Plains Challenge A-tier later that month, which is presumably when he was "forced" to sign up for a membership. But yeah, seeing that he played that C-tier without his PDGA number, one can infer all kinds of things from that.

 

[oddjob]

He did play the High Plains Challenge A-tier later that month, which is presumably when he was "forced" to sign up for a membership. But yeah, seeing that he played that C-tier without his PDGA number, one can infer all kinds of things from that.

he said his first event back was the A tier and he hadn't played in two years, neither were true.

and if you read the thread opto and luke are referring to, it makes it incredibly difficult to believe he didn't know what was going on when he showed up to the A tier.

 

[JC17393]

he said his first event back was the A tier and he hadn't played in two years, neither were true.

and if you read the thread opto and luke are referring to, it makes it incredibly difficult to believe he didn't know what was going on when he showed up to the A tier.

I'm aware of that thread, participated in it as well (kinda sided with him at least in the spirit of free market principles).

I've maintained that if he was truly as innocently naive and ignorant of the membership thing as he claims, he is admitting he's a fairly dim individual. With some of the topics he's been active on around here, he hasn't come off as dim to me. Perhaps passionate to a fault and generally argumentative, but not dim. The initial defensiveness, attempts at deflection and cover-up, and the contradictory excuses don't do him any favors either.

In the end, I feel bad for him. Not for the beating he's taken on this thread, but just in general.

 

[Tfire25]

Dgcr is awesome.

Jeff, you will be alright. It sounds like you have more important things to worry about. Disc golf is a game, a hobby, a distraction. If at any point my distractions get in the way of my life, I get rid of them. Maybe a long suspension will help you reconnect with your life.

If your lying about the cancer and everything else then **** you. Cancer isn't a joke.

 

[Harrishabitat]

I know I should have totally run and hid and not commented on any of this and just logged off and not come back. But I was trying to be mature and take my lumps for something that was an unfortunate and incredibly regrettable mistake. You can make any judgments you would like, but to trying to say any of this was intentional you are calling me a liar with zero real proof. And if you are going to do that, have the honor of doing that to my face or directly not on an anonymous forum.

If all of this was really intentional, wouldn't I be trying to hid it? If I knew what I was doing was wrong, why the hell would I use my real name? I had moved to a new area, no one knew me and no one checks ID's so I could have used any name. I didn't because I wasn't hiding. And if I was trying to do that, why would I put myself on here, using all the information that obviously makes it easy to find anything out about me? If you are going to try to connect all of these dots, can you be intellectually honest and factor that in? Go back and look at the wintertime open this year, my name is listed there twice with both numbers... please explain to me how I caused that to happen? Did I actually play as two different people in the same division on the same days? Mistakes happen everyone, it doesn't make it right or somehow justify the mistakes, but they happen and often they are unintentional.

As for comments I have made in other topics. I have zero idea what anything I had to say about Salient has to do with this, almost everyone was saying the same things that I was. As for opening the TD books to anyone at an event, I still fully stand behind that comment. You can say that I should have known, and that's fine, but trying to call me a thief is another thing all together. In the one sanctioned event that I ran, all of our Am's got players packs worth the value of their entry (disc golf bag, 2 custom discs and more) PLUS we paid out to the PDGA tables. We did the same thing in our unsanctioned event that we also ran. I also have volunteered countless hours and money to other events including creating and running the Memorial Experience at the Memorial, which brought in thousands of people to get to see disc golf for the first time. So trying to say that I am a thief or trying to hide something is completely false.

I know there is blood in the water and that some people just can't resit a train wreck but seriously what more do you want? I have already contacted the PDGA and I am suspended for who knows how long. What will be a good enough penalty for you all? Lifetime suspension? Maybe we should get law enforcement involved and maybe I need to be arrested for this horrendous crime? Maybe the death penalty? Maybe I should have just ended it all before I was hospitalized in the midst of everything happened in my life at that time. Would that appease you all?

Most of you have never met me and you are making snap judgments about me, and I realize that is what the internet is for. I made a mistake, a mistake that I was unaware of and I wish to everything that I am I would have known so I could have done it differently. People that know me know that I am a very honorable person and do a lot for this sport without getting anything back. I am very passionate and that has gotten me in trouble many times. But I am not a liar, a thief or a cheat. I have spent the last two years trying to get over those things that happened in my life...some of you on here feel it's ok to make homosexual jokes at my expense. Is that really what you think is considered appropriate? I would ask for a little compassion and understanding. I have not hid and I have faced this head on. I have contacted the proper people to deal with the situation. What more do you want? I am very very sorry for everything that I have done and wish this had all happened differently.

 

[Harrishabitat]

Dgcr is awesome.

Jeff, you will be alright. It sounds like you have more important things to worry about. Disc golf is a game, a hobby, a distraction. If at any point my distractions get in the way of my life, I get rid of them. Maybe a long suspension will help you reconnect with your life.

If your lying about the cancer and everything else then **** you. Cancer isn't a joke.

I would never release my ex wife's information to verify, but it isn't a joke and it's also not a joke that she has chosen a different lifestyle. Anyone that knows me, knows that absolutely the truth. Also anyone that knows me, knows that I am not a dishonest person. I think it's strange that everyone is so willing to believe the worst but will never try to see that some times honest mistakes happen... and I have to sadly admit that I can be one of those people sometimes.

 

[The Hammer]

I knew Jeff IRL, prior to his move to Wyoming. I can't speak to much in this thread, but I will say that Jeff did in fact give a great deal of his time, and energy into putting on, and promoting DG events. He was the driving force in creating The Memorial Experience, of which he was kind enough to include me. I can also say that I knew about the life situation that he described earlier, and that is not a fabrication. The last few years haven't been kind to Jeff.

 

[Tfire25]

I would never release my ex wife's information to verify, but it isn't a joke and it's also not a joke that she has chosen a different lifestyle. Anyone that knows me, knows that absolutely the truth. Also anyone that knows me, knows that I am not a dishonest person. I think it's strange that everyone is so willing to believe the worst but will never try to see that some times honest mistakes happen... and I have to sadly admit that I can be one of those people sometimes.

I wasn't making a joke about anything. I'm sorry about your rough patch and I want to believe you. Although I agree with chuck, the best made plans etc., I think you are correct in saying 2 somes shouldn't happen.

In saying that, the whole basis of participants enforcing rules is wrong IMO. I know it's not feasible, but an unbiased official needs to be with every card. That is what disc golf lacks. That is what holds us back.

Good luck in dealing with the pdga, and I hope they get to the bottom of whatever went wrong either way. I sincerely hope that they will be unbiased if you truly have a beef with a higher up. If they ban you, you still have the distraction of casual rounds with friends. And that's really what disc golf should be about.