[Compare] How much disc speed is really needed?

[bsammons]

I have a quick question for all of you.
I'm 5'11 but I have small hands. Like, medium rubber glove kinda small hands. Moderate to slightly large female kind of small hands. I'll get to that later.
I throw kinda far, currently reworking form but the other day hit 550 with a distance driver (moderately OS catalyst; speed 13) however, on a similar rip, I tossed a Volt 475-500 (speed 8). I was sitting here thinking to myself tonight after throwing a little bit just how much more consistently I throw my Volts than my distance drivers, and how they aren't too far off distance wise. I'm pretty sure that's because of my smaller hands, listed above, but in addition to similar flights I also feel like I get consistently more snap off the smaller rim. So here's the main question/s.

How much more distance do you get with your max distance drivers vs control drivers?

How much more accurate are you with your control drivers?

What are the benefits/drawbacks to completely ditching the high speed stuff in favor of slightly more lower speed stuff?

Look forward to reading what y'all have to say

 

[Sethamphetamine]

1. 50-75 feet it seems?

2. More accurate.

3. See above?

 

[Thmz]

1. Looking at my control drivers/fairway drivers, i can push my Teebird3 up to 400ft maybe even 415ft if i really want. But usually i stick to 375-400ft. Then PD's, the beat up ones i bag i can push to 430-440ft. Usually if the hole is flat ground under 400ft i grab a Teebird3 and if it is under 430-440ft i grab a PD. But right at that 440ft mark i'm really thinking about pulling out a distance driver.

For distancedrivers while still maintaining control, i use Destroyers. Definitely not the fastest or longest, but gives me almost PD-accuracy with an added 25ft. So Destroyers i can push to 460-470ft with a decent accuracy. If the hole is a flat ground, 500ft, i have to throw a Boss. More speed, more glide, but also more lateral movement and loss of accuracy.

So in my thoughts i'm always trying to throw the slowest disc possible for the most amount of accuracy. I feel most confident with my PD's so that's kinda my go to, if i'm just looking for straight distance.

I feel like the benefits of the high speed stuff is in higher lines, like high hyzers or anhyzers. I also get a lot more fade out of a Destroyer when compared to a PD. But then again, there is a par-5 on my homecourse, the sweet spot is at 400ft and it has a wide open hyzer line. I throw a PD2 or a Destroyer, always, because i need the fade and left movement.

 

[racer93]

If you watch Jomez or anyone else with good knowledge of what the guys are throwing, VERY FEW throws are full-on distance drivers. Even at that, most aren't going more than a Wraith anymore. There are exceptions, but the trend is absolutely toward slower but more accurate discs. IOW, all out distance is not king. Accurate distance is.

 

[Jolt]

Fun to see Calvin throw his Eagle in the DGPT finale...that's a 7-seed disc and he throw that thing accurately and far

 

[Moose33]

On BH throws I consistently throw my Stags around 400 and if I throw something faster(King, Tern, DDX) I can throw them farther but only by maybe 25-30 ft.

On FH throws however I hit 400 or thereabouts with my Flare or Firebird, and can throw my Warhorse, Ape or Enforcer at least 450 and have hit over 500 on a good rip. So being able to throw the disc fast enough to use it how it's intended is part of it.

But more and more I play rounds and never pull anything faster than a speed 9.

But honestly if your throwing that far, just do what works and worry about other parts of your game. I spent too many years chasing throwing farther and didn't work on controlled shorter shots or putting and if I had it probably would have helped more.

 

[SD86]

I'm 5'11 but I have small hands. Like, medium rubber glove kinda small hands. Moderate to slightly large female kind of small hands. I'll get to that later.

(snip)

I'm pretty sure that's because of my smaller hands, listed above, but in addition to similar flights I also feel like I get consistently more snap off the smaller rim. So here's the main question/s.

How much more distance do you get with your max distance drivers vs control drivers?

How much more accurate are you with your control drivers?

What are the benefits/drawbacks to completely ditching the high speed stuff in favor of slightly more lower speed stuff?

I'm not sure it's the size of your hands that's the issue, but it sounds like you have good snap as well as decent enough form that you're throwing for good distances.

As to how much SPEED you NEED... and to answer your last question: it's a relative thing. Paul McBeth can throw his Luna 500 ft.+ and he could throw a Nova 350 ft. on a frozen rope. Not all of us can do that, but my point is that some people can and do throw lower speed discs a very long way.

My rule of thumb is to throw the lowest speed disc that gets the job done. For noodle-armed me, my 13-speed Shryke goes 30-40 ft. further than my 9-speed Sphinx or 10-speed Beast, so on longer, open holes it makes sense to throw the Shryke if that extra distance will make a difference. Otherwise, and especially if I'm going for disc placement over sheer distance, I'll throw the Sphinx or even the 7-speed Leopard3, and sacrifice the 30-50 feet to set up for my next shot.

So if there are holes on your favorite courses where you get more distance from a higher-speed driver, take it with you. If there's simply not enough difference, leave the high-speed disc at home and put in another slower-speed disc (an approach or mid, even) for accuracy.

 

[Twmccoy]

Every speed disc has a place, assuming you have the arm for them.

The OG poster seems to throw ridiculously far with slow drivers. He won't need to even bother with speed 13-14.

I personally carry a few fast drivers in the bag. On holes where you can really rip they do produce more distance for me than slower drivers. I will readily admit that the faster you go up in speed, the less accuracy/consistency you'll see in your drives. Everyone knows no two Destroyers are the same. Faster drivers in general definitely have consistency issues in production.

Now, to answer the real question. Does anyone NEED really fast drivers? Probably not. I could play almost any course around here adequately throwing nothing faster than a Thunderbird. My max distance with a Thunderbird is about 400'. Now, when I step up to a Boss, Nuke, or Shryke I can tack at least 30' on that. Furthermore, throwing fast drivers at times adds an element of fun to the game. I don't want to drive every hole with a Thunderbird. It gets boring. There are certain drives I find on the course where a Thunderbird just isn't quite long enough.

The key when throwing high speed drivers is knowing when to reach for them and when to sacrifice distance for consistency and accuracy.

 

[Twmccoy]

I'm not sure it's the size of your hands that's the issue, but it sounds like you have good snap as well as decent enough form that you're throwing for good distances.

As to how much SPEED you NEED... and to answer your last question: it's a relative thing. Paul McBeth can throw his Luna 500 ft.+ and he could throw a Nova 350 ft. on a frozen rope. Not all of us can do that, but my point is that some people can and do throw lower speed discs a very long way.

My rule of thumb is to throw the lowest speed disc that gets the job done. For noodle-armed me, my 13-speed Shryke goes 30-40 ft. further than my 9-speed Sphinx or 10-speed Beast, so on longer, open holes it makes sense to throw the Shryke if that extra distance will make a difference. Otherwise, and especially if I'm going for disc placement over sheer distance, I'll throw the Sphinx or even the 7-speed Leopard3, and sacrifice the 30-50 feet to set up for my next shot.

So if there are holes on your favorite courses where you get more distance from a higher-speed driver, take it with you. If there's simply not enough difference, leave the high-speed disc at home and put in another slower-speed disc (an approach or mid, even) for accuracy.

This sentence is the key to the whole thing. Throw the slowest disc that will reach the distance you need. I learned this the hard way. I'd try to take too much off of fast drivers for shorter throws when I should have just grabbed a Teebird or something. Trying to feather a Boss 350' is way harder than taking a full rip with a Teebird.

Any good disc golfer should know how to adequately throw discs of any speed..... and also know what situations to throw those discs in.

 

[Casey 1988]

This sentence is the key to the whole thing. Throw the slowest disc that will reach the distance you need. I learned this the hard way. I'd try to take too much off of fast drivers for shorter throws when I should have just grabbed a Teebird or something. Trying to feather a Boss 350' is way harder than taking a full rip with a Teebird.

Any good disc golfer should know how to adequately throw discs of any speed..... and also know what situations to throw those discs in.

I agree, rarely do you see an experienced player throwing a Valkyrie or Beast into a strong headwind of more then 25 mph. Then again into a not heavy headwind you see the experienced player using a flatter top almost flat top Star Valkyrie if they still want to use the mold, into a light headwind for me it is ~15 to ~20-25 mph with an almost flat top Destroyer.

 

[Casey 1988]

This sentence is the key to the whole thing. Throw the slowest disc that will reach the distance you need. I learned this the hard way. I'd try to take too much off of fast drivers for shorter throws when I should have just grabbed a Teebird or something. Trying to feather a Boss 350' is way harder than taking a full rip with a Teebird.

Any good disc golfer should know how to adequately throw discs of any speed..... and also know what situations to throw those discs in.

I agree with the bold 100%. Some select types of male players I see out there think they have to be like the pro players and not throw anything that is not a putter or 4 speed putter shape midrange like a OS Rat or Shark on 90% of holes that are 300 feet and under, or that being able to throw a putter up to 400 feet or they are not a true player. They see in videos better Pro players being able to throw discs 400 feet or more on wide open throws/holes and on disc golf course lines 300 feet roughly. They do not understand the dedication to practice some of these Pro players have for the game or how many tournaments these pro players play to get that good with just a putter. The amateur often forgets about wind when even by a pro player a faster 5 speed or non putter shaped midrange disc is used in that same spot a putter or putter shaped 4 speed midrange is used.

 

[Suspect]

I'm set on 7 speeds with a 10 speed DX beast. The trouble with newer players is they have to get the high speed discs. I was one of them. Throwing Bosses and Wraiths around when new was trouble for me haha.

7 is the magic number.

See Video for proof.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JB2di69FmhE

 

[racer93]

What has been said for years by Scott Stokeley is to throw the slowest speed disc you can to eliminate the greatest possibility of error. ie/ A putter vs a PD2 for upshot. Simple but it works extremely well.

Personally, when I was playing more (I've had to take some time off), I was throwing my Instincts nearly 450'. On an open course, I was only throwing my OS shrykes on 3-4 holes. You just don't need it. Never use your disc speed as a crutch--work on your form. As the OP has found, you CAN get nearly the same D from a speed 7 that you can as a 13.

Any more, accuracy is where the game is headed. Think placement golf. In this type of golf, D is not necessary.

 

[discspeed]

Simply put, high speed discs add a risk factor to your shot. They outperforme slower discs at many things, but often at a lower success rate.

 

[thechamp]

It's fun to go fast

 

[ThomasOrion]

For me it always seems like, when I'm doing field work you think to yourself "Why do I have all these discs? I can make anything work and I can get similar distance with slower drivers" But I feel it all comes down to the conditions and the ceiling. In an open field So many discs land in similar spots, but with wind direction and intensity as well as how high or low a ceiling you have it makes me change the speed of a disc (and stability) Anyway to actually answer your questions

How much more distance do you get with your max distance drivers vs control drivers?
375-450 for max D discs typically -> 275-350 for control drivers

How much more accurate are you with your control drivers?
It's more the line that you hit. Accuracy, I can be pretty darn accurate at distance, but its the shape and the line needed to take to get there. Open field, I feel I'm almost as accurate with either, but in the course setting, I am more comfortable with a smaller rim disc, and Speed 8-10 discs have great control and distance ability. I recently have been liking the Streamline Lift and the Millenium OrionLF for a lot of those duties. as well as a Volt or Patriot

What are the benefits/drawbacks to completely ditching the high speed stuff in favor of slightly more lower speed stuff?
you can get more consistency with less discs but there are times where 'distance' isn't the only reason for a wider rim disc.

 

[DanJon]

They only need to go to 11.

 

[Alexplz]

Let's not forget two things that fast discs are good at - skipping/lateral movement and to a lesser degree, cutting through wind.

One slot in my bag I've had a hard time eliminating is what I call my nasty forehand disc - something fast, glidey and stable for technical flex shots and skips. The specific mold for this one doesn't matter too much, but something faster than a Wraith seems to be the ticket.

Other than that though, this time of year I have traditionally shelved anything faster than an escape.

 

[ThomasOrion]

One thing I wanted to add - I use a DELIRIUM which is a speed 14.5---yes, 14 .5 and it is that fast. I have found its very useful in shots where I maybe used to use a Thunderbird or something like that. If I need to get a straight shot that then fades sharply around a tree or an obstable I have used this and throw it at about 80% vs a 95% with a Thunderbird/Anax type disc. It will go very fast straight then will start that low speed fade nicely right around the tree (since its SO fast it gets to that point quicker so the fade arch plays out better) it moves quick with a forward moving but sharp hyzer.

So as I said before the DISTANCE of a shot isn't the only factor in deciding the SPEED of a disc. Its the shape, the conditions, and always, the ceiling. If I have a tunnel shot that's only 100 ft but I have NO ceiling, I'll bump up to a mid. Similarly, if I have an upshot that is 200 ft, but open and low wind, I will throw a putter. A lot depends. But.........yea

 

[mojorooks]

They only need to go to 11.

Nigel Tufnel: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and...
Marty DiBergi: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten?
Nigel Tufnel: Exactly.
Marty DiBergi: Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder?
Nigel Tufnel: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?
Marty DiBergi: I don't know.
Nigel Tufnel: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
Marty DiBergi: Put it up to eleven.
Nigel Tufnel: Eleven. Exactly. One louder.
Marty DiBergi: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?
Nigel Tufnel: [pause] These go to eleven.