How much OB is too much OB?

[Mspot]

I was really impressed with the course for the final 9 of the Ledgestown. Looked great. :clap: The shot through the bridge looked cool... especially when McCray parked his shot near the basket. Was pretty disappointing to see everyone else take a putter and lob it 100 feet forward (Colglazer literally jump putted off the tee). :thmbdown: The hole going down hill over the volleyball court down to the lake was sweet too. But I would have much rather seen them try to get as close to the pin as possible as opposed to putting down to the sand.

When does using OB go to far?

 

[razorsmith.com]

The TD mentioned in earlier rounds that the warm-up tourney they used to test the course, everyone was going for it and going OB. Personally I like it because it gives players needing to make a move the opportunity here and there. In the last full round Paul said he would not take a crazy anny line over water. He did not even pretend to be Simon. But in the final 9 and down strokes he had no choice.

And I think the drawn up OB like here and USDGC make a normally open course much more interesting forcing different lines. Plus they reward for a great shot, penalize for a decent shot, and punish you with the really bad shots. Makes for the possibility for a lot of movement. Happy throwing.

Darren

 

[teemkey]

I think the question is really the size of IB, and the difficulty in getting there.

Think of an island the size of a putting circle: at 200' it's pretty easy, at 400' not so much; even at 200' if there's a couple of big, bushy trees or a pile of hay bales in front with an elevated tee. Many factors to consider.

 

[Mspot]

There are definitely a lot of factors to consider. I'm not saying I'm against OB or even the stroke and distance rule.... But when people lay up with jump putts off the tee and we r not seeing the beautiful shots that the course is designed for then I think that that is too much OB.

 

[JoakimBL]

And I think the drawn up OB like here and USDGC make a normally open course much more interesting forcing different lines. Plus they reward for a great shot, penalize for a decent shot, and punish you with the really bad shots. Makes for the possibility for a lot of movement. Happy throwing.

Darren

That is the problem right there. Use interesting courses to start with, an you don't have this problem.

 

[DavidSauls]

It's rarely a case of too much O.B. Sometimes a case of poor use of O.B.

This isn't limited to ropes or other designer-created O.B. It can also happen when using existing features---water, roads, whatever.

2 of the 3 courses I play most often, have lots of O.B., and lots of chances to be penalized by it. But they don't have too much---at least not to my taste.

 

[optidiscic]

its typically what a player is used to

Many players rarely encounter OB and feel constrained when they cannot throw freely and recklessly

 

[DavidSauls]

Large areas of O.B. often place different constraints on a throw.

Obstacles constrain where the disc can fly, but often there's less worry about where it lands. Sometimes you're free to land pretty much anywhere past the obstacles; other times, there's a preferred place to land, but a chance to save the shot that misses that sweet spot.

With large areas of O.B., like lakes or roped area, the player is free to choose his flight path---the only obstacle being, perhaps, the wind---but must land in the correct place.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

recently blue ribbon pines has added lots of OB and drop zones. The drop zones are often an easier shot than that which might be OB. Seems to take away the "get out of trouble" factor.

I don't think added areas of OB are good course design in the woods where natural features already provide a challenge. It almost makes some of the recovery shots easier.

 

[Cgkdisc]

recently blue ribbon pines has added lots of OB and drop zones. The drop zones are often an easier shot than that which might be OB. Seems to take away the "get out of trouble" factor.

I don't think added areas of OB are good course design in the woods where natural features already provide a challenge. It almost makes some of the recovery shots easier.

A high profile example of this issue was the Chili course (Bakers Farm) at the 1999 Pro Worlds in Rochester. The complete outside boundary of the converted farm course was strung with OB at the edge of the brush line. The reason was the need to speed play. However, the trade-off was losing the potential for players to demonstrate their recovery shot skills.

 

[JC17393]

recently blue ribbon pines has added lots of OB and drop zones. The drop zones are often an easier shot than that which might be OB. Seems to take away the "get out of trouble" factor.

I don't think added areas of OB are good course design in the woods where natural features already provide a challenge. It almost makes some of the recovery shots easier.

On the other hand, roping off those rough areas as OB often protects them from becoming trodden down and progressively easier to recover from, to the point of not being all that punitive at all relative to the fairway proper.

Overall, I agree with DavidSauls. I've never really encountered "too much" OB on a course. I have encountered poorly designed OB on plenty of courses, however.

 

[DavidSauls]

recently blue ribbon pines has added lots of OB and drop zones. The drop zones are often an easier shot than that which might be OB. Seems to take away the "get out of trouble" factor.
.

I've found drop zones to be surprisingly tricky to get right. You get the tee and green and fairway and O.B. set, and then put in a drop zone that's too tough, too easy, or even a NAGS with little additional scoring spread.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

A high profile example of this issue was the Chili course (Bakers Farm) at the 1999 Pro Worlds in Rochester. The complete outside boundary of the converted farm course was strung with OB at the edge of the brush line. The reason was the need to speed play. However, the trade-off was losing the potential for players to demonstrate their recovery shot skills.

it definitely seems to speed things up that's for sure but kind of feels "meh" when playing.

On the other hand, roping off those rough areas as OB often protects them from becoming trodden down and progressively easier to recover from, to the point of not being all that punitive at all relative to the fairway proper.

This isn't really the case here but understand where you are coming from.

For example this hole:

Now has a drop zone at the very end of the woods before it opens up and OB everywhere except the path walking out to:

b4 if you kicked off into either side early from the tee you could be looking at a 5+. the upshot from the drop zone is sinkable for a 3 and easy 4.

 

[optidiscic]

looks like brp is trying to salvage their woods by forcing stroke plus dz

keeps players from forcing lines out of woods to open field

 

[optidiscic]

my course has extensive OB primarily utilized by a shallow meandering stream

on 15 of the holes the ob stream is precariously behind or alongside the green/basket what this does is force players to make controlled slower shots instead of recklessly running baskets....since the course is in a busy small park and the course is around 5,000 ft total it keeps players of all abilities under control

A few times we cross the stream but even those shots the basket is close to ob

we also have an 188 ft 8 inch artificial island hole that plays safer since u must land in a circle instead of just launching

Most of what I did was to keep chuckers from ruining my course with bosses on 230 ft holes

it has made for a tricky course that many complain is too gimicky

i can usually figure the complainers to be the guys with circles on their scorecards

lol oh well

 

[Aim For The Chains]

looks like brp is trying to salvage their woods by forcing stroke plus dz

keeps players from forcing lines out of woods to open field

There is no real fairway though.

Seems like it would be easier and make more sense to just surround the basket with OB which has a natural OB stream behind it already. Not even sure if the line is continuously laid out all the way to the right side either as once in the field it doesn't divide the next hole fairway.

 

[optidiscic]

There is no real fairway though.

Seems like it would be easier and make more sense to just surround the basket with OB which has a natural OB stream behind it already. Not even sure if the line is continuously laid out all the way to the right side either as once in the field it doesn't divide the next hole fairway.

omg theres a ton of fairway lol Im confused

 

[Dr.Smooth]

Well with woods holes on most courses the erosion is bad. No turf anymore, slippery when wet all kinds of bad things going on. This is one of the main reasons over the years I have gravitated towards more open courses. Open courses that are well designed that is.

Having a defined fairway with everything outside of it as OB is great idea!

It is going to help save our woods/forests. Players(most) will walk over and get their discs rather than beat everyting down causing ruts so on and so forth.

This is going to help with alot of issues. Not to mention improving the marketablity of our sport.

Do you want to see a badly eroded, bare to down to dirt kind of hole. No big money sponser will want anything to do with something that looks that unprofessional.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

omg theres a ton of fairway lol Im confused

you call a path that is just wide enough for 2 people to walk on side by side a fairway?

If you don't make it out to the wide open area which is exactly that, no fairway either lol you just go ahead to DZ and throw a upshot to the basket. It takes all of that first part of the hole pretty much out of play.

 

[JC17393]

omg theres a ton of fairway lol Im confused

I think it all comes down to how wide and long that path is between the tee and where it opens into the field. <75 feet and I don't see the issue with the design, including the OB. >75 feet and that's asking a lot of most players.