How Normal are Diamond TRs?

[Dave242]

LoL...I feel like a celebrity. My MO when I was a course bagger (started years before DGCR) was to play everything I could when I was in a given geography (and courses were MUCH harder to find back then with no user-friendly centralized directory like this awesome place!), and RATE them for myself - RATE, not REVIEW. By the time I entered the first batch of RATINGS from my list (~125) to beef things up on DGCR in the early days there was no such thing as a craving to the a "Diamond Reviewer". Turns out a lot of people like Reviews more than Ratings - I am the opposite. If I want to choose a course to play when I have only time to play one (or a couple) I look at the RATINGS. DCCR is almost never wrong in recommending the best courses in a given area purely the the Ratings (or steering me away from the less enjoyable courses).

My inner nerd is pleased that without intentionally trying, my ratings rubric has resulted in close to a bell curve centered almost exactly at the midpoint of the scale (2.5). And, by all my 'helpful' :thmbup:s, I have apparently helped a lot of people....which was my hope. I certainly did no personal harm to anyone who gave me an 'unhelpful' :thmbdown:

Where have I been in the last decade? In friggin Chicago where courses are a dime a dozen....and most worth well less than that (I'm spoiled having come of age as a DGer in Charlotte). It takes a 45 minute drive for me to get to a decent course and 90-100 minutes to get to ones I really love. And family (2 in college, one in high school now). Now that I am moving into the empty nest years, I expect to get into my course bagging ways again (and potentially writing more reviews here).

 

[wellsbranch250]

Where have I been in the last decade? In friggin Chicago where courses are a dime a dozen....and most worth well less than that (I'm spoiled having come of age as a DGer in Charlotte). It takes a 45 minute drive for me to get to a decent course and 90-100 minutes to get to ones I really love. And family (2 in college, one in high school now). Now that I am moving into the empty nest years, I expect to get into my course bagging ways again (and potentially writing more reviews here).

Not sure if you saw this or not Dave, but UDisc rated Chicago as the second best Disc Golf City in America in 2021. So did UDisc get it right? Or perhaps you were like me and found that UDisc capabilities in picking top disc golf cities is equivalent to the sheep's ability in picking the best wolf packs to guard their heard.

 

[Countchunkula]

Where have I been in the last decade? In friggin Chicago where courses are a dime a dozen....and most worth well less than that (I'm spoiled having come of age as a DGer in Charlotte). It takes a 45 minute drive for me to get to a decent course and 90-100 minutes to get to ones I really love. And family (2 in college, one in high school now). Now that I am moving into the empty nest years, I expect to get into my course bagging ways again (and potentially writing more reviews here).

The options around here have improved a lot over the past decade, but unfortunately most of the new, quality courses are in the outermost ring of suburbs/exurbs. I'm still driving to Joliet for good golf. That really hasn't changed in 15 years.

 

[wellsbranch250]

The options around here have improved a lot over the past decade, but unfortunately most of the new, quality courses are in the outermost ring of suburbs/exurbs. I'm still driving to Joliet for good golf. That really hasn't changed in 15 years.

what are your top 5 in the wider Chicago metro area? at some point i'll be driving through again. I've already hit fairfield and the canyons, which I assume are on your list. (both were awesome)

 

[Countchunkula]

what are your top 5 in the wider Chicago metro area? at some point i'll be driving through again. I've already hit fairfield and the canyons, which I assume are on your list. (both were awesome)

Without a ton of thought:
Canyons
Fairfield
Highland, Joliet, IL
Rolling Knolls Elgin, IL
Fel-Pro RRR Cary, IL

Walnut Hollow in Cary is also nice. I enjoyed it much more than I would have expected based on the pictures.

If you widen the Chicago area to include NW Indiana and SE Wisco (lots of people actually making those commutes into the city), I would have to include Grey Fox. I haven't been out to Lemon Lake in years, but the red and gold/silver courses used to be in the mix. The EAB has apparently done work on that complex though.

My comment about the options improving wasn't just about the top end though. We've had some good enough 18 hole courses added in areas that were dg deserts or only served by one of those stereotypical Chicago suburban park 9s. Having KLM 5 minutes away is so much better than I've ever had it.

 

[wolfhaley]

Without a ton of thought:
Canyons
Fairfield
Highland, Joliet, IL
Rolling Knolls Elgin, IL
Fel-Pro RRR Cary, IL

Walnut Hollow in Cary is also nice. I enjoyed it much more than I would have expected based on the pictures.

If you widen the Chicago area to include NW Indiana and SE Wisco (lots of people actually making those commutes into the city), I would have to include Grey Fox. I haven't been out to Lemon Lake in years, but the red and gold/silver courses used to be in the mix. The EAB has apparently done work on that complex though.

My comment about the options improving wasn't just about the top end though. We've had some good enough 18 hole courses added in areas that were dg deserts or only served by one of those stereotypical Chicago suburban park 9s. Having KLM 5 minutes away is so much better than I've ever had it.

Glad to hear this. I'll be headed down to the Libertyville and Crystal lake area in early July and have Fel-pro RRR and Walnut Hollow on the docket. They looked interesting for sure, nice to hear how they stack up to the best of Chicago. I've played Canyons, Fairfield and Rolling Knolls already and thoroughly enjoyed all 3, especially Dellwood. Grey fox is fantastic, one of my favorites in WI. Silver Fox is excellent as well, if you haven't played it.

I was going to ask you 2 questions when I started this post, but I think I figured out the answers myself. EAB is obviously emerald ash borer :doh: Katherine Legge Memorial is KLM I'm guessing?

 

[Countchunkula]

Glad to hear this. I'll be headed down to the Libertyville and Crystal lake area in early July and have Fel-pro RRR and Walnut Hollow on the docket. They looked interesting for sure, nice to hear how they stack up to the best of Chicago. I've played Canyons, Fairfield and Rolling Knolls already and thoroughly enjoyed all 3, especially Dellwood. Grey fox is fantastic, one of my favorites in WI. Silver Fox is excellent as well, if you haven't played it.

Don't want to inflate expectations. Just to be clear, this isn't one of those top 5s that I could order in any way. Canyons and Fairfield are clearly the top 2 in my book. While the two Cary courses are fun, I don't want you to think I'm putting them on par with our 2 best. Expect a lot of traffic at Fel-pro if you are playing on a weekend. Walnut Hollow was deserted when I played (pretty sure also on a weekend).

I remember really liking Silver Fox, but honestly can't picture any of the course. Although I played Grey Fox a few years earlier, I can still visualize a few holes. Need to take a day and play the foxes again.

I was going to ask you 2 questions when I started this post, but I think I figured out the answers myself. EAB is obviously emerald ash borer :doh: Katherine Legge Memorial is KLM I'm guessing?

You got it

 

[Three Putt]

Don't want to inflate expectations. Just to be clear, this isn't one of those top 5s that I could order in any way. Canyons and Fairfield are clearly the top 2 in my book. While the two Cary courses are fun, I don't want you to think I'm putting them on par with our 2 best. Expect a lot of traffic at Fel-pro if you are playing on a weekend. Walnut Hollow was deserted when I played (pretty sure also on a weekend).

I remember really liking Silver Fox, but honestly can't picture any of the course. Although I played Grey Fox a few years earlier, I can still visualize a few holes. Need to take a day and play the foxes again.

I stopped going to the Chicago area in 2019, but I agree. I have Fairfield #1 and the Canyons #2 with Highland the clear #3. Those three courses I'd recommend.

Elgin was my #4, and after that was Oswego and Channy. Which one I thought was #5 depended on the day. That sounds like a recommendation, but really none of those three courses are at a level that I'd say you had to play them if you were in the area. They are good for the area and they were courses I enjoyed more than say Jericho Lake or Katherine Legge, but YMMV.

It's nice to hear Fel-Pro RRR got an upgrade; the park itself looked like it had a ton of potential for more than the short, open niner that was there.

 

[Three Putt]

I've played Canyons, Fairfield and Rolling Knolls already and thoroughly enjoyed all 3, especially Dellwood.

Random question: Why do we give Dellwood a total pass for atrocious flow? I mean I did. There are directional signs so I've never been lost, but every time I've been there I've run into people confused by the letter holes who skip those, which creates a backup when you hit 7/8 and then again at 9. 12 to 13 and 13 to 14 are both really long golfless walks. It makes me wonder if there is a halo effect of being one of only a few solid courses in such a large metropolitan area. I mean you also throw at the amphitheater on 3 and at a maintenance building on 15. It's not a perfect course. I was really eager to forgive all of its sins when I reviewed it, though. So have pretty much everyone else.

 

[Horsman]

Random question: Why do we give Dellwood a total pass for atrocious flow? I mean I did. There are directional signs so I've never been lost, but every time I've been there I've run into people confused by the letter holes who skip those, which creates a backup when you hit 7/8 and then again at 9. 12 to 13 and 13 to 14 are both really long golfless walks. It makes me wonder if there is a halo effect of being one of only a few solid courses in such a large metropolitan area. I mean you also throw at the amphitheater on 3 and at a maintenance building on 15. It's not a perfect course. I was really eager to forgive all of its sins when I reviewed it, though. So have pretty much everyone else.

The good golf just must make us all blind. I think every time I've played the course I've had a guide as well so for me I probably didn't mind it. Plus the park is just pretty to look at. If I ever get back there I will pay more attention to this.

 

[Countchunkula]

Random question: Why do we give Dellwood a total pass for atrocious flow? I mean I did. There are directional signs so I've never been lost, but every time I've been there I've run into people confused by the letter holes who skip those, which creates a backup when you hit 7/8 and then again at 9. 12 to 13 and 13 to 14 are both really long golfless walks. It makes me wonder if there is a halo effect of being one of only a few solid courses in such a large metropolitan area. I mean you also throw at the amphitheater on 3 and at a maintenance building on 15. It's not a perfect course. I was really eager to forgive all of its sins when I reviewed it, though. So have pretty much everyone else.

I don't know that we give it a total pass. The convoluted flow and few long walks were my main cons when I had it rated as a 4 disc 18 hole course. I upped it to 4.5 when they added the 9 letter holes, but that's still the biggest issue with the course.

Hole 3 is weird. Not the weakest hole on the course, but close. It seems mainly to exist in order to get you from 2 to 4, but it adds extra (uphill) walking in doing that. Feels too long to be a 3 and too short to be a 4 for the intended skill levels. 15 is a fun downhill shot, but agreed that the maintenance building is very much in play. 14 is also a total throwaway hole that only exists to get you from 13 to 15.

If you could combine the 18 best holes (and magically eliminate the long walks) Canyons would be a near perfect white/blue level course. I think it's pretty clear that the designers chose to include the best holes that they could and accept the long walks.

I think the course is widely loved because it sits in that difficulty sweet spot for a big % of players. Most every hole is birdieable for me, but I rarely string more than a couple together. With two tees on most holes, I think a lot of players would have a similar impression.

 

[Three Putt]

I don't know that we give it a total pass. The convoluted flow and few long walks were my main cons when I had it rated as a 4 disc 18 hole course. I upped it to 4.5 when they added the 9 letter holes, but that's still the biggest issue with the course.

Hole 3 is weird. Not the weakest hole on the course, but close. It seems mainly to exist in order to get you from 2 to 4, but it adds extra (uphill) walking in doing that. Feels too long to be a 3 and too short to be a 4 for the intended skill levels. 15 is a fun downhill shot, but agreed that the maintenance building is very much in play. 14 is also a total throwaway hole that only exists to get you from 13 to 15.

If you could combine the 18 best holes (and magically eliminate the long walks) Canyons would be a near perfect white/blue level course. I think it's pretty clear that the designers chose to include the best holes that they could and accept the long walks.

I think the course is widely loved because it sits in that difficulty sweet spot for a big % of players. Most every hole is birdieable for me, but I rarely string more than a couple together. With two tees on most holes, I think a lot of players would have a similar impression.

I thought 14 and 15 both were "we need two more holes" kinds of shots; I would go early on weekdays to avoid the huge crowds and started just taking the path the other way to 16 and skipping both holes.

When you play it in order, 16 makes you forget 14 and 15 anyway. Hole 4 is like that for me; hole 3 is a throwaway and the walk from 4 to 5 is long and confusing, but hole 4 pays off so by the time you finish 3/4/5 it's not really driving you crazy or anything. The payoff was there.

There are quite a few really cool shots on that course that make it's faults acceptable. It does have faults, though. It's faults are what make me consider Fairfield a better course now, but it took me a bit to get there. When Dellwood opened and the Fairfield redesign was fairly new, I had that the other way around.

Fairfield has that thing where it dares somebody like me to get back on the gold holes where I shouldn't be but you know I'm going to go check out anyway, and then it's a matter of if I can appreciate something that's designed way over my head or not. For whatever reason, it's aging better in my memories than Dellwood is.

 

[Three Putt]

The good golf just must make us all blind. I think every time I've played the course I've had a guide as well so for me I probably didn't mind it. Plus the park is just pretty to look at. If I ever get back there I will pay more attention to this.

I was there with Noill one time and we wandered back to the old lock that is behind 17's tee and spent like 1/2 hour investigating that. By the time we got back to tee off we created a cluster and backed up the last two holes. Then we started wandering around after we finished 18 getting in the way trying to figure out how that system worked. We got cursed at I think three times and Noill told me that aliens could have built the pyramids. :| It was a lot more fun than your standard park, that's for sure.

 

[Countchunkula]

^17's kind of a cluster anyway. I think it's kind of a tweener hole (from the whites at least) and the walking path down the right side gets plenty of traffic.

I think you were on to something earlier. The really good holes on that course are so good that they make you overlook the flaws. Also doesn't hurt that it's in an often beautiful park with some cool artifacts to stumble across. Much different than the artifacts you'll find at nearby Highland.

The more I think about it, the more flaws I recall, but I still love it!

 

[notapro]

I feel like I'm the only person who doesn't look at the Canyons through rose-tinted glasses. The long walks, the filler holes, the constant park-goer interference, the ridiculous overcrowding, no bridge to the letter holes, half of the letter holes being out of the ground most times I've been there.

I do think it's a great course, ESPECIALLY with some of the long tees they've put in, the letter holes, and the tournament layout the pro's plays looks like a blast. The pro shop is a nice touch for the area too, they helped me out with a bulk purchase once so much love! But in practice it's a headache of a course, and I usually try to avoid it if possible. I almost still like Highland over it, but if both courses were empty I would give the nod to The Canyons for sure.

Kind of reminds me of West Lake Park; logistically a nightmare but the golf makes up for it.

 

[notapro]

Where have I been in the last decade? In friggin Chicago where courses are a dime a dozen....and most worth well less than that (I'm spoiled having come of age as a DGer in Charlotte).

I can't believe I used to argue with you about Summit... lol... man, I learned to hate that course.

 

[tallpaul]

Summit Rules!

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I feel like I'm the only person who doesn't look at the Canyons through rose-tinted glasses.

So, what color are your glasses tinted?

Summit Rules!

I've never played by Summit rules.
How do they differ from the PDGA's?

 

[notapro]

So, what color are your glasses tinted?


I've never played by Summit rules.
How do they differ from the PDGA's?

Cold, hard truth of clarity. Maybe a few fingerprint smudges.

I played through the designers of Summit one time; hole 3 it was. He gave me a tip on the hole: torque an 11 speed driver on an anhyzer with 250' worth of power, let it noob hyzer around the corner to the pin. I mean, he wasn't wrong...

 

[Countchunkula]

Summit Rules:
-No fairways wider than 10'
-250'+ is effectively a par 4
-Don't ask what makes the creek smell like that