I met a Par loving dufus

[Improbably]

Some people care about par some people disregard par it's a matter of personal taste really.

Today I met a par devotee who insisted total stroke count is effected by the par value of the hole. I had to just agree to disagree and drop the topic with an otherwise nice dude who's understanding of basic arithmetic had been ruined by adherence to par centric thinking. I simply could not convince him my total stroke count would be the same regardless of the par values assigned to the holes we had played.

My trollish posit:

Those who care about par, care about par for either, and sometimes both, rational or irrational reasons.

Those who disregard par disregard par for rational reasons.

My more trollish conclusion:

Disregarding par is more often rational than caring about par.

 

[Jimb]

What is par? :doh::wall:

 

[THUGNIFICENT763]

Play everything as a par 3. Problem solved.

 

[LmidgitD]

Yup, par 3 for everything

 

[filobedo]

Play everything as a par 3. Problem solved.

Hipster golf is playing everything as a par 3.

 

[BuzzSharpe]

For the Advanced Am/Pro level players, whose play is mostly, or at least muchly dedicated to tournament participation and/or preparation, playing with/against similarly skilled/ experienced players, Par IS pretty much meaningless, as it is the numerical stroke total that counts and matters in their final analysis of their performance, compared to the competition of the field.
For Recreational, and even Intermediate level players, whose primary play is casual and more commonly by themselves, or with a buddy or two, Par holds more meaning, as a measure against the hole/course being played and themselves.
In the early days of the sport, when the best players throwing the best plastic were max driving in the 250' range, holes were designed and built with 3 as the standard for every hole's Par, with very few holes approaching or exceeding a 300' length. When Wagner and company implemented the alternate layout (now labeled White/Gold) at Cedarock in the late 80's, Hole #3 was/is 520'/560', but was still assigned a Par 3 rating, because that was the standard mindset of the time; that every hole was a Par 3, some just much more difficult to attain. Same for Wellspring 17 (then #3), at 610'/720'. Today, by PDGA par guidelines, experience and common sense, we know that those holes are legitimate Par 4's. When we were developing Johnson Street in the early 90's, I proposed a 777' long White hole for the power tower field, to be par rated as a 4 or 5. It was an idea that was laughed off of the table as ludicrous and ridiculous, as such a hole had never been. Some years later, when the present Gold pads were installed, they were affectionately labeled as The Ludicrous Layout, or The Ludes, though none of those holes approach that 777' distance.
Nowadays, with David Wiggins Jr. throwing over 1100' and many, if not most Blue and Gold level players max driving in the 450'-550' range, longer holes, with higher par assignations were/are inevitable and necessary. When Wiggins graciously agreed to be the Pro demonstrator during the demonstration/walkthrough at Springwood in 2013, we witnessed him achieve a drop-in Eagle on 901' long and 55' to 70' wide #13. It was an Eagle 3 on a 1008' long hole, with a par assignation of 5, with five holes left to play, that was crucial to Ronnie Huffman's come from behind Open Division victory in the inaugural (and thus far, only) Springwood Springtime Self-Invitational in 2014. Of course, and obviously, other players played that hole much closer to the assigned par rating, except perhaps for those who may have double, triple, or quadruple bogeyed.
To say that every hole, from the shortest recommended distance of 150' to the longest hole, at a recommended distance of approximately 1200', should be assigned a par rating of 3, is of course, ludicrous and laughable.

 

[VictorB]

Hipster golf is playing everything as a par 3.

Nah, it's just way easier to add up

 

[BuzzSharpe]

An Addendum

A point I meant to posit. For the player or players that think par doesn't matter and it's only stroke count that counts, I'd venture to wager that he/she/they would know that it's much better to shoot, say a 60 on Renny Gold or Winthrop Gold than it is to do so on say, the Golds at Cedarock or Johnson Street, or on two loops of Beth Schmidt.

 

[joecoin]

A point I meant to posit. For the player or players that think par doesn't matter and it's only stroke count that counts, I'd venture to wager that he/she/they would know that it's much better to shoot, say a 60 on Renny Gold or Winthrop Gold than it is to do so on say, the Golds at Cedarock or Johnson Street, or on two loops of Beth Schmidt.

So does that mean that par is miscalculated on one or more of those courses?

The harder the course, the higher the par?

Shouldn't par be the true average of whatever amount of throws are taken on a given hole? Rounded up or down to the nearest whole number of course.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Par doesn't matter when disc golf played as a game.
Par can matter when disc golf played as a sport.

 

[DougCrawford]

About total score count being affected by par, that is odd. I don't know how one would come to that understanding.

I do like to play according to par for a course. I usually play by myself so it's a bit easer to assess my progress. Feels a bit better to think that I shot a -6 on a course than a 50. That same 50 could mean something different on a different course also.

Almost all of the courses around here(Charotte area) are fairly assigned in their par value though. My first trip to Earlewood I played by par on the tee signs, and that as the first time I felt something was off with the par assignment on a course after shooting a -18. After reading some course info on the site- the "long" tees were playing everything as 3. I'm guessing that it's one of the older courses that had par assigned when folks weren't throwing so far.

 

[Binky Yutz]

NOT ANOTHER "WHAT IS PAR?" thread.

ALL holes a Par 3, I get it.....so ANY 18 hole course is a Par 54......does not matter how long, how short or how difficult said course is, 54 throws is what it should take....makes perfect sense....why does the PDGA even have standards for what Par a particular hole should be?

As paraphrased by another poster in a similar thread:
DAD: How did you throw today, son?
SON: I threw a 60.
DAD: Is that good or bad?
SON: Well Dad, it's a 60. I might be +6, or I might be -2. What difference does it make anyway?
DAD: Why did I have children?

Someone tell McBeth next time he cards a 4 on a Par 4, that is going to be counted as a Bogey.

Feel free to call me a Par Loving Dufus, but I like to know how I am doing on any given course, and the established Par (whether correct or incorrect), is how I determine that.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Nothing produces as many total scoring errors in tournaments as printing individual hole pars on the scorecard of courses with several par 4s and 5s. Standard practice for big PDGA events is to never include hole pars on the scorecards but just in the caddy book or tournament info sheet.

 

[Martin Dewgarita]

One of the first courses I played was Mountain Crest in Vegas. The posted pars are like 4 for a 308' hole or 5 for a 416' hole. I shot like 10 down and thought to myself, damn, I'm pretty good at this game. Someone mentioned in passing that the course record was like 14 down and I thought to myself, damn, I'm really good at this game, clean up a couple throws and I'm shooting a course record. I instantly thought maybe I was one of the best players to ever throw discs and I was hooked. If they had all been par 3, who knows, I might have given up the game right there thinking I sucked...

 

[Improbably]

One of the first courses I played was Mountain Crest in Vegas. The posted pars are like 4 for a 308' hole or 5 for a 416' hole. I shot like 10 down and thought to myself, damn, I'm pretty good at this game. Someone mentioned in passing that the course record was like 14 down and I thought to myself, damn, I'm really good at this game, clean up a couple throws and I'm shooting a course record. I instantly thought maybe I was one of the best players to ever throw discs and I was hooked. If they had all been par 3, who knows, I might have given up the game right there thinking I sucked...

Self delusion is a cornerstone of enjoyment for many, both in disc golf and in general.

 

[runningDoc]

Self delusion is a cornerstone of enjoyment for many, both in disc golf and in general.

I like to use SSA total scores on courses to see how close to a scratch round I'm getting. But if I'm having a bad round then course "par" suddenly becomes relevant

 

[DanJon]

Hipster golf is playing everything as a par 3.

Nihilist golf is not caring about par.

 

[DavidSauls]

For the Advanced Am/Pro level players, whose play is mostly, or at least muchly dedicated to tournament participation and/or preparation, playing with/against similarly skilled/ experienced players, Par IS pretty much meaningless, as it is the numerical stroke total that counts and matters in their final analysis of their performance, compared to the competition of the field.

For Recreational, and even Intermediate level players, whose primary play is casual and more commonly by themselves, or with a buddy or two, Par holds more meaning, as a measure against the hole/course being played and themselves.
.

That's a good observation, though you and I might use "intermediate level" differently. I'd say, "casual players". But I think it particularly applies when the latter group generally only plays one course.

 

[Nasty Nate]

Nihilist golf is not caring about par.

I'm like Ty Webb, I don't really keep score.

 

[filobedo]

One of the first courses I played was Mountain Crest in Vegas. The posted pars are like 4 for a 308' hole or 5 for a 416' hole. I shot like 10 down and thought to myself, damn, I'm pretty good at this game. Someone mentioned in passing that the course record was like 14 down and I thought to myself, damn, I'm really good at this game, clean up a couple throws and I'm shooting a course record. I instantly thought maybe I was one of the best players to ever throw discs and I was hooked. If they had all been par 3, who knows, I might have given up the game right there thinking I sucked...

The first time I played was at Earlewood (which is a pitch and putt essentially) and when we arrived at hole #3 tee I noticed it was around 300' and noted as a par 5. When my friend took a 3 I said, congrats on the eagle and he just laughed saying 95% of holes in dg where par 3s and the par was marked incorrectly.