I Need a Little More Distance

[lowesengineer]

No fieldwork over the weekend so I was not able to do much practice. I did however get a round in early on Saturday prior to all the other things I had to do. I watched the Reciprocating Dingle Arm video several times over the past few days and think I at least mentally have the concept. My fieldwork today will be to continue working on getting everything in the throw onto one plane as that has proven difficult for me at the very least. I will also begin to work toward more flow in the throw by starting with my weight moving slightly forward, activating my hips around, then allowing my shoulder turn to pull my arm through the swing. So today's plan is:
1.) Keep arm at a consistent height throughout the swing.
2.) Allow my hand to be drawn through the swing with movements in this order.
a. Press into front heel
b. Small weight transfer to rear foot
c. Turn the left butt and knee toward the target
d. Weight moves slightly forward through the front butt
e. Hips turn around axis
f. Pulling shoulders around toward target
g. Shoulders pulling hand through to create whip.
Hope I am on the right track. Please jump in and correct this order if it needs adjustment. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[slowplastic]

Just make sure between f and g you get to an elbow forward position with the disc near your chest and approaching your right armpit/pec area. You don't want to "drag" the disc from the front, past your chest.

 

[lowesengineer]

Great point, that's the Reciprocating Dingle Arm part. I'll make that adjustment.

Thanks!

 

[lowesengineer]

I got an hour and a half in the field yesterday between the rain showers and the results in terms of form were disappointing. I feel like I am starting the throw with my head and that is getting my upper body outside the axis thereby slowing my rotation considerably. Keeping in mind I could be totally wrong, I would appreciate others to look at my latest video and continue to point out the things you see on which I need to continue to work.
One weird thing was that my throw average length was up 18' on average. Not sure what caused that, but if you see something that changed between the first video and the one from yesterday I would love to know what you see that changed for the better in case I need to keep that part going.
24 throws measured to length and then removed the feet from the center line.
Average distance was: 232'
Thanks for the help.

https://youtu.be/PifrMlcfxkg

 

[demon102]

Since you are having a problem keeping your throw and nip level you need to drill. Before every drive/throw I always try and perfect my technique, I've been going really hard as I'm training my left arm for BH throws now. AT first I take the disc and just kinda move the disc on a parallel plain as my nipples to train my arm to keep it at that level, once that seems perfected I drill the entire range of motion and eventually it turns into an almost perfect throw. IF I don't do this then my form is just all off.



Also I'd say add the x step, it's just so much easier to get distance. Again with this is all about drilling, I was doing this yesterday with my LHBH and my xstep is just horrendous lol but it's getting there with this type of exercise. It just takes time to wire the brain for muscle memory, apparently meditation helps you get here quicker as it helps the brain become more plastic and more easy to rewire. Maybe do some meditative breathing out there on the field to loosen you body and brain up to help you retrain yourself. I basically meditate the entire time I golf and I think it really helps as I'll be able to come up with new ways of throwing a disc that I've never even thought of and just learn quicker with and empty head as well. GL man.

 

[slowplastic]

Yeah you're still swooping your arm plane badly, but you knew that. Keep the disc flat/on the line you want even on reachback (don't twist it). I know some pro's twist it and it shouldn't matter...eventually...but right now it's a bad habit since the angles are all out of wack the whole way through.

Also you are leaning back then forward a little bit (spine tilting), which eventually gets your shoulders past your plant foot. Keeping your axis up and down without tiliting will go hand in hand with keeping your swing plane flat. Pretend there's a table/plane between your belly button and sternum, and you have to keep the disc on that plane the whole way.

One more thing, is your first forward motion involves your front foot opening (which means knee and hip open too). Everything has to come from the back foot/hip, you can't lead the throw at all.

But, your biggest power/distance soak right now is the plane issues with nose up. Sort that out and the discs will fly way further and straighter. You need to get the grip sorted out better for this too. Disc must be aligned or slightly nose down of forearm, which is your swing plane.

 

[lowesengineer]

Solid stuff. I am in the field today so long as the thunderstorms will hold off. Thanks for all the help.

 

[slowplastic]

Good luck. I am also a very analytical/scientific thinker, so I will give the advice/word of caution to try some throws by just letting go/letting it flow as well. Having this way of thinking has definitely helped to pinpoint issues along the way (along with help here) so I know what to fix...but lots of breakthroughs have happened when I just tried to "do the right thing" or copy a motion that works for pro's. When it flows/feels correct, there isn't any straining force and things stay in balance. When things go incorrectly, you feel like you need to use some muscles to stop from tipping over or to keep your arm going in the right direction/up to speed.

Once you have the plane thing sorted out, try to just get some throws to flow like the Dingle Arm video. The problem with thinking about the sequence too literally, is that what your mind tells you is happening to your body, and what you see in video afterwards, are often very different. Plus what feels correct ends up looking like the right positions afterwards. When things work...it makes the next step in the sequence work.

So right now, plane preservation being one of the first things being out of wack, it is real important to get that sorted out. But the great thing is you are quite well balanced at the end of the throw (other than tipping upper body), so things should advance nicely afterwards.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, all that stuff above, still spinning out your feet and hips and leaning, instead of keeping your feet into the ground firm and turning your hips(see understanding weightshift vid and hogan power move in post #6). Also keep your hand more underneath the disc in the backswing like Brinster below, your hand is on top the disc, it should feel different loading back, feel the weight of the disc through your hand/arm.

 

[lowesengineer]

New Video

What???? Is that me pulling a disc through at nip height? I think it may be. THREE hours in the field concentrating on nothing but ensuring that I pull the disc through at the right height and I finally made it happen. That is despite the fact that my front foot is still opening up before I do anything, leaning too far back causing me to start forward with my head still, and apparently I am not strong enough to hold the disc on the same plane as my forearm once I start the throw.

I had an interesting conversation with my son as he was home from school for a few days. I was explaining my poor form as he is not a disc golfer and he told me it sounded exactly like what they called a soft front in baseball. He played baseball in college and said that many players had to do drills that would develop a firm front which allows the hips to fire faster thereby bringing the hands through faster. The drill would be to drop onto the front heel and then lift the back knee up to your waste as you turn your hips. If you lean forward you will go on past your foot. If you are into a firm front, your knee will stop at your waste and fall back in place behind you. If you are rotating on your rear foot, you will not be able to lift your knee. Sounds a lot like the video HUB made.

So back into the field today to lock in bringing the disc through at the right height and figuring out a grip that will maintain the disc in the same plane as my forearm. Once that disc is in the correct position then I will move on to developing that firm front side.
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and please keep them coming. I can see change happening and I really want my form to be solid.

https://youtu.be/gvcKdaBfrEo

I measured 24 throws of the Classic Judge Putter at the end of the session and I have included the averages of each of the last few sessions.

Date-------Avg

5/4/16-----211
5/5/16-----214
5/9/16-----232
5/10/16----240

 

[esc1]

You could work on your reach back and pull through at home if you don't want to spend hours in the field.. even doing it in slow motion over and over helps with muscle memory

 

[BirdieMachine]

You could work on your reach back and pull through at home if you don't want to spend hours in the field.. even doing it in slow motion over and over helps with muscle memory

Agreed 100%, I've been a lifelong ball golfer (plus handicap) and disc golfer. Typically it takes a couple thousand reps over time of "correct" movement to ingrain that into the "muscle memory". I try and do just a simple drill I call the wall drill (works on plane and other things in slow motion). Just stand about 8 inches from an empty straight 6 foot wide wall. Just start with the disc at the right pec and disc touching the wall, reach back riding the wall, shift forward doing everything correctly in sequence and just stop at the point where the disc would rip out. Disc rides the wall the whole way.

This way you know you are on plane. You can go slow enough to focus on multiple things. Trying change even 1 thing in the field can be time consuming and difficult if you are unsure if you are doing it correctly meanwhile ingraining other poor habits.

 

[lowesengineer]

Agreed 100%, I've been a lifelong ball golfer (plus handicap) and disc golfer. Typically it takes a couple thousand reps over time of "correct" movement to ingrain that into the "muscle memory". I try and do just a simple drill I call the wall drill (works on plane and other things in slow motion). Just stand about 8 inches from an empty straight 6 foot wide wall. Just start with the disc at the right pec and disc touching the wall, reach back riding the wall, shift forward doing everything correctly in sequence and just stop at the point where the disc would rip out. Disc rides the wall the whole way.

This way you know you are on plane. You can go slow enough to focus on multiple things. Trying change even 1 thing in the field can be time consuming and difficult if you are unsure if you are doing it correctly meanwhile ingraining other poor habits.

I just want to ensure I am thinking of this correctly. Would the disc ride along the wall, or would it be the outside of my hand gripping the disc? I like the idea of the slow movements over and over, but I don't think I want to train my mind to drag the disc through vs. being on the outside of the disc. Can you clarify please?

Thanks

 

[BirdieMachine]

I just want to ensure I am thinking of this correctly. Would the disc ride along the wall, or would it be the outside of my hand gripping the disc? I like the idea of the slow movements over and over, but I don't think I want to train my mind to drag the disc through vs. being on the outside of the disc. Can you clarify please?

Thanks

Oh yeah for sure I should have been more clear. Your hand and forearm ride on the back, only the disc touches once you get past your elbow extension.

Then one of my thoughts is when I go play is to think of the wall drill, helps stop me from getting in some bad positions (opening up early, spinning mid/toe foot or dragging the disc inside on my backswing).

 

[slowplastic]

Definitely an improvement. Still look at your grip and keep the disc flat on reachback for now. There's still a bit of swoop and the putter is still going nose up at the end.

You are throwing a putter 240' from standstill...this is great (and I believe you are using some sort of punishing measurement where it has to be straight too). Are you throwing any mids and fairway drivers too? They will make the nose up more apparent, while the putter will show your torque. At this stage I would try to throw some other discs as well if you are not, as they will tell you other things about your form (and punish nose up, especially moving to a neutral speed 6/7 type disc).

Basically you know the issues that are still there at the moment. But I would still look at grip. In the next video maybe also include a shot of your grip...top, bottom, and side view so we can see how it lines up with your forearm.

 

[lowesengineer]

I took a little time at lunch to experiment a bit with my turn back and what is going on with the twisting and turning of the disc I am doing during that turn back. I threw for 30 minutes over a park bench that had a high back that forced me to keep my arm up. Now that is a quick way to learn to keep your arm up. Only hit the back of my hand once and I feel like that will never happen again.

I am going to practice again this evening and try and figure out what it is I am doing with the disc during the turn back. I will get a few shots of my grip as well to make sure that isn't the problem. I know I just copied the pictures as best I could but it appears that I need more pressure from my smaller fingers to keep the back of the disc from hanging down. I am going to concentrate on keeping my hand under the disc a bit as SW22 pointed out that I am on top of the disc.

Thanks again for all the pointers. Don't give up on me yet. I'm still working.

Thanks!

 

[lowesengineer]

Definitely an improvement. Still look at your grip and keep the disc flat on reachback for now. There's still a bit of swoop and the putter is still going nose up at the end.

You are throwing a putter 240' from standstill...this is great (and I believe you are using some sort of punishing measurement where it has to be straight too). Are you throwing any mids and fairway drivers too? They will make the nose up more apparent, while the putter will show your torque. At this stage I would try to throw some other discs as well if you are not, as they will tell you other things about your form (and punish nose up, especially moving to a neutral speed 6/7 type disc).

Basically you know the issues that are still there at the moment. But I would still look at grip. In the next video maybe also include a shot of your grip...top, bottom, and side view so we can see how it lines up with your forearm.

I can't tell you how correct you are. My disc is nose up so bad. I am looking directly at the disc when I take it back and I can tell it is going to be nose up the second I start forward. The problem is I don't see that until I look at the video. I got so frustrated that I quit throwing after this video and went and played a nice relaxed round. I know there are many issues with the form in this video but I was really only trying to get the nose down and get rid of the OAT.

Any ideas?

https://youtu.be/2gqC8YBWQT8

 

[NathanNoodleArm]

Try different grips, just mess around in the field trying every different one you can find.



The Bonopane will really get the nose down.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/gripittoripit.shtml

 

[slowplastic]

Yeah, read that article and make sure that the red line of the disc (first set of images) is parallel to or angled down of the blue line of your forearm. Also with the swooping motion you are still doing (bringing the disc down near your belly button then back up again at the release) you will always be throwing the disc upwards.

You can also try throwing a couple of nose down line drives at the ground 50' in front of you to get used to throwing line drives instead of upwards.

 

[lowesengineer]

New Video

The OAT is getting better, but the swing looks terrible. I am somehow starting the entire swing by leaning my head forward and that puts the swing on a terrible plane. From that point on it just gets worse. Any drills or something to work on to force me to keep my head behind my weight shift so that the swing plane can maintain some integrity. If the head goes forward, the swing is going to go down and then back up. I can see it, but have no idea how to fix it.
I did make some changes to my grip. It feels much better, but until I can stop my head from leading the forward move, I'm afraid I am stuck.

Thanks in advance for all the help and suggestions.

https://youtu.be/7G-YTlMe2kQ