slowplastic
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2014
- Messages
- 6,254
DD Suspect? I assume you've thrown them...where do they fit in with all those?
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[Innova] Innova Rat..
- Thread starter Aim For The Chains
- Start date
DD Suspect? I assume you've thrown them...where do they fit in with all those?
hartigan5279
Par Member
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2017
- Messages
- 122
Why not just stick with the Hornet then? Or look into a Verdict.
SD86
Banned
I haven't tried a Suspect. For whatever reason, I've never tried any DD mids, and only tried the Compass and Core from Lat64, and the Bard from Westside. So many discs, so little time...
SD86
Banned
I was thinking that while playing my round today... just put the Hornet back in the bag and be done with it.
Then after the round was done I stopped by the local DG store. They had several Star Rats (FR proto-stars) and I did not listen to my wallet screaming in protest. :doh: So I'll be trying out the Rat this weekend, fer sure.
opcorn:
SD86
Banned
Update: Rat v. AviarX3 v. Aviar3
There is a development for a subdivision behind my house, and lots of cleared land, so I took my Rat, Av3, and AvX3, all in Star plastic, out for some throws.
The Rat is a bit more shallow than the AvX3, and both are more shallow than the Av3. On throws into headwinds, the Rat and AvX3 held their own, but the Av3 turned over. Into tailwinds, all three flew well.
Thrown at full power, the Rat and AX3 went very straight and had a slight fade at the end. The A3 drifted a little right then barely faded back. On less than full power throws, and when trying to hit a target (newly installed cable box near the road), the Rat had more finishing fade than the other two, followed by the AX3, then the A3 with little fade at all. The Rat also showed surprisingly good glide on the lower power throws.
Distance wise, the Aviar3 falls short of the other two. The AviarX3 and Rat got pretty much the same distances, which surprised me that the AvX3 got more than I expected relative to the Rat.
I'll work more with the AvX3 and Rat, and see if they start showing any differences. As of now, they seem a bit redundant. The Rat may be the answer for those that might be seeking a shallow, more overstable version of the Stud.
There is a development for a subdivision behind my house, and lots of cleared land, so I took my Rat, Av3, and AvX3, all in Star plastic, out for some throws.
The Rat is a bit more shallow than the AvX3, and both are more shallow than the Av3. On throws into headwinds, the Rat and AvX3 held their own, but the Av3 turned over. Into tailwinds, all three flew well.
Thrown at full power, the Rat and AX3 went very straight and had a slight fade at the end. The A3 drifted a little right then barely faded back. On less than full power throws, and when trying to hit a target (newly installed cable box near the road), the Rat had more finishing fade than the other two, followed by the AX3, then the A3 with little fade at all. The Rat also showed surprisingly good glide on the lower power throws.
Distance wise, the Aviar3 falls short of the other two. The AviarX3 and Rat got pretty much the same distances, which surprised me that the AvX3 got more than I expected relative to the Rat.
I'll work more with the AvX3 and Rat, and see if they start showing any differences. As of now, they seem a bit redundant. The Rat may be the answer for those that might be seeking a shallow, more overstable version of the Stud.
wolfmandragon
* Ace Member *
I threw a friends Rat back to back against my JB Zone. The Zone is several months old, and baseline, and is still more OS than the Rat.
I was not impressed. I can see how this could help the pros, whom are limited to what they can bag, but I will not be buying this disc.
I was not impressed. I can see how this could help the pros, whom are limited to what they can bag, but I will not be buying this disc.
SD86
Banned
Did more range work today. Threw the Rat along with the AviarX3, Bard, Hornet, and Ti Buzzz. Winds at this schoolyard are normally straight headwinds or tailwinds, but today decided to be crosswinds and swirling, which was good and bad.
The Rat is nowhere near as overstable as the Hornet, or even the Bard. It gets less distance than the Buzzz and Hornet, and is 'competitive' with the Bard in that category. It's a bit longer than the AvX3, but not by so much that I feel any need to bag the Rat instead of the AvX3. It's redundant enough with the AvX3 that carrying both is unnecessary. And it's "caught up" between the approach discs and the faster mids.
I'll practice with it, but I won't bag it for rounds on the course.
The Rat is nowhere near as overstable as the Hornet, or even the Bard. It gets less distance than the Buzzz and Hornet, and is 'competitive' with the Bard in that category. It's a bit longer than the AvX3, but not by so much that I feel any need to bag the Rat instead of the AvX3. It's redundant enough with the AvX3 that carrying both is unnecessary. And it's "caught up" between the approach discs and the faster mids.
I'll practice with it, but I won't bag it for rounds on the course.
runningDoc
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- May 21, 2014
- Messages
- 1,602
I thew a proto star rat today on a lot of holes.
I usually bag a champion ring of gators (for sidearm approaches) and also sidearm P-P2 and S-P2 a lot.
It was a very interesting disc, because its not really overstable but does have a very predictable fade. Its also very good on hyzer approaches. I got a lot more distance that I expected on it with a lot less effort with side arm. I can comfortably get to 220ft with it on sidearm without muscling it.
A trouble spot I have in my game is the less than 150ft upshot that calls for a sidearm approach (weather it be because of wind/slope/hyzer approach).
I can manage that less than 150ft sidearm upshot with a ring of gators but hate having to compensate for its overstability (where you have to aim 10-15ft away and play the fade). I also will sidearm my P2 but then its even more touchy because you're sidearming a putter, so I can hyzer it but then have to compensate on my follow through. Also weather its the ring of gators or P2 I have to worry about sailing past the target and its hard to throw with less power and not timing it right.
It seems like the rat makes that 150ft and in sidearm upshot a lot easier by lessening the need to compensate for a gator's overstability but also takes the touchiness out of trying to sidearm a P2/putter.
on backhand i felt like the proto star rat was actually less overstable than a fresh s-line P2.
I only throw a select low number of molds (p2,rancho roc, gator, FD, Firebird, destroyer are my 6 main molds) and will add something like a wraith/CD3/shryke if the course has open holes that allow an understable high speed driver to be aired out.
But I'm seriously contemplating adding a star rat to my molds because of how potentially useful it might be.
the downsides I experienced with the proto star rat:
1. the flight plate was not as stiff as I'd like it. my s-line P2 flight plates were stiffer. this makes sidearms a little touchier for me where I can feel the flight plate bend where my fingers and thumb press down on sidearm.
2. thrown hard backhand it was actually pretty straight and less overstable than my s-line p2. so there is a lot of overlap on backhand hyzer upshot approaches. I almost want to go back and practice just sidearming my s-line p2 on hyzer and maybe just learning how to do that instead of adding a whole new disc/mold to my bag.
3. the rat name/graphic is corny. I know this isn't really a big problem, but damn it is for me. I guess I could deal with it just being labeled a rat, but a huge rat graphic makes me want to avoid ever buying stock stamps or just wiping it totally off.
I usually bag a champion ring of gators (for sidearm approaches) and also sidearm P-P2 and S-P2 a lot.
It was a very interesting disc, because its not really overstable but does have a very predictable fade. Its also very good on hyzer approaches. I got a lot more distance that I expected on it with a lot less effort with side arm. I can comfortably get to 220ft with it on sidearm without muscling it.
A trouble spot I have in my game is the less than 150ft upshot that calls for a sidearm approach (weather it be because of wind/slope/hyzer approach).
I can manage that less than 150ft sidearm upshot with a ring of gators but hate having to compensate for its overstability (where you have to aim 10-15ft away and play the fade). I also will sidearm my P2 but then its even more touchy because you're sidearming a putter, so I can hyzer it but then have to compensate on my follow through. Also weather its the ring of gators or P2 I have to worry about sailing past the target and its hard to throw with less power and not timing it right.
It seems like the rat makes that 150ft and in sidearm upshot a lot easier by lessening the need to compensate for a gator's overstability but also takes the touchiness out of trying to sidearm a P2/putter.
on backhand i felt like the proto star rat was actually less overstable than a fresh s-line P2.
I only throw a select low number of molds (p2,rancho roc, gator, FD, Firebird, destroyer are my 6 main molds) and will add something like a wraith/CD3/shryke if the course has open holes that allow an understable high speed driver to be aired out.
But I'm seriously contemplating adding a star rat to my molds because of how potentially useful it might be.
the downsides I experienced with the proto star rat:
1. the flight plate was not as stiff as I'd like it. my s-line P2 flight plates were stiffer. this makes sidearms a little touchier for me where I can feel the flight plate bend where my fingers and thumb press down on sidearm.
2. thrown hard backhand it was actually pretty straight and less overstable than my s-line p2. so there is a lot of overlap on backhand hyzer upshot approaches. I almost want to go back and practice just sidearming my s-line p2 on hyzer and maybe just learning how to do that instead of adding a whole new disc/mold to my bag.
3. the rat name/graphic is corny. I know this isn't really a big problem, but damn it is for me. I guess I could deal with it just being labeled a rat, but a huge rat graphic makes me want to avoid ever buying stock stamps or just wiping it totally off.
runningDoc
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- May 21, 2014
- Messages
- 1,602
its a once a year release from innova, a super/board flat champion gator that has a ring of gators stamp. (usually released in the fall).
its arguably the most overstable version of the gator. others argue that its the special glow champion gators, but for me the ring of gators is more overstable and stiff. it depends on the year though because some releases were slightly domey. last two years have been board flat and overstable though.
https://proshop.innovadiscs.com/champion-gator.html
Casey 1988
Shun the frumious Bandersnatch!
its a once a year release from innova, a super/board flat champion gator that has a ring of gators stamp. (usually released in the fall).
its arguably the most overstable version of the gator. others argue that its the special glow champion gators, but for me the ring of gators is more overstable and stiff. it depends on the year though because some releases were slightly domey. last two years have been board flat and overstable though.
https://proshop.innovadiscs.com/champion-gator.html
I thought the MF Champion Gator was the most overstable Gator ever made? More so if you got a flat top disc.
Casey 1988
Shun the frumious Bandersnatch!
Now I wonder would a Thumbtrack Stud be the same as a Rat but a tad slower? Call it a Warhorse or something with a horse name.
gerth_vader
Birdie Member
the thumbtrack stud was released already as the hawg
Casey 1988
Shun the frumious Bandersnatch!
No the Pig has no Bead, a Stud Has a big bead. Also Pig was out in 2008 and Stud was out in 2016. So if what you said was true then the Stud would have to be a Pig without a thumbtrack.
Nope
Pig vs Hawg. Two different discs
SD86
Banned
Doubt it. The Stud is a V-tech disc, so it and variations of it won't be overstable like the Rat.
gerth_vader
Birdie Member
actually not always the case. the vtech refers to the botoom of the disc as i call it. the lowest part of the mold. the bottom of the wing. this part of a disc doesnt always dictate stability and imo has more of an effect on fade. think pd vs firebird. a thumbtrack top does a lot
SD86
Banned
True, though I've found my several Star Studs to resist fading very much. Would a Thumbtrac make a big difference? I dunno.
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