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Jussi Situation

to me, all of the following quotes indicated that they believe the bare bones facts of the story as presented by Jussi to be the truth.



If the answer to "I don't think he procured the services of a trafficked sex worker because Jussi's statement did not address that" then I would totally accept that as reasoning for why these people think that. I am just wondering if there is some other information that I have missed.

All I said was that he owned up to what he did. He said he paid for sex with an adult, that was illegal, and he got caught/punished. That is what he did.

I never said that I don't think he procured the services of a trafficked sex worker....I don't know if he did or not. He might not have known. Can you walk down a "red district area" and tell which are trafficked and which are working voluntarily?

There can be other details to the story that we don't know about nor really need to know about. But....

1. The adult:
a. what age were they? What is considered adult in that country?
b. were they a female or male?
2. The person:
a. were they a true sex worker? They might have been a vice officer (or whatever they call them in that country) doing a sting (I've seen something that he went through a 'pimp', but even the pimp could have been a vice officer).
b. were they someone doing it freely? or were they someone forced to offer sex? (and how would Jussi know the difference?)


None of that really makes a difference. The fact is that Jussi offered/agreed to pay someone for sex, it was illegal, and he got arrested/charged. And he owned up to that.
 
What I'm curious about is your assertion that women's rights are further along in Nordic countries, but that women don't have the right to consent to engage in sex and get paid for it. To me that seems more like the puritanical attitude I'd hear from religious fundementalists as opposed to the "progressive" live and let live attitude I expect from Europe. Really there are valid arguments for both sides and I'm not interested enough to dive down the rabbit hole of them, but your comment just intrigued me.

Just wait until you learn US abortion laws are more progressive as well. And that their tax structure is generally less progressive. Europe is used as some sort of ideal for propagandists, but end of the day has the same conservative streaks as the US does.
 
I've been giving this some thought.....and...this is kind of long...

Jussi did not have to say anything about what happened. It's none of our business. Really. So why did he say anything? He's an important person in Discmania, a lot of information from DM comes from him. People would wonder why they haven't been hearing anything from Jussi - why are others reporting new releases, status of production, etc and not Jussi? My guess/assumption is that is the reason for the release of what happened - so we know why we won't be hearing anything from him. Basically...he did something illegal, got caught, got punished, and is spending time trying to work things out with his family and his life. That is what he told us; he owned up to his actions. He could have claimed it was a mistake, for example: maybe it is legal in his country so he thought it was legal where he was. But he didn't claim it was a mistake...he owned up to the fact that what he did was wrong. We really don't need to know the details. We don't have to agree with what he did - but we don't need the details; it's not our business.

Could it have been a trafficked sex-worker? Sure.
Could it have been a vice officer? Sure.
I'll bet the person never identified themselves to Jussi as a legal sex-worker, or a trafficked sex-worker, or a vice officer. And what would they say if he asked? He most likely thought the person was a legal sex-worker. But again, that isn't our business. All that is important is that Jussi won't be representing Discmania while he deals with the problems he caused and that he admitted to and owned up to his actions.

Yes, there are issues with some sex-workers being forced to do the work. And it is right to be upset/angry/whatever about that. But, in this instance, did the person (Jussi) know the status of the person? Here's something else to think about in this situation....is prostitution legal in Jussi's country? If so, could he have thought that it was also legal where he was at the time?

As for the people who no longer want to have anything to do with Discmania because of this - it's your right, but...do you ask every single company you deal with if anyone working for them has done anything illegal or that you disagree with? If not, maybe you are supporting a company that has someone who committed a much worse crime. Remember, while Jussi was the CEO of Discmania, he's not the only person that works for that company. By boycotting Discmania you aren't just hurting Jussi...you are hurting all the people who work there.

And for everyone on here, have you ever committed something illegal? If so, did you own up to it and let everyone know every single detail about it? Have you been let go from the business you worked at? If not, should we boycott that business until you are let go?

Finally, I don't support or agree with what Jussi did. He's married and shouldn't be going elsewhere for sex regardless of if it is legal or not. I feel sorry that people have to work as sex-workers regardless of if they are doing by choice or force. I feel sorry for Jussi's wife and family that they have to deal with this.
 
On a somewhat related note. I found an uninked Discmania Genius on hole 1 today. Gave it one throw and lost it deep in some thorns. It appears that disc F'd two of us and it wasn't consensual.

:clap:
 
So are we saying pay to play is a bad thing? :confused:

I thought that was the direction the sport was headed in. :\

When visiting a professional, pay to play course, I expect it to be well-maintained, with neatly groomed fairways. Hilly terrain and fun factor are important... maybe even some novelty, (as long as its not overdone). A couple of holes good enough to make picking a signature hole difficult. Bonus points if the strokes pile up, and it makes me use every shot in my bag (as long as it's not a beat-down).



edit: oops! Wrong thread! :eek:
 
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there seems to be an assumption by some in this thread that any woman who is trafficked or "managed" is necessarily unwilling. that doesn't logically follow at all.
 
perhaps one could use the analogy of buying stolen merchandise.

there is some legal responsibility on the part of the buyer when it comes to stolen goods. that is fair and one should have some suspicion when a dude is hawking electronics in a parking lot. but when the entire market for something is black and underground because it's illegal, then how is one to go about doing any due diligence regarding the moral implications of the circumstances?
 
there seems to be an assumption by some in this thread that any woman who is trafficked or "managed" is necessarily unwilling. that doesn't logically follow at all.

Trafficking, in the majority of cases, would involve women who wouldn't choose to do this if they had the option.

The definition is literally someone who is sexually exploited.

"Managed" brings different connotations, but still most likely lifestyle choices that lead to it.

Given that it was a Ukrainian woman and the information in the related article, it follows that it might not be something that they control or would choose to do in normal circumstances.
 
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Trafficking, in the majority of cases, would involve women who wouldn't choose to do this if they had the option.

The definition is literally someone who is sexually exploited.

"Managed" brings different connotations, but still most likely lifestyle choices that lead to it.

Given that it was a Ukrainian woman and the information in the related article, it follows that it might not be something that they control or would choose to do in normal circumstances.

That doesn't necessarily mean that she was coerced into prostitution. I'm pretty sure that 50 year old working the fast food drive thru doesn't want to be there and wouldn't normally do it if they didn't need to pay bills but **** happens in life. If that's what we're calling sex trafficking I have to say that's pretty loose. (giggity) Some of you can't seam to wrap your brain around the fact that some women want to be sex workers and enjoy it. Sorry to keep going to fast food (I must be hungry) but they are workers the same as that fast food drive thru person just minus the workers rights. I have known several sex workers who enjoy their work and wish they could unionize, pay taxes just like any other worker and they ought to have that right. If governments (especially those who claim to be "farther ahead on women's rights than anyone else" get off their high horses and asses we can destroy sex slavery. That's what happens when you legalize, tax, and regulate things, look at the ending of prohibition for example.
 
Trafficking, in the majority of cases, would involve women who wouldn't choose to do this if they had the option.

The definition is literally someone who is sexually exploited.

The definition is that the sex worker was transported across a border. The Feds make a big deal out of this because they only have jurisdiction if it crosses state or national boundaries.
 
That doesn't necessarily mean that she was coerced into prostitution. I'm pretty sure that 50 year old working the fast food drive thru doesn't want to be there and wouldn't normally do it if they didn't need to pay bills but **** happens in life. If that's what we're calling sex trafficking I have to say that's pretty loose. (giggity) Some of you can't seam to wrap your brain around the fact that some women want to be sex workers and enjoy it. Sorry to keep going to fast food (I must be hungry) but they are workers the same as that fast food drive thru person just minus the workers rights. I have known several sex workers who enjoy their work and wish they could unionize, pay taxes just like any other worker and they ought to have that right. If governments (especially those who claim to be "farther ahead on women's rights than anyone else" get off their high horses and asses we can destroy sex slavery. That's what happens when you legalize, tax, and regulate things, look at the ending of prohibition for example.


Wage slaves are still slaves, just with fewer O-faces.
 
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