[Other] Lack of transparency from disc manufacturers

[Serious-OLD]

There are too many variables to assure perfect consistency.

If you wanted to improve consistency, you'd probably need to work with more predictable materials, like harder plastics that would produce illegal discs / weapons.

Some variables are hard/expensive to control.

When you already dont have significant control over your plastic composition (which is arguably the most impactful factor in your controls), there may be very little point in spending a bunch of money to control the temperature, humidity, and atmospheric pressure in your production environment.

Its definitely worth considering your strategy for how to maintain the equipment you depend on, but I actually enjoy this part of the process.

It's probably why we're all here still discussing various molds when we have a bag full of perfectly good discs.

I actually enjoy picking up a destroyer once a year at some random disc golf or sporting goods store while I'm on a road trip just to see what Destroyers are doing this year.

C'est la vie!

 

[elmexdela]

Crappy old discs were SuperHype until the dusty racks were empty. Now new is SupaMoHype.



Silly Super Soft Gateway plastic
https://gatewaydiscsports.com/products/wizard-sss

wut about the magic or voodoo which also comes in sss

 

[seedlings]

wut about the magic or voodoo which also comes in sss

SSSame plastic.

 

[bbwrenn]

This is why I'm a huge fan of Millennium and Mint's serial number systems.

Even some runs/molds of Discraft from the late 90's and MVP from the early 10's which were two eras that were known for their consistency still had inconsistencies.

It's just part of petroleum and small plastic manufacturing. At least with the serial number systems, if I feel like I just GOTTA have that version 1.12 Omega SS, or that 2nd run Alpha, I can find it a lot easier with no guess work involved! :thmbup:

 

[HyooMac]

This is why I'm a huge fan of Millennium and Mint's serial number systems.

Even some runs/molds of Discraft from the late 90's and MVP from the early 10's which were two eras that were known for their consistency still had inconsistencies.

It's just part of petroleum and small plastic manufacturing. At least with the serial number systems, if I feel like I just GOTTA have that version 1.12 Omega SS, or that 2nd run Alpha, I can find it a lot easier with no guess work involved! :thmbup:

Mint's database is currently showing runs only through September 2020 (helpful to me, because I love the Sublime Mustang). The website promises an update covering runs through the 2022 calendar year.

(and they've put the data into AirTable! Now I wish they'd update their website)

 

[elmexdela]

SSSame plastic.

so then how do i know if i should use a wiz or voodoo or whatever to compare it to an aviar

"try driving with a SSS disc & then an Aviar driver. I'm sure you'll tell a difference in stability & distance!?"

 

[biscoe]

Even some runs/molds of Discraft from the late 90's and MVP from the early 10's which were two eras that were known for their consistency still had inconsistencies.

Cyclones in the mid-late 90's were among the most inconsistent discs I have ever dealt with. In theory green, purple and black were more OS than lighter colors.

 

[bbwrenn]

Cyclones in the mid-late 90's were among the most inconsistent discs I have ever dealt with. In theory green, purple and black were more OS than lighter colors.

That's awesome. It's funny how we can remember these things but I have no idea what I ate for breakfast yesterday.

Yeah, when I first started back on '07 I remember having some of these discussions with Kirk. If I remember correctly he felt that the Discraft putters and mids from the late 90s through the early 2000s were extremely consistent, but that getting into the drivers was more hit and miss. If I was looking for a particular flight out of a driver, he could definitely give me advice on what to look for. Basically acknowledging that nothing is ever perfect.

Off topic, but I imagine you guys probably know each other pretty well? Disc golf was a lot smaller world then!

 

[biscoe]

That's awesome. It's funny how we can remember these things but I have no idea what I ate for breakfast yesterday.

Yeah, when I first started back on '07 I remember having some of these discussions with Kirk. If I remember correctly he felt that the Discraft putters and mids from the late 90s through the early 2000s were extremely consistent, but that getting into the drivers was more hit and miss. If I was looking for a particular flight out of a driver, he could definitely give me advice on what to look for. Basically acknowledging that nothing is ever perfect.

Off topic, but I imagine you guys probably know each other pretty well? Disc golf was a lot smaller world then!

In general putters and mids are more consistent than drivers to begin with. I never really remember anyone having consistency issues with the slower discs from any manufacturer.

Kirk Yoo? If so I know him quite well- we even share a birthday.

Disc golf was definitely a small world then. I tell people now that I used to think i knew every tournament player from Charlotte to Philly. When I started in 94 I lived in Richmond and since there were pretty much no events in VA we played in NC all the time, Raleigh in particular. I learned most of what I knew about tournaments when I began running them from Carlton Howard and the Raleigh guys.

 

[Three Putt]

Cyclones in the mid-late 90's were among the most inconsistent discs I have ever dealt with. In theory green, purple and black were more OS than lighter colors.

Yeah, the rule of thumb with Cyclones were that the dark colors were more OS than the light colors. Discraft owes me several hours of my life that I will never get back debating if blue counted as a dark color or a light color. :|

 

[TheOtherBill]

 

[Innova63]

Yeah, the rule of thumb with Cyclones were that the dark colors were more OS than the light colors. Discraft owes me several hours of my life that I will never get back debating if blue counted as a dark color or a light color. :|

Depends on which Blue you are talking about...
The light Blues were definitely less stable than the darker ones...

 

[seedlings]

so then how do i know if i should use a wiz or voodoo or whatever to compare it to an aviar

"try driving with a SSS disc & then an Aviar driver. I'm sure you'll tell a difference in stability & distance!?"

I give up then. Stupid Silly Soft is the only SSS reference I could come up with
opcorn:

 

[Flick Maniac]

I used to be that backup-crazy dg'er. Now I just think its overkill. Have like 1-2 backups at the most. Dont play a ton nowadays tho but even when I did, I didnt lose all that many discs a season. If I DO lose all of the backups, boo for me, lets try something that is pretty close to what I had. My technique is not 100/100 the same anyway, especially across several seasons. It is what it is.

 

[ray1970]

I used to be that backup-crazy dg'er. Now I just think its overkill.

Same. My hoarding evolved from searching for that magical disc that would revolutionize my game to just wanting to buy discs to try something new to kind of setting into what I like and buying plenty of backups and now I'm about to enter the phase where I start to de clutter my hobby and free up space in my house and just enjoy the game.

 

[zendragon]

I used to be that backup-crazy dg'er. Now I just think its overkill. Have like 1-2 backups at the most. Dont play a ton nowadays tho but even when I did, I didnt lose all that many discs a season. If I DO lose all of the backups, boo for me, lets try something that is pretty close to what I had. My technique is not 100/100 the same anyway, especially across several seasons. It is what it is.

For me it's not about losing them, it's about them seasoning into something else. I only play once a week if that, but I have a very small bag and built it to cover all my shots with minimal to no overlap. I have 3 Patent Pending Craves that used to very straight/stable. They have all beaten in to have a little turn/less fade and no longer cover the shot I used them for. Since MVP took over manufacturing, I haven't been able to find a replacement beyond paying much more in aftermarket prices until this recent release of Plasma Craves. So while I'm not going crazy buying 10 of them, I am thinking of buying 3-4 of them to last me 4-5 more years or so with seasoning, hopefully longer, because who knows if this was a fluke for MVP or if they'll make more like this again.

I did the same for Wraths and Hexes. I bought 3 Wraths and 4 Hexes this year since I use them about as much as Craves, but I only bought 1 Resistor for a backup when they finally released a stable run again since it's a utility disc and I really only need the one backup.

 

[tomn8r]

wuts a sss disc

Gateways Super stupid Soft!

 

[tomn8r]

so then how do i know if i should use a wiz or voodoo or whatever to compare it to an aviar

To my knollege none of the gateway putters really compare shape-wise to an Aviar. But i'm not up to date on any newer disc they make either. But IMO if you find a GW disc that compares in shape but is in SSS plastic you wont have the same stability as a Aviar Driver, which are firmer.

 

[uncle pennybags]

I'm seeing a drying, like plastic pipe/conduit that becomes brittle with age. A probably related case is the plastic conduits I ran to my detached garage many years ago. When I removed them, I was surprised how easily I could splinter them. Even the below ground portions that saw no UV were brittle.

It depends on the material. Chemistry is compilated and I don't pretend to understand much...just enough to be dangerous.

 

[Three Putt]

so then how do i know if i should use a wiz or voodoo or whatever to compare it to an aviar

"try driving with a SSS disc & then an Aviar driver. I'm sure you'll tell a difference in stability & distance!?"

To my knollege none of the gateway putters really compare shape-wise to an Aviar. But i'm not up to date on any newer disc they make either. But IMO if you find a GW disc that compares in shape but is in SSS plastic you wont have the same stability as a Aviar Driver, which are firmer.

Warlocks are shaped like a beadless Aviar. When you hold a Warlock and an Aviar PandA, the Warlock feels beefier like there is more weight in the wing, but the shape is the same.