Lloyd Weema article in Ultiworld Disc Golf

[biscoe]

I'm thinking it's more like the PDGA doesn't want to lose the pro side to another (start up?) organization willing to do things better. Which in my opinion the DGPT could do...very...easily.

...only if all the donors/local pros are willing to go along with the touring players. Otherwise the lower end touring players become the donors and the whole thing falls apart very quickly. (Unless/until someone decides it is worth their hard earned to watch disc golf)

 

[Putt for D'oh]

players under 1000=added cash for the most part

Agree to a point, but from under 1000 to above 900 is a big big gap. Especially on the courses and events this rule is in effect.

at the very least, a 950 player probably has the skills but lacks the consistency to compete with 1000 rated players at these events (speaking from personal experience)

I agree completely. A 950 rated player could likely learn a lot more and have a bit of a breakout playing alongside the top pros at these events. 900 even or below? I'm not as sure.

 

[DiscFifty]

I played Advanced with a Rec rating and cashed..

Don't you mean.. "merched" ? lol..

 

[JohtoVillage]

Originally Posted by Jay Dub View Post
I think the touring pros who choose to live this life would get more support if they did more of the volunteer work so they can make more money instead of relying on the backs of sub-900 volunteers who get nothing for their hard work.

This is a really frustrating comment. So many touring pros volunteer their time teaching and training younger players (or newer players). Over the last few years, here are the touring pros I have asked to volunteer their time to do a clinic for me at Ledgestone or Worlds:

Nate Sexton, Madison Walker, Nate Perkins, Paul McBeth, Paige Pierce, Ricky Wysocki, Michael Johansen, Brian Earhart, Paul Ulibarri, etc etc etc etc. The list goes on and on. To say that our touring pros need to do more volunteer work is hard to see in written form. I can assure you that a lot of them spend considerable amounts of time growing the sport for no financial benefit.

And to be fair. I think Nate agrees with a lot of this... but being a board member probably can't give us an unfiltered take. And I completely understand.

In this case, no, I am sympathetic to the issues of touring pros in this regard. I feel that manufacturers should probably do more in the events registration side of things. If they are paying for entry fees for the players anyways, why not just have someone sign up the players so the click war/paycheck issue isn't an issue for them? I could foresee someone with each manufacturer taking on this responsibility for their various top level teams so these players do not miss the biggest events.

 

[DiscFifty]

...only if all the donors/local pros are willing to go along with the touring players. Otherwise the lower end touring players become the donors and the whole thing falls apart very quickly. (Unless/until someone decides it is worth their hard earned to watch disc golf)

Sponsorship, added cash, would be the primary focus in getting payouts I would assume if something like this ever moved forward. ?

 

[anhyzer24]

Part of the issue getting overlooked is that it isn't possible to sign up for everything all at once. Registration opens up at somewhat random times for events: sometimes it's 4 months in advance, sometimes it's 2 months in advance. Sure, it's easy for all the local players who have that one event on their calendar that they're checking up on to try to get entered, but for a touring pro that has to worry about keeping tabs on when registration opens up for 25-30 different events, it can get pretty tricky.

 

[jvphobic]

Part of the issue getting overlooked is that it isn't possible to sign up for everything all at once. Registration opens up at somewhat random times for events: sometimes it's 4 months in advance, sometimes it's 2 months in advance. Sure, it's easy for all the local players who have that one event on their calendar that they're checking up on to try to get entered, but for a touring pro that has to worry about keeping tabs on when registration opens up for 25-30 different events, it can get pretty tricky.

It is literally THEIR JOB to do that. Jees, create a Google Calendar. They know the schedule for the big events WAY ahead of time. LIKE RIGHT NOW. Reach out to each TD and ask when registration is going to open and put it on the calendar. Sure, if they were to miss an A-tier or something, I get that. But, if I told my boss that I couldn't keep track of all the things related to my job, I wouldn't have my job very long as an IT Manager.

Nate, I agree that the sponsors should/could be doing more for the players when it comes to the registration process. Heck, maybe that could be part of the Team Manager position. But, I also understand that coordinating 10 players schedule could be tough. What players are skipping what events.

Again, sympathy meter is REAL low.

 

[anhyzer24]

Geez, bringing up a topic doesn't equate to conjuring sympathy. I understand that it's on the players, I don't sympathize either.

If registration for a major event can occur at an arbitrary time, and it isn't publicly announced, then it absolutely will lead to some people being SOL. Our events are better when the best players are playing, right? I'm sure TD's don't want to get flooded with personal emails from 50 different players trying to figure out when registration opens, why not have a system in place or have that info emailed to the players? Sometimes it's posted on Facebook or something, but you can't assume that's gonna reach everyone.

 

[Streets]

Is there not some kind of Tour Pass situation?

 

[perklc]

If they are paying for entry fees for the players anyways, why not just have someone sign up the players so the click war/paycheck issue isn't an issue for them? I could foresee someone with each manufacturer taking on this responsibility for their various top level teams so these players do not miss the biggest events.

It is crazy to me if this isn't part of a team manager's job duties, at least for top players for the elite events. It seems to me like that should be a perk of reaching a certain level of sponsorship "For players on the Innova Champion team or higher, team manager will complete entries, including buy-in, for all NT, DGPT, and Majors that player intends to play"

 

[jvphobic]

Geez, bringing up a topic doesn't equate to conjuring sympathy. I understand that it's on the players, I don't sympathize either.

If registration for a major event can occur at an arbitrary time, and it isn't publicly announced, then it absolutely will lead to some people being SOL. Our events are better when the best players are playing, right? I'm sure TD's don't want to get flooded with personal emails from 50 different players trying to figure out when registration opens, why not have a system in place or have that info emailed to the players? Sometimes it's posted on Facebook or something, but you can't assume that's gonna reach everyone.

I agree that there can always be a better way. Someone could create a shared Google Calendar. Or an email group, or a FB group, a Slack Group. Ultimately it comes down to the player. Most of the events have some sort of website that is attached and linked to on the PDGA events page.

The DGPT has an option to register for all the events at once. The PDGA should probably follow suit.

If each manufacturer will pay me 10K, I will make sure that all their players get registered into all the largest events. I can be their personal assistants.

And I didn't mean to imply your feelings, I was simply speaking for myself.

 

[JC17393]

Geez, bringing up a topic doesn't equate to conjuring sympathy. I understand that it's on the players, I don't sympathize either.

If registration for a major event can occur at an arbitrary time, and it isn't publicly announced, then it absolutely will lead to some people being SOL. Our events are better when the best players are playing, right? I'm sure TD's don't want to get flooded with personal emails from 50 different players trying to figure out when registration opens, why not have a system in place or have that info emailed to the players? Sometimes it's posted on Facebook or something, but you can't assume that's gonna reach everyone.

Which "major" event is opening registration in secret or without publicity? I posted earlier in the thread a graphic that the DGPT circulated around this time last year identifying when registration for all of their 2019 events would open. I expect something similar will be posted this year. NT registration opening gets announced on the front page of PDGA.com and on their various social media outlets.

I don't play any of these events nor have an interest, yet I manage to catch these announcements in time to sign up if I wanted to. People for whom this is a full time job and their primary source of income should be at least as on top of these things as I am.

 

[biscoe]

If each manufacturer will pay me 10K, I will make sure that all their players get registered into all the largest events. I can be their personal assistants.

I will do it for 5 and throw in any random A-tiers they want along the way.

 

[jvphobic]

I will do it for 5 and throw in any random A-tiers they want along the way.

For only 5K you will be living paycheck to paycheck. How can you make a living like that. You will then have to ask the PDGA to make special exceptions for you with that salary.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

This is a really frustrating comment. So many touring pros volunteer their time teaching and training younger players (or newer players). Over the last few years, here are the touring pros I have asked to volunteer their time to do a clinic for me at Ledgestone or Worlds:

Nate Sexton, Madison Walker, Nate Perkins, Paul McBeth, Paige Pierce, Ricky Wysocki, Michael Johansen, Brian Earhart, Paul Ulibarri, etc etc etc etc. The list goes on and on. To say that our touring pros need to do more volunteer work is hard to see in written form. I can assure you that a lot of them spend considerable amounts of time growing the sport for no financial benefit.



In this case, no, I am sympathetic to the issues of touring pros in this regard. I feel that manufacturers should probably do more in the events registration side of things. If they are paying for entry fees for the players anyways, why not just have someone sign up the players so the click war/paycheck issue isn't an issue for them? I could foresee someone with each manufacturer taking on this responsibility for their various top level teams so these players do not miss the biggest events.

It's pretty rare for a top player to not sign up in time for these events. But it does happen sometimes. The player is 100% to blame. This however, has nothing to do with the fact that Lloyd Weema and similar should not be playing with these guys.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Should probably be called the Stork rule because we certainly wouldn't want a 70-year old professional, PDGA #003, with an 816 rating hacking around on Jackson or trying to cross Lake Eureka in the MPO division.

 

[biscoe]

For only 5K you will be living paycheck to paycheck. How can you make a living like that. You will then have to ask the PDGA to make special exceptions for you with that salary.

I was planning on doing something else with the other 23 hours in the day... you're right though- should probably go full time.

 

[DoWork]

I agree that there can always be a better way. Someone could create a shared Google Calendar. Or an email group, or a FB group, a Slack Group. Ultimately it comes down to the player. Most of the events have some sort of website that is attached and linked to on the PDGA events page.

The DGPT has an option to register for all the events at once. The PDGA should probably follow suit.

If each manufacturer will pay me 10K, I will make sure that all their players get registered into all the largest events. I can be their personal assistants.

And I didn't mean to imply your feelings, I was simply speaking for myself.

Couldn't agree more.

My mind is continually blown at just how bush league so many of these professional teams are "maintained". It boggles my damn mind that there is not a team coordinator at these bigger disc manufacturers whose job it is to organize players, ensure they're signed up for all required NTs, their fees are paid and they have travel arrangements to get there. Step beyond that, that same coordinator should be lining up clinics, disc sales, meet & greets, school tours (think EDGE curriculum)... I could go on for days. Maybe weeks- but NONE of this is in play and it would behoove these manufacturers greatly to put more into maximizing the exposure and demographic contact of their athletes.

It takes ONE person to pull it all together for your company and your star athletes and provide far greater return on your most visible marketing assets. Start putting in professional level effort if you want professional results, and demanding your $12k/year winnings earner do it on their own is GARBAGE MENTALITY. Period.

#rantover

 

[shyguy30]

This rule is just one more bullet point in the argument that the PDGA doesn't care about lower-rated players. They should be grateful they get the opportunity to volunteer at tournaments and have touring pros come within earshot of them once in a while so they can hear the pros' complaints.

 

[VictorB]

This rule is just one more bullet point in the argument that the PDGA doesn't care about lower-rated players.

Disagree. If they didn't care, there wouldn't be any Am Majors. Or they'd restrict lower level players from playing in MPO at all levels.

Just think of it like you have to qualify for these events now. Do you think the PGA US Open just lets anyone play? Nope, gotta qualify.