Lloyd Weema article in Ultiworld Disc Golf

[DanJon]

So when one signs up for PDGA ""professional''" membership do they need a +900 rating? Or just $75??

It is interesting that the PDGA relabeled MPO from Men's professional open to Mixed professional open to not limited the division. Yet they come straight back and limit the division.

As many have mentioned this is a solution in search of a problem.

Well, this just put it into the perfect perspective for me.

The PDGA will gladly take your money to sign up as a "pro", but won't let you play in all of the "pro" tournaments.

It really is laughable.

 

[brutalbrutus]

No. It was actually in Chattanooga on a mountain during freezing rain. I went to walmart at lunch to get dry clothes as I was not prepared. I actually got booed when my name was announced cashing. I've found the disc golf culture down south to be very cliquish.

Sounds familiar. That CCS at Harbin was just miserable. 33 and raining sideways for the first round. We were actually happy when it started sleeting during the 2nd rd, lol...

 

[davetherocketguy]

I mean you get into the give and take thing.

For me I've TD'ed tourneys and ran leagues, found sponsors and donated prizes, showed up on work days and cleared courses, designed temp courses and showed up before the sun was up to set out baskets, run a kids program to teach disc golf...I given a lot. I really haven't received much in the way of anything tangible in return, so I get to be in the "giver" category.

Now a touring pro had to practice more, focus on their own success to play better, and their hope is to win prize money and take that resource out of the game and put it in their pocket. By the very definition of what they do, they are in the "taker" category.

I don't think you can ever get around that. Paul McBeth can't volunteer for enough work days to even out what he has "taken" from the sport if that is how you are defining it.

In an alternate view, Paul McBeth does more for the sport by being Paul McBeth than a whole army of small-time local volunteers like I have been could do. He gets youtube views, he gets on ESPN, he drives disc sales...just by the act of being him he promotes the sport in ways a small-time local volunteer can't.

Plus I've done what I've done knowing I wasn't getting anything tangible in return and that was never the goal. It doesn't really matter how much I've volunteered to the game, I decided to do that. Other people have decided to do more, and I respect those people, but I don't own them anything. Just like someone who has volunteered less than me doesn't owe me anything.

So touring pros take resources out of the sport that others put into the sport. That's the deal. That's what having touring pros is. The people putting those resources in are OK with that or they wouldn't do it. It's the deal we make.

I'm okay with this so long as the touring pros are respectful of the backs they are making a living off of.

 

[DanJon]

This is a really frustrating comment. So many touring pros volunteer their time teaching and training younger players (or newer players). Over the last few years, here are the touring pros I have asked to volunteer their time to do a clinic for me at Ledgestone or Worlds:

Nate Sexton, Madison Walker, Nate Perkins, Paul McBeth, Paige Pierce, Ricky Wysocki, Michael Johansen, Brian Earhart, Paul Ulibarri, etc etc etc etc. The list goes on and on. To say that our touring pros need to do more volunteer work is hard to see in written form. I can assure you that a lot of them spend considerable amounts of time growing the sport for no financial benefit.



In this case, no, I am sympathetic to the issues of touring pros in this regard. I feel that manufacturers should probably do more in the events registration side of things. If they are paying for entry fees for the players anyways, why not just have someone sign up the players so the click war/paycheck issue isn't an issue for them? I could foresee someone with each manufacturer taking on this responsibility for their various top level teams so these players do not miss the biggest events.

So these top pros, who are building a brand and selling signature discs, have no financial benefit in spending a small amount of time with new players?

Come on.

 

[DanJon]

Back when I was really into BMX, the manufacturer teams had Team Managers, whose job it was to sign up their pros for contests and other related functions.

There was a lot less money in BMX back then, so why doesn't Pro Disc Golf follow that model if it's soooooo difficult for Joe Blow Top Pro to go to the library or turn on his smartphone?

 

[BionicRib]

I wonder what Joey bishop thinks of all this? 923 now....

 

[biscoe]

in regards to making events less and less inclusive

I feel like World's lost something when it became a smaller and more exclusive event

I think most of us who had attended it years ago feel the same way but I can see the motivation for dividing it. It also lost something when the number of rounds was drastically reduced but at least they went back on that a little.

 

[biscoe]

I'm okay with this so long as the touring pros are respectful of the backs they are making a living off of.

The vast majority are. A few most decidedly are not. The few tend to stand out in your mind after they leave rather than the many. We had 2 "ladies" who were openly abusive to volunteers at USWDGC- I wrote their sponsors about it with good results from one company and a bunch of bull**** from another. IMO the sponsors should police their players better, just because a player is really good at throwing discs does not make them a good rep for a brand. It will be an interesting off season to me for this reason.

 

[filobedo]

The vast majority are. A few most decidedly are not. The few tend to stand out in your mind after they leave rather than the many. We had 2 "ladies" who were openly abusive to volunteers at USWDGC- I wrote their sponsors about it with good results from one company and a bunch of bull**** from another. IMO the sponsors should police their players better, just because a player is really good at throwing discs does not make them a good rep for a brand. It will be an interesting off season to me for this reason.

Not surprising at all. Some of these women are with other disc golfers going nowhere in life and have nothing outside of the sport socially. Their only friends appear to be other disc golfers so they never get to experience anything outside of the sport with a diverse group of people with different interests. Not to mention a particular manufacturer, but over the past several years, several touring players appear to only have friends and fanboys that play dg and cater to their egos even though they have no chance of ever winning anything significant. Several also mooch constantly by wanting free room and board and a local caddie at each tour stop.

 

[_MTL_]

I wrote their sponsors about it with good results from one company and a bunch of bull**** from another.

Next time you do an event, order from the company with good results and email them and let them know why.

And then when you don't order from the other company, email them and let them know why.

 

[biscoe]

Next time you do an event, order from the company with good results and email them and let them know why.

And then when you don't order from the other company, email them and let them know why.

There is more than one company who I will never purchase from due to the behavior of their sponsored players.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

Wow, you are out of touch.

If you are playing on a public course, then yes leagues don't get any precedence over other players who want to use the course at that time.

They do get precedence where I am at, and regardless, it is pretty crappy for a player to barge into the middle of a league. It basically says that "my game is more important than this league". Those that give no respect, deserve no respect.

 

[mmblink86]

What I find interesting is one of the consistent complaints of the PDGA is not caring about pros enough, not caring about standards enough and not caring about professionalism.

Yet this move directly is made to address those reasons and people seem to be against it.

ROFL. this move was made to quell the entitlement attitudes that "pros" carry.

there are MANY sub-900 players that have more professionalism and care of PDGA standards in their pinky nail than the majority of 1100+ rated "pros".

 

[biscoe]

They do get precedence where I am at, and regardless, it is pretty crappy for a player to barge into the middle of a league. It basically says that "my game is more important than this league". Those that give no respect, deserve no respect.

By "barge into the middle of a league" do you perhaps mean "attempt to play the course at the same time as leagues are occurring"? Silly me...here i was thinking that public parks are indeed public.

 

[Jugular]

ROFL. this move was made to quell the entitlement attitudes that "pros" carry.

there are MANY sub-900 players that have more professionalism and care of PDGA standards in their pinky nail than the majority of 1100+ rated "pros".

Number of 1100+ rated pros: 0

So, yes, I agree totally.

 

[mmblink86]

Part of the issue getting overlooked is that it isn't possible to sign up for everything all at once. Registration opens up at somewhat random times for events: sometimes it's 4 months in advance, sometimes it's 2 months in advance. Sure, it's easy for all the local players who have that one event on their calendar that they're checking up on to try to get entered, but for a touring pro that has to worry about keeping tabs on when registration opens up for 25-30 different events, it can get pretty tricky.

it's call a calendar. there's even a app for it on your iphone.

even better, use MS Outlook. i'm sure the manufacturers have MS Office licenses.

why not provide training to your sponsored "pros" so they can develop real-world skills that will translate to other jobs they will need during/after their playing careers?

oh wait, that's right, "pros" don't even know they're on the job when they're playing at a tournament. why should we think they'll take anything else seriously, like managing their money and schedule?

 

[mmblink86]

Number of 1100+ rated pros: 0

So, yes, I agree totally.

bravo, you win the funny award! surprised no one caught that sooner

 

[ballgolfconvert]

By "barge into the middle of a league" do you perhaps mean "attempt to play the course at the same time as leagues are occurring"? Silly me...here i was thinking that public parks are indeed public.

Your rights end when they impinge on others rights. If a league starts on holes 1-9, then you need to start elsewhere. If you jump in the middle you are a world class jerk, reserved course or not. It really is that simple. If some folks are playing full court basketball at a public park and you want to practice free throws, what do you do? Do you barge on the court and tell them you have the right to shoot when and where you want? Not a recipe for success in my opinion.

 

[Three Putt]

This issue as it relates specifically to World's makes sense if you look at where they have moved the event.

A few years ago I remember this same issue being addressed and somebody (I think it was Graham) conceded that World's was more of a big party for the membership than it was a competitive event. It was a big get-together with a big flymart and party atmosphere, especially the combined Pro/Am World's. The point that was being conceded was that they couldn't do something like limit registration since there was no support from the membership to cancel the party.

Then a few years ago they canceled the party. Age-protected divisions were peeled off. The focus became squarely on the competitors. World's mirrored USDGC except with a Women's division. They managed to do that without much of an outcry, which surprised me a bit. The entire event was fundamentally changed; fewer course, fewer rounds, fewer divisions...and everybody seems OK with it.

Since the party is cancelled and Lloyd Weema didn't get the memo and keeps showing up for it, it really doesn't surprise me at all that they are taking the step to uninvite him. If you are OK with where World's has moved to as an event over the last 4ish years, you are OK with a move to a more "professional" event and cutting sub 900 rated players shouldn't really be an issue.

 

[keepitfun]

This issue as it relates specifically to World's makes sense if you look at where they have moved the event.

A few years ago I remember this same issue being addressed and somebody (I think it was Graham) conceded that World's was more of a big party for the membership than it was a competitive event. It was a big get-together with a big flymart and party atmosphere, especially the combined Pro/Am World's. The point that was being conceded was that they couldn't do something like limit registration since there was no support from the membership to cancel the party.

Then a few years ago they canceled the party. Age-protected divisions were peeled off. The focus became squarely on the competitors. World's mirrored USDGC except with a Women's division. They managed to do that without much of an outcry, which surprised me a bit. The entire event was fundamentally changed; fewer course, fewer rounds, fewer divisions...and everybody seems OK with it.
Since the party is cancelled and Lloyd Weema didn't get the memo and keeps showing up for it, it really doesn't surprise me at all that they are taking the step to uninvite him. If you are OK with where World's has moved to as an event over the last 4ish years, you are OK with a move to a more "professional" event and cutting sub 900 rated players shouldn't really be an issue.

The new generation of human is more introverted and doesn't really care about socializing, in fact they think it's weird to talk to people. Sad truth. They view disc golf as a means to compete and to watch on their smartphones in their lifeless apartments because they refuse to buy a house lol

The old days of fun and enjoying one anothers company are over

thank you new generation for destroying Lloyd.....his blood is on your hands