Looking for forehand advice

[JcBook]

I'm a 90% forehand thrower due to an injury to my shoulder that doesn't allow me to throw backhand. I've thrown a lot of different discs and they all have about the same flight path. Most of my drives are going about 200' and at the end are almost turning over and crashing hard.

Every time I head out with my one friend he hands me a disc to throw and it goes great but then when I purchase the same model I can't throw it at all. Also I'm not sure if I what weight disc I should be throwing. My friend says to stay at 170 and above but the 163-165 2013 Ace Race Disc I have, I can get it to fly the best consistently.



http://youtu.be/NnhoHBigyE0

 

[JcBook]

 

[Fraser]

You have a very smooth throw and you aren't "strong-arming" it. Don't change that. The two most obvious things that need to be worked on is 1.) you don't have any weight shift (short distance) and 2.) wrist-roll (causing the turn-and-burn).

1.) Due to lack of any weight shift, you are throwing nose-up which is causing the discs to stall early. Your weight needs to be centered over your front foot when the disc leaves your hand. In all three of those throws, your weight is behind your lead foot when the disc starts flying. The easiest way to correct this is to throw from a stand-still. Load your weight on your back foot and as you start your forward swing, transfer your weight to your front foot. This will be some trial-and-error as you will have to figure out the timing. Once you learn the timing, adding a run-up will be easier to get the correct timing. (Another thing that helps learn the weight shift is to concentrate on throwing low; around 3-5' off the ground.) This should be enough for your mids and fairways to land in the 180'-240' range. (The only time I use a run-up is to throw further than 260'; my max-d is ~400'. And the run-up is mostly used to create forward momentum.)

2.) Keep your palm to the sky after the disc leaves your hand. This will keep the disc from turning over just after release. Controlling your wrist angle throughout the follow-through will help you learn how to shape lines. Rolling your wrist is the #1 reason for unintentional OAT (off-axis-torque).

As with a BH, being smooth and having a complete follow-through are very important. You can get some great distance strong-arming with a FH but this can easily cause damage to your body. Distance should come from smooth acceleration (arm-speed, not arm-strength) and wrist-snap (inducing spin).

The same principles in a good BH throw are the same for a FH.

As for disc selection, work with neutral to slightly overstable mids and slow fairway drivers while working on your throw. Overstable discs will mask a lot of problems in your swing and teach you how to throw hard and not smooth. Discs that are too understable will lead to a lot of frustration because you won't really see any results because they won't be able to cope with any OAT in your throw.

As for disc weight, throw what you are comfortable throwing. Disc weight is very subjective. Only you can really decide what will work best for you. I tend to throw weights in the 168-max weight range but I also carry some 150 class discs too.

 

[JcBook]

I'm pretty new and still learning the whole under/over stable thing. I bought a 10pack of misprinted discs from discraft and thats mostly what I have been practicing with. They are the first 10 and number 11 I won.

Here is what I have in my bag:

NukeSS 167-169g
Nuke 164-166g
SurgeSS 173-174g
Flick 170-172g
Stalker 170-172g
XPress 173-174g
Glide 173-174g
Zombee 173-174g
BuzzzSS 177+
Buzzz 167-169g
Buzzz 177+

Champion Groove 170g
Valkery 168g
2013 Ace Race 167-169g
2013 Ace Race 160-163g <--- My best thrower has a nice S
Buzzz 169g

These three I bought as a set, I would throw the leopard more but it turns over about 5 feet in front of me. Feels to flimsy/light.
Leopard 150g
Shark 150g
Aviar 150g

 

[Fraser]

I wouldn't use the Nukes, Surge or Flick while learning. They are either too fast or too overstable. (The Flick is a fantastic utility disc. Just don't use it for learning.)

The Glide is too understable. (But can be a good turnover disc once you've learned how to throw properly.)

The Stalker (slightly overstable), XPress (neutral, understable), Zombee (slightly overstable) and your Buzzzes are where I would start.

I would get rid of the Groove. That mold is extremely hit-and-miss. There are some good ones but the vast majority are unpredictable.

The Valkyrie is a great disc and you should learn to throw it. It is a fast fairway driver that has very long distance potential.

I have no experience with the 2013 Ace Race disc so I can't comment on it.

The 150 class starter pack contains some great molds. However, the lightweight won't help you with your FH. Those molds in heavier weights would be great discs to learn with though. The lighter weights (150 class) help newer players get the discs up to speed easier (with a BH throw) but for newer players throwing FH, they don't really need to worry about getting those discs up to speed. A FH typically generates a lot of initial arm-speed but relatively low spin-rate. Combining lots of spin (wrist-snap) and arm-speed (and again, not arm-strength) will generate long distances.

Combining what I mentioned earlier, working on generating as much spin as you can is paramount in throwing FH for distance and control.

 

[Fraser]

As for a basic definition of over/under stability, overstable discs like to get to the ground fast (have a lot of fade) and understable discs, when thrown properly, will turn more in the opposite direction of the fade.

Stable and overstable discs for RHFH like to go straight and then land to the right of your thrown line. The more overstable, the more right they will finish. They can be easier to control and work well with headwinds.

Understable discs like to go straight and either land straight ahead or off to the left slightly. They hold anhyzers (thrown with the wing opposite of your grip more upward " / ") longer than neutral to overstable discs. They also like to "flip up" to more of a flat flight when thrown with hyzer (thrown with the wing lower than your grip " \ " while neutral to overstable discs will hold the hyzer line easier. Understable discs also act more stable/overstable with a tailwind. They are also a little harder to control.

 

[Script]

Instead of loading you up with tips, one of the best tips I got (I'm a 90% forehand player) was keeping your palm to the sky. This will teach you to throw anything and keep it nose down.

You do have a clean followthru, keep working at it.

 

[sidewinder22]

You x-step the wrong way, granted there are guys that can throw far stepping that way, but it's much easier to get the hips into it and your weight by reversing your x-step. Then wait for your weight to get into the front foot/leg before throwing and stay low.

 

[TylerM]

I throw almost exclusively RHFH off the pad. My maximum distance is probably 350, but 300 is pretty easy. I throw an xcalibur primarily.

That being said, I agree with Fraser about the stand still practice. After a knee injury, I was forced for a while to throw while being very still. When I recovered, I had gained probably 30-50 feet.

Also, your arm should stay closer to your body as you throw. Your elbow should almost rub your side as it passes. As your arm passes your body, you pivot and extend the arm.
Hope that helps! Disc on!

 

[Dan Ensor]

You x-step the wrong way, granted there are guys that can throw far stepping that way, but it's much easier to get the hips into it and your weight by reversing your x-step. Then wait for your weight to get into the front foot/leg before throwing and stay low.

Wrong which time? He does 1 Ricky step and 2 Hokom steps.

I find the Hokom step to be more controllable. Everything stays in line better for me. Not that I have even a useable forehand, but I have worked on it a lot.

 

[Fraser]

You x-step the wrong way, granted there are guys that can throw far stepping that way, but it's much easier to get the hips into it and your weight by reversing your x-step. Then wait for your weight to get into the front foot/leg before throwing and stay low.

Wrong which time? He does 1 Ricky step and 2 Hokom steps.

I missed that part of the throw...
Yup, he does demonstrate two different x-steps.

I find the Hokom step to be more controllable. Everything stays in line better for me. Not that I have even a useable forehand, but I have worked on it a lot.

When I x-step, I bring my right leg behind my left. I aim with my left shoulder (instead of my torso) so this helps me get in the right position quicker. This, however, used to cause a lot of toe drag. I've been working on getting a more complete follow-through by pushing more off the back foot and getting the foot off the ground. This has led me to the same distances I was getting but with less power.

 

[sidewinder22]

The first x-step is better IMO. Wysoki, Hokom, and Avery have the non-x-step which are the last two. I use more of a crow hop like Big Jerm and use Avery's grip.

 

[Dan Ensor]

The first x-step is better IMO. Wysoki, Hokom, and Avery have the non-x-step which are the last two. I use more of a crow hop like Big Jerm and use Avery's grip.

Whoops thought Ricky had the right foot behind the left x-step.

I crow hop right foot in front of the left.

I get my lead foot planted more open rf in front. Which I believe leads to better hip explosion. (That's what I was told in ball golf.)

So ... Ricky and Hokom both x-step one way, and are the highest rated forehand dominant players in their respective divisions, and you suggest doing the opposite of them?

 

[sidewinder22]

Whoops thought Ricky had the right foot behind the left x-step.

I crow hop right foot in front of the left.

I get my lead foot planted more open rf in front. Which I believe leads to better hip explosion. (That's what I was told in ball golf.)

So ... Ricky and Hokom both x-step one way, and are the highest rated forehand dominant players in their respective divisions, and you suggest doing the opposite of them?

Yes. Scott Stokley also did the non-x-step and threw a country mile FH. I think that works against natural body mechanics and momentum, which produces more torque though for better or for worse. Rating has more to do with putting and mental game than it does good FH mechanics.

Maybe I crow hop backwards, I played mostly pitcher/SS so I'm used to striding from a closed position which would mean the right foot goes behind the left. It's like playing QB and throwing on the run to the left or right, all would say it's easier/more natural to throw on the run to the right, but some might throw further running to the left because you have to wind up further back for more torque, and they would all say it's harder to throw running to the left. Most people say Big Jerm has the smoothest FH and he x-steps right foot behind the left foot and strides forward closed like a pitcher.

 

[Dan Ensor]

I was a catcher with an affinity for snap throws down to first

 

[JcBook]

wow thanks for all the replies.

I was watching this video and was the technique I was going for in my run up.

 

[sugarnot]

Granted I always feel weird giving advice simply because I think everyone can use a little work in one way or another including myself....BUT things I see, or what it looks like.

You seem too upright, so much of your power comes through your legs...additionally although you want to be facing forward at the end of your throw it almost seems as if you are getting there too early. All in all it doesn't look as if there is any power going into your throw due to lack of hip rotation and not using your legs. I can't really explain this that well versus if I was there to show you or work with you as you throw.

 

[LeBryson James]

All I really see is wrist roll which is causing your discs to turn and burn.

Watch this clinic



Sarah Hokom does a wonderful job of teaching sidearm.

 

[JcBook]

Updating: I did switch my run up and throwing style a little. Today I was throwing in a open field and I could feel that everything kind of come together and click. Disc weren't wobbling or diving down to the right. Thank you guys. I'll get another video together tomorrow.

 

[davetherocketguy]

One thing I hear people say every now and then is that there are some discs that cannot be flicked. I used to be one of those people. But now I've discovered that every disc in the bag can be flicked and flicked with extreme predjudice. What needs to be kept in mind is adjustments need to be made so for example sometimes the more flippy the more likely you will need to release it wing down. I have a Sidewinder that is my go-to throw it as hard as possible laser straight FH disc with an itty bitty fade at the end but needs to be released at about 30 to 45 degrees off horizontal. And just like some BH discs some seem to be a little more finicky with the FH and some aren't. Just have to get out to a field and try it. You can even FH putters with grace and ease - but that takes a little more practice.