Max Distance Needed To Be 1000 Rated?

[slowplastic]

On your local course 400' is fine with a VERY solid game. For example, say that on a course you have birdied 15+/18 holes at some point in your life. So you are capable of hitting -15, which I'm sure is an insane rated round to rival what Paul or Ricky would do. Do you do that? No, you shoot -3 typically. So your distance isn't holding you back, your consistency, putting, head games, etc. are holding you back. Now sure if you threw farther you could have a different disc selection and throw more putters/mids and maybe your score would be -6 or better typically with the same upshot and putting game. But if your putting skills and mental game increased maybe you're shooting -10 or better all the time.

However, take that to a championship level course. I played a golf course recently that is laid out with very long holes, I have a 400' arm, and played as well as I possibly can within my abilities and shot a few down. No missed upshots and no missed putts essentially. At best in that wind I could expect maybe 2 strokes better if I played everything perfect, which nobody ever does. Is that even close to 1000 rated?...I doubt it. But if I had 450' I bet that would bring in like 8 more birdie opportunities. At 500' that course would get torn up. On some courses 400' doesn't even get you into the possibility of shooting 1000 no matter how good the rest of your game is. Too many 425-450' shots that needed a hyzer line with OB straight-long, so I might as well tone back and throw 375' dead straight, no risk of OB ever, easy upshot, take a 3, move on.

 

[bnbanbury]

I'm willing to bet that there are a lot of Masters/grandmasters that are between 990-1010 that only throw 400. A lot of those top older players put up hot rounds with wild rollers and flawless putting. How far does Moser throw in the air? Maybe 450 max? He's been over 1000 rated for a very long time.

If you look at this years masters championship there is not a single 50+ guy that is 1000+ and there are a bunch in that field that are excellent putters and accurate (just to reinforce the point about distance). Moser can still throw over 400' in the air but you're right not super long. He can still throw a roller a mile though.

 

[SonicGuy]

Distance is the most important factor in having a chance to reach 1000 rating. If you can't reach several of the holes designed for gold level, your other skills only help you avoid those poor rounds that will pull down your rating average. The thing about having 400+ open hole distance, is that your wooded distance potential is likely high enough to be able to throw mid-range discs and sometimes putters over 325 on a low ceiling rope. Power is rewarded on almost every hole including putting from longer distances without changing your mechanics.

I disagree with one of your ancillary statements. Putting range and driving power are completely unrelated. In fact, driving form and putting form are often inversely related. The longer my drive the worse my putting gets, because of how different the kinetic motion is.

 

[Steve West]

...
I'm guessing today's pros would all be in a good position to deuce this hole, right?

The PDGA site lists 349 pages of "Pros". Sorted down by rating, the last 1000+ rated player is the first player on page 10.

So, I'm guessing there are a lot of today's "pros" that would not be in a good position to deuce this hole.

 

[takman]

That I think is a better question.

I routinely throw 450 can throw 400 accurately most of the time and have a solid scramble/ approach game.

Wouldn't say I'm a bad putter, but probably more on the Will side of the spectrum. I've thrown up some 1050 rounds but my rating hasn't topped 970 yet.

What year Will are comparing yourself to? What do YOU think is keeping you under 970 with 450 and 400 accuracy?

 

[Cgkdisc]

I disagree with one of your ancillary statements. Putting range and driving power are completely unrelated. In fact, driving form and putting form are often inversely related. The longer my drive the worse my putting gets, because of how different the kinetic motion is.

Once the basket designs began stopping discs, the foot forward line drive putt became dominant versus lofting them. That requires more energy to keep the disc high enough the farther back you get from the basket. I submit that the stronger the player, the farther back they can still putt with the same motion before needing to switch their foot position and arm swing to generate more energy behind their throw. It's more obvious with straddle putters like me who can maintain their feet side to side while moving back to a certain distance before having to start dropping one of their feet further back to get enough push.

 

[wolfmandragon]

Personally, I can get more distance with a straddle than foot forward. I am more accurate foot forward though.
I do a full Russian Swing motion on my straddle to get that power

 

[Lazerface]

Once the basket designs began stopping discs, the foot forward line drive putt became dominant versus lofting them. That requires more energy to keep the disc high enough the farther back you get from the basket. I submit that the stronger the player, the farther back they can still putt with the same motion before needing to switch their foot position and arm swing to generate more energy behind their throw. It's more obvious with straddle putters like me who can maintain their feet side to side while moving back to a certain distance before having to start dropping one of their feet further back to get enough push.

I see what your getting at, but I think "stronger" is the wrong word. I think folks that can putt with a simple motion from far out just have a very clean release and good weight shift. I don't think strength has anything to do with it. Simon has always baffled me how he can "putt" 75 footers in what seems to be a very simple motion. just a little flick of the wrist. It's more about whatever innate properties people with a fast/smooth release have. Call it muscle twitch or whatever.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I see what your getting at, but I think "stronger" is the wrong word. I think folks that can putt with a simple motion from far out just have a very clean release and good weight shift. I don't think strength has anything to do with it. Simon has always baffled me how he can "putt" 75 footers in what seems to be a very simple motion. just a little flick of the wrist. It's more about whatever innate properties people with a fast/smooth release have. Call it muscle twitch or whatever.

I agree "strength" may not be the correct word. However, whatever "it" is for putting seems to be correlated with the ability to throw farther.

 

[Moose33]

What year Will are comparing yourself to? What do YOU think is keeping you under 970 with 450 and 400 accuracy?

I'm a little worse than Shustrick on one of his bad days putting. His overall game is much better obvs.

It's mainly the fact that I don't play as many rounds as I need to to get better, and injuries/life get in the way of enough practice time.

 

[slowplastic]

I agree "strength" may not be the correct word. However, whatever "it" is for putting seems to be correlated with the ability to throw farther.

Agreed. When I have something click in backhand, sometimes I can mirror it to my FH. When I got better weight shift in my drives my putting range went out at least another 15'. The fundamentals definitely correlate when you apply them. However the mental side of putting is obviously incredibly important.

If you look at top players you can see they have similar attributes in their BH and FH. Eagle is lengthy and loose almost in both his shots. McBeth is upright and clean. Sexton is hunched/tilted and leads with the lower body a ton. Even Hokom has the same extension/waiting type thing before forward movement in both her FH and BH.

 

[lyleoross]

I don't agree with any aspect of this post. I have been racking my brain for 1000 rated guys who max out at 400' or less and i can't think of a single one (and have played with a bunch). I don't agree with David at all. 450+ of power lets you throw mid ranges 350 and putters 300' which greatly affects your ability to score.

It is definitely not true that if you have an accurate game you will be "as long as your body allows". There are lots of players who throw accurately at relatively low speeds and are not getting nearly the power they could be if their mechanics were different. I used to be one of them.

Let me try again. I suspect you may have had accuracy, but not consistency. And you may not have been as accurate as a top pro? Perhaps you were? One way or the other, you need both accuracy and consistency, and at a high level. Accuracy, at 200 feet is not accurate. Guys on the beach can do that. Hitting your line at 300 feet is getting there. If you don't have the accuracy to hit your line at 350 feet consistently, you're not really accurate, you're playing pitch and putt. You might be very good at it, but you've not really pushed your mechanics in a meaningful way.

The question, "what distance is necessary to be a 1,000 rated player" is misdirected. The number of players that can throw 400 feet, or even 450 is substantially higher than the number of 1,000 rated players. I see lots of them. They are rated 950 often enough. Clearly, distance is not the only component.

If you have the mechanics to throw 500 feet you might well be a 1,000 rated player, but to get out that far you have to know a lot about your throw.

Consistency comes from knowing your throw and how the different components come together. If you're feeling it, that isn't good enough. Go listen to Paul's interview with Steve on the last Pro Tour episode. He talks about how adjusting one element of his throw impacts the other parts of his throw. That is a very deep and nuanced knowledge of his mechanics.

That kind of knowledge leads to an increase in distance, accuracy and consistency. They go together, IMO.

 

[slowplastic]

The question, "what distance is necessary to be a 1,000 rated player" is misdirected. The number of players that can throw 400 feet, or even 450 is substantially higher than the number of 1,000 rated players. I see lots of them. They are rated 950 often enough. Clearly, distance is not the only component.

If you have the mechanics to throw 500 feet you might well be a 1,000 rated player, but to get out that far you have to know a lot about your throw.

If you have the ability to throw 450' and are consistent with your shots and mechanics, you will be able to throw 1000 rated rounds anywhere. If you are a 400' thrower and are consistent, I think you can throw 1000 rated rounds on many courses but not all. Too many long par 3's on championship level courses that are unreachable no matter the consistency of the player. It's unreasonable to expect someone to hit 60'ers all the time because they can't throw far enough. Maybe one or two a round, but really those are bonuses and they'd be playing for par where the 450+ thrower is playing for birdie.

If you are a 500' thrower, then that would be like many of us playing a course that has holes 275-325' typically. You can mess up and still have a putt. I'm guessing haha

 

[sidewinder22]

Too many long par 3's on championship level courses that are unreachable no matter the consistency of the player. It's unreasonable to expect someone to hit 60'ers all the time because they can't throw far enough.

All they really need to do is get par on those long par 3's for 1000 rating. It's typically those 1020+ raters that might get decent looks to birdie those long par 3's.

 

[lyleoross]

I'll never find it, but a year or so ago, Ian Anderson said during one of his broadcasts that one thing a pro had going for them is an ability to adjust during a round. When something goes wrong they know enough about their mechanics to recognize what they had done wrong and fix it. He compared that to us mere mortals where when something goes wrong we don't know what it is and often enough don't figure it out till after the round when it's too late. This comment struck me at the time. It has two components, knowledge of your game and an ability to apply that knowledge on the fly. I'd argue that the top skill necessary to hit 1,000 is that intimate knowledge. With it comes the distance, whatever that might be. You can't have distance without a lot of knowledge gained through field work. Last, I don't remember the book, but it's the one where the guy writes that to be expert at something you have to do it 10,000 times. Uh yup.

 

[lyleoross]

If you have the ability to throw 450' and are consistent with your shots and mechanics, you will be able to throw 1000 rated rounds anywhere. If you are a 400' thrower and are consistent, I think you can throw 1000 rated rounds on many courses but not all. Too many long par 3's on championship level courses that are unreachable no matter the consistency of the player. It's unreasonable to expect someone to hit 60'ers all the time because they can't throw far enough. Maybe one or two a round, but really those are bonuses and they'd be playing for par where the 450+ thrower is playing for birdie.

If you are a 500' thrower, then that would be like many of us playing a course that has holes 275-325' typically. You can mess up and still have a putt. I'm guessing haha

If you throw 500 feet on a 325 hole you're probably not putting. Just sayin'.

 

[lyleoross]

Slowplastic raises a great point. Increasingly, TDs are making these over 500 foot par three holes. I'd hate to think that we would allow that to be the defining skill that determines a highly rated player. Can you throw 500 feet and hit a long putt? If you did, then you could make distance the most important component of the game, but it would be a pretty boring game for me.

 

[sidewinder22]

Last, I don't remember the book, but it's the one where the guy writes that to be expert at something you have to do it 10,000 times. Uh yup.

Outliers by Gladwell

 

[IHearChains]

Also there is the need to balance out the lower-rated rounds. To be 1000-rated, you'd need a 1020 round for every 980 round, and two 1020s for every 960, and so on.

 

[IHearChains]

Slowplastic raises a great point. Increasingly, TDs are making these over 500 foot par three holes. I'd hate to think that we would allow that to be the defining skill that determines a highly rated player. Can you throw 500 feet and hit a long putt? If you did, then you could make distance the most important component of the game, but it would be a pretty boring game for me.

Call it a par 4 if you want, and call the 2 an eagle. Wouldn't change the ratings at all.