Max Distance Needed To Be 1000 Rated?

[takman]

This has been well documented in golf and Utiliworld has run an article on it as well. There are statistics that bear this all out and it should be evident as people compare the number of golfers who get to 1000 with superior distance and ok putting vs the number of amazing putters who are short off the tee that distance is the driving factor here,

Here is Utiliworld's article with plenty of stats if anyone cares: https://discgolf.ultiworld.com/2018/03/08/saying-go-drive-dough-putt-show/

For my argument I don't care, because those stats are from two NT events with the best players in the world. If I'm a 350 max guy trying to reach 1000 rated, look for me at the 5,000 ft C-Tier, not the 10,000 ft NT. Remember, it's minimum distance to attain 1000, not to beat Ricky.

 

[lyleoross]

You're talking about players that all have great distance, and in that case the separating factors are of course going to be other skills. When everyone has plenty of D off the tee putting, upshots, mental edges, ect. will all be more important than even more distance.

But to your proposed experiment, if the group working on short game exclusively will not hit 1000 at all, leaving the only group with the capability of reaching 1000 the group with distance.

This has been well documented in golf and Utiliworld has run an article on it as well. There are statistics that bear this all out and it should be evident as people compare the number of golfers who get to 1000 with superior distance and ok putting vs the number of amazing putters who are short off the tee that distance is the driving factor here,

Here is Utiliworld's article with plenty of stats if anyone cares: https://discgolf.ultiworld.com/2018/03/08/saying-go-drive-dough-putt-show/

There's a bunch more article of similar nature in golf publications.

I will read the article, thanks. I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding about throwing far, how it comes about, and the best way to get it. There's a reason why so many players tell newbies to work a putter or a midrange to develop good distance skills.

Golf is a fundamentally different game than disc golf. Your focus when hitting the ball is to hit it center and square so that the ball flies straight You aren't even throwing the ball like we throw a disc. Too often, we conflate the rules of golf with the mechanics of disc golf. The two aren't related. The rules of golf are related to the rules of disc golf, the mechanics of play have nothing in common, whatsoever.

 

[bnbanbury]

Just playing devil's advocate here, but the initial question in this thread is "minimum distance needed to be 1000 rated", not easiest way to be 1000 rated.

Yeti didn't have 400 feet of power when he was 1000 rated for almost 10 years. Therefore the minimum distance is less than 400 feet.

Just because, for whatever reason, I am particularly bothered this morning by people being wrong about this - I have dug up footage that I knew i had seen at some point of Reading parking a 357' low ceiling shot at the 2013 us masters. It is at 27:20 of the linked video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogKC9DdhOCU

I don't think that even as short as Jay is that he was a 350 max guy. I will concede that he was less than 400' and that if you are truly one of the best putters in the world you can achieve a rating of 1000 and have a max distance of a little less than 400'. Those guys are the farthest outliers on the data plot though.

I guess i'll try and figure out why i care so much in therapy.

 

[dorseymatt]

For practical purposes, it seems that, in 2018, you need to throw over 400 feet to have a chance to at being consistently rated 1000 or above.

Some people have given examples of people who throw about 350 and have been 1000-rated in the past. The fact that it happened in the past may be relevant, as the top of the field is throwing further and further (and scoring better and better), which changes what a 1000-rated round actually is.

Erik Smith is an interesting example. I've played with him several times and would put his distance in the neighborhood of 375. He was last rated 1000 in 2012. He is still very active (and a super nice guy), but has been in the 970s and 980s for the past few years. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a number of other examples of guys who were fringe 1000-rated players five years ago, but no longer quite have the distance to maintain a 1000 rating (but most certainly can shoot 1030 or something, given the right conditions/breaks).

The last time Yeti was rated 1000 or above was in 2016, which is still the modern era, in disc golf terms. I would imagine he throws 400 max, maybe a little less, but is known as a world class putter, to put it mildly.

There are probably isolated examples of other guys who are great putters and throw no more than 400 feet currently being 1000-rated. If so, I'd like to hear about them. But I imagine they are very rare. I'd be surprised if any less than 99% of current 1000-rated players throw over 400 feet.

 

[BionicRib]

Any 1000 rated players who max out at 340 want to chime in? We need a lil help here

 

[slowplastic]

The better my form has become from working on distance, the more accurate my <250' shots have become too.

Distance and short range shots are not separate skills, if you work on distance and at least practice shorter shots 1/4 the amount, they will improve a ton. Less shanks at high power means almost no shanks at easy power.

Putting is a different skill. But what you learn from weight shift and body balance/mechanics from distance throws, you can apply to putting and get better form and range. Of course hitting those putts is all about practice, and hitting them in pressure situations is another different skill.

It's almost like people want to find excuses for not throwing farther. I know I can throw 1000 rated rounds on many courses, and it's not my distance that is holding me back, it's my consistency. But on other courses, my distance is definitely holding me back from being capable of getting anywhere near that score.

Remember, even the top tier pro's make several mistakes every round. It's only the couple of rounds they throw a year that there are zero mistakes that hey hit close to 1100. It's unreasonable to expect someone to throw perfection to get to 1000 because their distance lacks. Sure it can happen for a round, but that's not going to be an overall player rating.

 

[dorseymatt]

I'm not trying to be a debbie downer about this. By all means, keep the dream of being 1000-rated alive if you can only throw 350 feet.
But you may find that adding 50 feet of distance will help you more than you think, and working on improving your inside-the-circle putting might help you less than you think (relatively!).

Full disclosure: I am 949-rated and throw over 400 feet. Hah.

 

[bnbanbury]

I will read the article, thanks. I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding about throwing far, how it comes about, and the best way to get it. There's a reason why so many players tell newbies to work a putter or a midrange to develop good distance skills.

Golf is a fundamentally different game than disc golf. Your focus when hitting the ball is to hit it center and square so that the ball flies straight You aren't even throwing the ball like we throw a disc. Too often, we conflate the rules of golf with the mechanics of disc golf. The two aren't related. The rules of golf are related to the rules of disc golf, the mechanics of play have nothing in common, whatsoever.

I am someone who spent years as one one of the shortest throwers in advanced and have slowly clawed over 400' through hours of field work and studying film I understand the mechanics of distance better than most.

If you think there are not shared mechanics between golf and disc golf power you are, again, incorrect. The brace and the way the hips need to fire to create distance has a tremendous amount of overlap between the two sports.

 

[bnbanbury]

I'm not trying to be a debbie downer about this. By all means, keep the dream of being 1000-rated alive if you can only throw 350 feet.
But you may find that adding 50 feet of distance will help you more than you think, and working on improving your inside-the-circle putting might help you less than you think (relatively!).

Full disclosure: I am 949-rated and throw over 400 feet. Hah.

Not being a debbie downer at all. People should be realistic if they have a goal of being a 1000 rated player. It is much easier if someone maxes out at 350' to break down their form and improve off the tee than it is for them to become one of the best putters in the world.

 

[dorseymatt]

Not being a debbie downer at all. People should be realistic if they have a goal of being a 1000 rated player. It is much easier if someone maxes out at 350' to break down their form and improve off the tee than it is for them to become one of the best putters in the world.

I think some people believe they could never, no matter how much time they put into it, throw over 350 feet. So, to them, if they believe they can never, no matter what, be 1000-rated, maybe that's hard to hear.

I think what a lot of people don't get is that if they rebuilt their throw, they could probably add distance quicker than improving 5% inside the circle.

I'm lucky in that I've developed good power through sheer practice, rather than truly fiddling with my mechanics in a real technical sense. But I can empathize with people who believe they are "practicing" a lot with their distance throws and not really improving. (not saying you don't as well. in fact, I think you have a really unique understanding of what it is like on both sides of the 400 foot fence)

 

[DinosaurThunder]

The difference in distance needed is - 1000 rated player on tour vs. 1000 rate local pro. Most courses in MN you could get by with 350' of power (assuming accuracy) and could shoot some great rounds. I would think areas filled with wooded courses could see the same thing.

 

[slowplastic]

If you think there are not shared mechanics between golf and disc golf power you are, again, incorrect. The brace and the way the hips need to fire to create distance has a tremendous amount of overlap between the two sports.

100% true. Every athletic motion is so similar once you get it. RHBH and a right handed punch overlap a ton once you understand weight shift and hips even if they seem so different. Same with RHBH and a RH golf swing even though they are mirrored, different planes, and one handed vs. two handed. I hit the driving range less than once a year, and from disc golf form I was hitting 7 irons 170 yards...sure not crazy for an avid golfer but it was all from disc golf.

It's why some people are "naturally athletic"...they understand that weight shift and how everything should feel, and just apply it to the next sport. It's not just about being big or strong, obviously.

 

[lyleoross]

Okay, skim read the article. Shame on Howard for writing such tripe without thinking a little. He did an analysis of two tournaments, the Memorial and Las Vegas. Umm, what do these two tournaments have in common? Let me think? Oh yeah, they are regularly panned as being boring cause they are on big open chunks of land with little nuance. Of course the only skill that matters on those venues is, "longest arm wins." Do the same analysis for Maple Hill, Nox, De La etc.

Even here, a real analysis would have balanced distance and other factors, say, accuracy at distance, both length and angle.

If we want our sport to be long open holes where the only skill that matters is distance, and we are conceding that point, then yes, distance is the most important skill. But there is a reason Paul and Ricky win, their distance is accurate, and consistent. Distance isn't enough, it has to be combined with other skills, even if they are just skills that enhance the value of distance.

From my meager and anecdotal recollection, what I hear most often in video is how close Ricky and Paul land their shots relative to the basket. The Nates get this too. What I hear go wrong for so many long players is, "he's pin high, but 100 feet out." Well, that's all good on a big open hole, but in the woods, 100 feet out is 150 feet short too cause the player hit a tree.

 

[1978]

For my argument I don't care, because those stats are from two NT events with the best players in the world. If I'm a 350 max guy trying to reach 1000 rated, look for me at the 5,000 ft C-Tier, not the 10,000 ft NT. Remember, it's minimum distance to attain 1000, not to beat Ricky.

If you are accurate up to 300 ft can make 80-90% 30ft putts and have all the get out of trouble under 200 shots you can be 1000 rated. Likely, with all that practice, your distance would increase too. I think most of this thread understands what you mean and that you arent talking about running around averaging 1000 on winthrop gold. For most local B and C tier events (and in some a full schedule of 10-20 events per year) I was between 990 and 998 for almost 2 years without throwing any shots over 330 and I KNOW I missed 2-5 inside the circle per round. 1 additional putting stroke per round and I would have been 1000 rated golf. My play was about 1020 rated and my putting maybe 970. I played all over the east cost.

#41561

So people can make big long posts to the contrary but since I did it (basically), and witnessed it, the answer is 100% you do not need more than 330 worth of distance to be 1000 rated. You just need to drive like I did and make 2 extra of the 4 putts I missed per round.

 

[lyleoross]

I am someone who spent years as one one of the shortest throwers in advanced and have slowly clawed over 400' through hours of field work and studying film I understand the mechanics of distance better than most.

If you think there are not shared mechanics between golf and disc golf power you are, again, incorrect. The brace and the way the hips need to fire to create distance has a tremendous amount of overlap between the two sports.

The shared components you're writing about are shared across many sports. Baseball has similar mechanics. But if your argument rests on the similarities of swinging a club, and throwing a disc, I'm not going to agree.

 

[lyleoross]

100% true. Every athletic motion is so similar once you get it. RHBH and a right handed punch overlap a ton once you understand weight shift and hips even if they seem so different. Same with RHBH and a RH golf swing even though they are mirrored, different planes, and one handed vs. two handed. I hit the driving range less than once a year, and from disc golf form I was hitting 7 irons 170 yards...sure not crazy for an avid golfer but it was all from disc golf.

It's why some people are "naturally athletic"...they understand that weight shift and how everything should feel, and just apply it to the next sport. It's not just about being big or strong, obviously.

Exactly, so you need to set aside the shared components and look at the differences. If you're telling me that a pull through on a disc is the same as a club swing, I'm gonna disagree. BTW, even the mechanics of leg movement are pretty different. I've yet to see a ball golfer take an X step run up and open his hips up the opposite way than is done in golf, which is what we do in disc golf.

All of that is irrelevant, the basic notion that because distance in golf matters, it is the same in disc golf is dependent on too many factors to draw a conclusion. Start with putting. As so many have written, putting in disc golf is very different than in ball golf. Our green is bigger etc. You can't make a judgment out of golf and apply it to disc golf without a whole lot more data than has been provided.

The basic idea that what matters most is distance, hasn't been tested. I need more than a rather weak article in Ultiworld to convince me that there is data that proves this point. Until then, the data I see is that other factors matter more than just raw distance.

 

[lyleoross]

As an aside, even in golf, the notion that distance without accuracy somehow wins, is too much to believe. Accuracy, and consistency along with that distance has to be a given.

 

[lyleoross]

https://pluggedingolf.com/important-thing-golf/

A great ball golf article on how strike consistency leads to - accuracy, distance, spin rate etc. They are all related.

If you google the topic, you see that dozens of articles come up tying the three things together. They go hand in hand.

 

[sidewinder22]

Locally, Erik Smith was 1000 rated for a while without much more than 350 golf distance.

I have played with both Eric and Hunter and would give them both more than 350'.

I've seen Erik throw 400' on the course. Maybe he gained some distance but dropped in rating?

What happens if we switch the OP question around to the Happy Gilmore Award... What is the furthest you can throw without being 1000 rated? I can name quite a few guys in the 200 meter club.

 

[bnbanbury]

If you are accurate up to 300 ft can make 80-90% 30ft putts and have all the get out of trouble under 200 shots you can be 1000 rated. Likely, with all that practice, your distance would increase too. I think most of this thread understands what you mean and that you arent talking about running around averaging 1000 on winthrop gold. For most local B and C tier events (and in some a full schedule of 10-20 events per year) I was between 990 and 998 for almost 2 years without throwing any shots over 330 and I KNOW I missed 2-5 inside the circle per round. 1 additional putting stroke per round and I would have been 1000 rated golf. My play was about 1020 rated and my putting maybe 970. I played all over the east cost.

#41561

So people can make big long posts to the contrary but since I did it (basically), and witnessed it, the answer is 100% you do not need more than 330 worth of distance to be 1000 rated. You just need to drive like I did and make 2 extra of the 4 putts I missed per round.

We were both at the 2014 USADGC. I actually only had 330' of power at the time and i remember going through that course and realizing that I could only physically reach a handful of holes on that monster layout. You on the other hand shot -9 54 for the second best round in the field.

In Charlotte most courses don't require 400' shots, but power to let you throw slower discs still matters.