- Joined
- Jul 29, 2009
- Messages
- 15,726
16 so far, soon to be 19.
Hitting Maple Hill, 501, and Brakewell Steel/Warwick next week .
Hitting Maple Hill, 501, and Brakewell Steel/Warwick next week .
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Movement in top 10
- Thread starter Mando
- Start date
My backyard made the list. Cool.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Played 35 of the 50; designed 4 of them. Not sure if any TR reviews have been done on the current layouts. Highbridge Gold is currently down to 9 holes but with two baskets and two tees on each hole for a mix & match choice of four gold level 9s to play 18. Blueberry has just been upgraded to two tees and two baskets on each hole. Granite has had two baskets on each hole since last year with maybe half of the holes with short tees. So, it will take a while before these courses have 5-10 TR reviews on the current layouts.
A couple things about this top 50 list and DGCR reviews. Seems like reviewers primarily rate the longest layout and it gets bonus points if it's for the gold or blue skill levels with minimal credit for equal quality layouts for lower skill levels. It's hard to know for sure but I'm thinking Maple Hill might still be as highly ranked, even if they didn't have tees and pins for red, white and blue skill levels. I realize one reason is that reviewers feel they should only review the layout they played which is likely the longest on the site. Makes sense from the standpoint that you can usually see what it looks like from any shorter tees as you walk past them.
I've been developing a new parameter called Playability that ranks the quality of the tees & targets provided for the number of skill levels being served in the permanent layout. For example, a course with two quality tees and two quality baskets would theoretically serve four different player skill levels at the same time. Its Playability score is somewhere between 3.5 - 4 based on the quality of the baskets and teeing areas. At the other end of the scale, a course with one tee, one basket and one alternate anchor on each hole might rate up to 1.5 Playability if everything is top notch.
The tricky part is how much Playability should weigh in relation to the other parameters that are being valued in a DGCR review. For example, now that Highbridge Gold is down to 9 holes with two tees and targets on each hole, it truly plays like two independent 18-hole layouts on top notch terrain where it got its older ratings. Here's a shout out to Dan Doyle who got things started in the 90s with two tees and two baskets on every hole at Brakewell Steel / Warwick Park which is still T19 on this chart.
I've been using Playability to encourage local Park Depts who have been thinking about upgrading their older Mach baskets with newer model baskets to just keep the older baskets in shorter positions, especially if they already have alternate anchors on several holes. I show them where their current course ranks in Playability compared with other Twin City courses and where it would rank if they upgrade with two baskets per hole and even adding two concrete tees per hole.
A couple things about this top 50 list and DGCR reviews. Seems like reviewers primarily rate the longest layout and it gets bonus points if it's for the gold or blue skill levels with minimal credit for equal quality layouts for lower skill levels. It's hard to know for sure but I'm thinking Maple Hill might still be as highly ranked, even if they didn't have tees and pins for red, white and blue skill levels. I realize one reason is that reviewers feel they should only review the layout they played which is likely the longest on the site. Makes sense from the standpoint that you can usually see what it looks like from any shorter tees as you walk past them.
I've been developing a new parameter called Playability that ranks the quality of the tees & targets provided for the number of skill levels being served in the permanent layout. For example, a course with two quality tees and two quality baskets would theoretically serve four different player skill levels at the same time. Its Playability score is somewhere between 3.5 - 4 based on the quality of the baskets and teeing areas. At the other end of the scale, a course with one tee, one basket and one alternate anchor on each hole might rate up to 1.5 Playability if everything is top notch.
The tricky part is how much Playability should weigh in relation to the other parameters that are being valued in a DGCR review. For example, now that Highbridge Gold is down to 9 holes with two tees and targets on each hole, it truly plays like two independent 18-hole layouts on top notch terrain where it got its older ratings. Here's a shout out to Dan Doyle who got things started in the 90s with two tees and two baskets on every hole at Brakewell Steel / Warwick Park which is still T19 on this chart.
I've been using Playability to encourage local Park Depts who have been thinking about upgrading their older Mach baskets with newer model baskets to just keep the older baskets in shorter positions, especially if they already have alternate anchors on several holes. I show them where their current course ranks in Playability compared with other Twin City courses and where it would rank if they upgrade with two baskets per hole and even adding two concrete tees per hole.
As an old guy with a short arm I always play the shortest layout available. In my opinion a course that only has 1 layout should be downgraded
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2009
- Messages
- 15,726
Whut a bunch of course nerds we are...
I got 24 of those 50, grateful for that.
biscoe
* Ace Member *
Why? You can only play one at a time. Are you supposed to take the quality of each layout into account when rating the one you play? I can think of at least a couple courses with multiple pin placements where the added layouts should result in a downgrade if that is the case.
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2009
- Messages
- 3,227
At Maple Hill, I loved that I could play a layout (white) appropriate for my skill level on the same course that I'd watched the pros on. Even though gold is I'm sure the focus, the white layout was excellent. I've got Maple Hill #1 on my personal list, primarily because of the quality of the layout that I played. I give the course bonus points because if I improve (or more likely regress) there will still be an excellent layout that fits my skill level.
At Rollin Ridge, I thought all of the extra tees and pins were too much. There were several holes that I thought would have played better if they didn't clear space for additional tees, baskets and fairways.
Two tees and two baskets per hole, yielding 4 distinct layouts, seems like the ideal way of designing a course for a wide range of skill levels. Easier said than done, I'm sure. It's got to be very challenging for the designer to make sure each layout maintains a high level of quality.
Three and three at Rollin Ridge seemed like overkill imo. The gap in difficulty between the toughest and easiest layouts isn't so big as to require 7 intermediate layouts. You end up with a bunch of layouts that are roughly the same difficulty. A plus for replay-ability, but you are to some degree exchanging making the best possible hole for all of those options.
At Rollin Ridge, I thought all of the extra tees and pins were too much. There were several holes that I thought would have played better if they didn't clear space for additional tees, baskets and fairways.
Two tees and two baskets per hole, yielding 4 distinct layouts, seems like the ideal way of designing a course for a wide range of skill levels. Easier said than done, I'm sure. It's got to be very challenging for the designer to make sure each layout maintains a high level of quality.
Three and three at Rollin Ridge seemed like overkill imo. The gap in difficulty between the toughest and easiest layouts isn't so big as to require 7 intermediate layouts. You end up with a bunch of layouts that are roughly the same difficulty. A plus for replay-ability, but you are to some degree exchanging making the best possible hole for all of those options.
biscoe
* Ace Member *
Yep. I am currently working on a 3 tee/2 basket per hole woods course. The longest layout will be around 9000 feet so there is plenty of opportunity for layouts more appropriate for lesser players within that. Trying to keep each layout balanced in terms of shots required and trying not to penalize one subgroup of players or another with a bunch of long walks to their next hole are indeed challenging.
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2013
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- 775
Yes, I'll bet that is challenging. On holes that play in the same direction and strung together, there would be some long walks. I guess your best bet would be holes that somewhat overall (like bricks) or play back in the opposite direction, then you could have separate paths to the separate tees.
biscoe
* Ace Member *
Yeah- holes that run parallel to one another in opposite directions make for easy walks for all. Can't always make that happen though and realistically I will trade some imbalanced walking between player groups for hole quality.
I have 30 on that list...looks like it's time for some more trips!
I recently played Skyline Wilderness Park in Napa and I'm thinking through the same things before I write my review. There was just one set of tees but 3-4 baskets on most holes. I think as a one and done player who might never play here again, it is more of a negative. As a local who will get to know this course much better, I think it would be a positive.
BuiltTooLong
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2014
- Messages
- 1,724
While it is only 2 tee/2 basket per hole woods course, Pat Blake's design at The Wilderness does a far better job of this than any other course I've played. Pat has also been SUPER helpful in answering any questions I've had on course design and installation. He may have a couple tricks that could save you headache down the line.
I splattered ace chains, (but it fell out); during a warm up round; for a tourney at a nice private layout. Was playing with Pat Blake. Drats!
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Tyler V
Cubic Zirconia Hype Man | DGCR Chief Statistician
Gold level trusted reviewer
Premium Member
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- Mar 19, 2010
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- 484
Another 4/5 review for Selah Ranch Lakeside courtesy of Wellsbranch. Looks like it will retain it's current standing at 4th place, .03 ahead of Rollin Ridge and .05 ahead of Idlewild.
Not for long, from the sounds of it.
