Multi moving obstacle

[procurve]

When completing the full course, you need to go through a set of 9 baskets twice. There was a controversial issue.
When the players passed the first round, on one of the holes a small branch (completely separated from the tree) prevented the player from taking up a throwing lie. This player pushed the branch aside.
When the players passed the second circle on the same hole, this branch was in front of the rack (20-30 feet from it towards the basket). The player decided to roll and he believes that this branch may interfere with him.
Can a player move this obstacle?
The first player did so legally, paragraph 803.01 B1. Can the second player use paragraph 803.01 B3 (A player may restore course equipment to its proper working order, including the removal of obstacles.)?
We can talk about the previous group, which could move this branch.
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I apologize for the style. Google translator helped me))

 

[Cgkdisc]

Second player cannot use 803.01 B3 because branches are not "course equipment." The fact that you know another player legally relocated a branch during the round doesn't matter. If a dog or squirrel had dragged the branch into another position during the round, players playing the hole after the relocation cannot move the branch again unless they can legally do so because it's in their lie using 803.01 B1.

 

[procurve]

Thanks. Probably the best way to remove obstacles from a lie is away from the fairway. Where it should not disturb anyone. But in 30 seconds))

 

[ToddL]

Can the second player use paragraph 803.01 B3 (A player may restore course equipment to its proper working order, including the removal of obstacles.)?

The proper interpretation of this rule gives the player the right to remove an obstacle from the basket or the tee pad at any time. If a stick falls into the basket, you are allowed to remove it to restore the basket to its proper working order.
The ground in the middle of the fairway is not course equipment, so you can't restore it to "proper working order".

Additionally, here's a point that's more preference than rule: when you remove an obstacle from your stance, I wouldn't move it too far. You're moving it to give yourself a stance; you're not there to do course maintenance. If your disc hit a branch on the ground in the fairway, it's only fair that other players have to deal with the obstacle similar to how you did.
Now, however that branch got moved between your 1st and 2nd loop could be a good question. If you're in the woods and there's a branch in your lie, you shouldn't throw it into the fairway. You should just move it a couple of feet to the side. If some jerk threw it into the fairway, that's a real bummer, but there's not much you can do about it unless you witnessed him throwing it.

 

[krupicka]

Old rules (circa 2006) allowed obstacles to be moved that became a factor during the round. That was removed in 2011 I believe

 

[Armus Patheticus]

If you're in the woods and there's a branch in your lie, you shouldn't throw it into the fairway. You should just move it a couple of feet to the side. If some jerk threw it into the fairway, that's a real bummer, but there's not much you can do about it unless you witnessed him throwing it.

Sure there's something you can do about it, witnessed or not. Throw it off. Lightning will not smite you. If the rules punish everyone but the "jerk", what purpose are they serving? If they are serving no purpose they don't exist.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

^ serves no purpose ∴ doesn't exist.







...if only.

 

[rocthecourse]

Second player cannot use 803.01 B3 because branches are not "course equipment." The fact that you know another player legally relocated a branch during the round doesn't matter. If a dog or squirrel had dragged the branch into another position during the round, players playing the hole after the relocation cannot move the branch again unless they can legally do so because it's in their lie using 803.01 B1.

So if you throw a drive and it ends up under a large dead branch you can drag that branch to the backside of the basket to act as a backstop? Or you could even drag it to be in front of the basket to block other players putts? Or you could place it in front of another player's lie?

 

[Cgkdisc]

So if you throw a drive and it ends up under a large dead branch you can drag that branch to the backside of the basket to act as a backstop? Or you could even drag it to be in front of the basket to block other players putts? Or you could place it in front of another player's lie?

You have to move it somewhere behind your lie.

 

[kenjiac]

The proper interpretation of this rule gives the player the right to remove an obstacle from the basket or the tee pad at any time. If a stick falls into the basket, you are allowed to remove it to restore the basket to its proper working order.
The ground in the middle of the fairway is not course equipment, so you can't restore it to "proper working order".

Additionally, here's a point that's more preference than rule: when you remove an obstacle from your stance, I wouldn't move it too far. You're moving it to give yourself a stance; you're not there to do course maintenance. If your disc hit a branch on the ground in the fairway, it's only fair that other players have to deal with the obstacle similar to how you did.
Now, however that branch got moved between your 1st and 2nd loop could be a good question. If you're in the woods and there's a branch in your lie, you shouldn't throw it into the fairway. You should just move it a couple of feet to the side. If some jerk threw it into the fairway, that's a real bummer, but there's not much you can do about it unless you witnessed him throwing it.

Although I agree in principle that you should not be changing the course for others playing it competitively. I think that moving a branch completely off the fairway should be instilled in players. Courses look so much better if as players we get in this habit of tidying up the course we play. I try and teach new players that courses are maintained by volunteers and as players if we can keep fallen branches and such off the fairways as we play the course will be a better experiences for all that play them.

 

[cheesethin]

So if you throw a drive and it ends up under a large dead branch you can drag that branch to the backside of the basket to act as a backstop? Or you could even drag it to be in front of the basket to block other players putts? Or you could place it in front of another player's lie?

Rules say you can't move an obstacle unless it is on or behind your lie. As soon as the obstacle is no longer on or behind your lie... you can't move it. Put it down!!! [emoji16]

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[cheesethin]

You have to move it somewhere behind your lie.

The rules don't actually specify where casual obstacles should be moved to. I think as soon as an obstacle is no longer on your lie or in your stance area, then it should not be moved further.

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[ToddL]

Rules say you can't move an obstacle unless it is on or behind your lie. As soon as the obstacle is no longer on or behind your lie... you can't move it. Put it down

Well, "behind your lie" is a pretty big area.

But I agree with the sentiment.

 

[cheesethin]

Well, "behind your lie" is a pretty big area.



But I agree with the sentiment.

Yeah, the rules use a few different phases (can't look them all up now): stance area, run up area, behind the lie.

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[ILUVSMGS18]

Although I agree in principle that you should not be changing the course for others playing it competitively. I think that moving a branch completely off the fairway should be instilled in players. Courses look so much better if as players we get in this habit of tidying up the course we play. I try and teach new players that courses are maintained by volunteers and as players if we can keep fallen branches and such off the fairways as we play the course will be a better experiences for all that play them.

I do the same thing (must be a NY thing), even if I'm off the fairway (which happens a lot more than it should), but I always move the branches further from the fairway if they interfere with my lie. I can be comfortable in most lies, so if I have to move it, chances are someone else would've as well.

 

[robdeforge]

Rules say you can't move an obstacle unless it is on or behind your lie. As soon as the obstacle is no longer on or behind your lie... you can't move it. Put it down!!! [emoji16]

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just FYI, that language isn't in the rule book anymore:

A player is not allowed to move any obstacle on the course, with the following exceptions:
A player may move casual obstacles that are o̶n̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶b̶e̶h̶i̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶l̶i̶e̶ partially or completely on the lie or in the stance area, regardless of whether they extend in front of or behind the lie. A casual obstacle is any item or collection of loose debris (such as stones, leaves, twigs, or unconnected branches), or any item as designated by the Director.

 

[cheesethin]

just FYI, that language isn't in the rule book anymore:

Hey! thanks for pointing that out. I like the wording change. Behind the lie is a bit too broad, and doesn't address that people also stand to one side of the lie.

So interestingly, prompted by your post, I've just checked, and QA-OBS-4 and -8 still use the old wording of 'or behind...'.

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[JC17393]

Hey! thanks for pointing that out. I like the wording change. Behind the lie is a bit too broad, and doesn't address that people also stand to one side of the lie.

So interestingly, prompted by your post, I've just checked, and QA-OBS-4 and -8 still use the old wording of 'or behind...'.

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Because the QAs didn't get updated when the electronic book did prior to the 2019 season. The next update of the rule book should align the QAs with the rules better, or at least that's one of our goals.

 

[peabody]

So if a large limb or small tree falls into the basket while you are in the process of putting, you are not allowed to move it until a disc lands where a stance is affected? Then how far do you move it?
Seems fairness would dictate that if the players that holed out before you had clear path to the basket, your group should have the same.

 

[Cgkdisc]

So if a large limb or small tree falls into the basket while you are in the process of putting, you are not allowed to move it until a disc lands where a stance is affected? Then how far do you move it?
Seems fairness would dictate that if the players that holed out before you had clear path to the basket, your group should have the same.

803.01 B3 was added to the rules to deal with obstacles in the basket, twisted chains or a portable tipping over: "A player may restore course equipment to its proper working order, including the removal of obstacles." It doesn't address where to relocate the obstacles.