Multiple pins - why?/why not?

[Cgkdisc]

Highbridge will soon have two baskets on every Granite Ridge hole. Blueberry Hill will have two tees per hole with 9 holes having two baskets.

 

[Discbee]

Kind of torn on this...we have a nice course that has movable pins (an A position or B position). The A layout is a shorter, but still challenging and the B layout is much longer and creates more challenging angles and distance which can be fun but it makes many of the holes too challenging for many players. The problem is that the pins are typically either all A or all B. I would like to see a mix of A and B throughout so you get some longer more technical B pins along with some of the shorter A pins. So overall I would say I like the multiple permanent pin positions as long as they are well marked and not confusing as to where the target is.

 

[Innova63]

The Dane County (Madison WI is in Dane County)Disc Golf Courses have 1 basket, but 3 pin placements (red, white and blue) and 2 tees per hole, I know that they used to put all the baskets at Token Creek in one color (I think even the practice basket moves depending on color) for the whole course. So once you know which color the first basket is in, you will know where the rest of baskets are. I believe that the same formula is used at Capital Springs.

 

[txmxer]

Said before, I vote for designers to have more tools rather than less.

Don't cut corners and all is good. You don't want your review to be WTF was he thinking???

You are obviously trying to deliver a quality course, I'm sure it will turn out great.

 

[DavidSauls]

Kind of torn on this...we have a nice course that has movable pins (an A position or B position). The A layout is a shorter, but still challenging and the B layout is much longer and creates more challenging angles and distance which can be fun but it makes many of the holes too challenging for many players. The problem is that the pins are typically either all A or all B. I would like to see a mix of A and B throughout so you get some longer more technical B pins along with some of the shorter A pins. So overall I would say I like the multiple permanent pin positions as long as they are well marked and not confusing as to where the target is.

The one course near me with multiple placements (as many as 4 on some holes) mixes them up. I agree that it's much better than flipping from all-long to all-short. Some weeks it's 75% long, others it's 75% short, or somewhere in between.

The signs show all locations and the posts have labeled metal loops, to which the basket-movers attach small padlocks (prevents mischief).

It's a good system for handling multiple placements.

 

[Jugular]

I was fully on multiple permanent's side of things but the comment about moving pins resting the ground is pretty compelling to me as it's the main area where I see DG not living up to my first impressions of being one of the more eco-friendly sports.
The ideal I suppose would be having a couple of pins on each hole but they vary between a couple of locations each that are similar in difficulty but allow for resting the ground. Having some indicator of where the pins are at the tee sign is definitely important.
I find multiple tees more of a problem since it brings in safety issues if not done really well with people walking onto a tee ahead of players already driving off the longer tee.

 

[autocrosscrx]

Funny.

The most recent review popped up for the course that I was referencing (Victor Ashe) and among the pros were easy to navigate.

 

[tahoe]

imo the basket is THE TARGET, when I'm playing a hole I want to focus on the goal at hand with no visual distractions aside from the landscape design of the hole itself - even if there is a shorter basket that is on a different line/approach to the green, and I'm not in danger of hitting it or black-acing it, I don't want the distraction --- for me it detracts from the 'purity of play' --- i don't want to see another target anywhere around the current fairway, until the next hole... Better to adjust difficulty/level with alternate tees and/or appropriate pars/levels clearly labeled on tee signs; ie. the long position for an advanced par3 may make for a great beginner par4, especially if the shorter pin/green is absent/capped and can properly serve as a landing zone for the longer beginner par4 position...

 

[Billipo]

I'm not a fan of moveable pins. My thought is that there is a best pin for a particular skill level. I mentioned an exception for reduced erosion.

I have another exception where I believe it is a tool. I started playing mostly wooded holes. When I played open courses I found it difficult to judge distance with lack of trees. Added pressure to approach into my putting circle. Depth perception thing.

Most find open holes bad, but for reason I stated they are still an element of the game.

Until park mower destroyed collars, I had a wide open moveable pin hole where there was significant distance differences on the pin collars, but still a multiple drive par 4. Alternate locations were not flagged at collar, but distances indicated at tee.

This allowed a different experience on a plain hole where a player not gauging distance correctly could cost a stroke. I believe works best on long par 4 +.

 

[Magnet69]

I just don't like multiple pins. Maybe it's because during the 2014 Am.Worlds I hit a short basket at Kenwood Hills from the tee... like I said I'm just not a fan... Oakwood in MN has many holes now with multiple baskets... I really like the longer holes(6-8-9-13-15-16-17) bur I dislike the multiple baskets...

 

[armiller]

I just don't like multiple pins. Maybe it's because during the 2014 Am.Worlds I hit a short basket at Kenwood Hills from the tee... like I said I'm just not a fan... Oakwood in MN has many holes now with multiple baskets... I really like the longer holes(6-8-9-13-15-16-17) bur I dislike the multiple baskets...

It has to be done right. I would also argue that during tournaments (at least A-tiers or something like Am Worlds), course managers and tournament directors should remove the baskets that are not being played if at all possible.

But the biggest thing is the design of the course. I've now played at least a few more courses with two permanent pin locations. By the way, I'm still a big fan of this setup, especially for casual rounds but even for tournaments IF pulled off correctly. In general, the two basket setup works better for long courses, as that tends not to have baskets blocking shots to other baskets.

Then the other big thing is pretty simple, but relates to a simple way to distinguish long from short pin. I recently played a great course (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=4535 - Renegade, near Lansing, MI) that had some hiccups related to how long and short baskets were placed. Both locations were Innova Discatchers, but apparently separated by color (Red vs Yellow). When I played, several holes had two Red or two Yellow baskets. That made navigation much more confusing as a new player. So I'd encourage all "two permanent pin" courses to make the distinction very obvious!

Overall, it seems to me that courses with two permanent pins are becoming a little more common. To me, that's a good thing. Maybe I'm biased because these courses tend to have more thought behind the design and also more resources behind the construction. I'll try to get back on here and look through all my courses played and rank all my multiple-pin courses.

 

[sisyphus]

I have absolutely no problem with multiple baskets per hole. Bryant Lake does a great job, color coded, and sets up the possibility of up to four layouts in the same space as a single 18 hole course. And you can decide how you want to enjoy the course each time.
I also have no problem with having all the baskets remain, all the time, including during tournament play. They're the same size as a small bush, and you wouldn't remove a bush because it forces a different throwing line...
In my redesign of the AmShank course in Amelia, OH, I'm hoping to do 2 tees, 2 baskets, 9 fairways. It's a small park, and this would lend variety and four levels of skill, while leaving the non-disc golf areas of the park to other park patrons.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Ideally, the two baskets on a hole are not placed in a straight line if possible or one is partly tucked behind a tree in the sight line from the tee so each basket is less of a distraction when players are focusing on the other one, although the occasional grey ace adds bonus fun to the game.

 

[magictenor1]

I absolutely love multiple pin placements IF both have permanent baskets. Along with multiple tees it gives you options. I detest pins that move around. They give you no options

 

[GripEnemy]

The course I've played most by far has rotating pin locations and it's frustrating when I don't get out to play much. My favorite hole in C is boring in A. I wish there was at least two baskets on all holes (I play long to long on every course if available).

***Of course my opinion is expensive, selfish, and not practical everywhere but a man can dream!

 

[ray1970]

I hate when there are two baskets in place. Maybe if they were clearly marked or identified or if it was a course that I played enough to be familiar with but otherwise it's just a convoluted mess trying to figure out which layout you're playing. The only thing worse than two baskets down range is when they combine those two baskets with multiple tee pads.

Personally, I prefer a single tee position with a single basket that is randomly placed in different positions.

My next preference would be for a single basket position but with multiple tees so long as the different tees made it like playing two different holes. Not a fan of multiple tees where one is essentially just a slightly longer version of the other tee.

 

[Cgkdisc]

A well-designed layout with two tees and two baskets should be considered the minimum desired configuration moving forward, when it can be funded, to provide a full-service course for the widest range of player skills whether it's a free course in a public park supported by taxpayers or a pay-to-play facility where the owner eventually wishes to break even or possibly make a profit.

The devil is in the details whether designing from scratch or upscaling to a two tee/two basket configuration to where each tee-to-pin layout challenges a different skill level well and doesn't visually confuse or significantly interfere with those playing the other three layouts.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

A well-designed layout with two tees and two baskets should be considered the minimum desired configuration moving forward, when it can be funded, to provide a full-service course for the widest range of player skills whether it's a free course in a public park supported by taxpayers or a pay-to-play facility where the owner eventually wishes to break even or possibly make a profit.

The devil is in the details whether designing from scratch or upscaling to a two tee/two basket configuration to where each tee-to-pin layout challenges a different skill level well and doesn't visually confuse or significantly interfere with those playing the other three layouts.

As a traveling player, comprehensive signage becomes important on multi-tee/multi-pin layouts. For those already familiar with a course, signage is basically irrelevant, but considering most courses I'm never playing again, I appreciate signage that displays all tee and pin positions, along with the distances for the various layouts.

 

[Cgkdisc]

As a traveling player, comprehensive signage becomes important on multi-tee/multi-pin layouts. For those already familiar with a course, signage is basically irrelevant, but considering most courses I'm never playing again, I appreciate signage that displays all tee and pin positions, along with the distances for the various layouts.

I agree. We have been doing that on the courses I've been involved with upscaling to two tee/two pin layouts > Visually accurate tee signs, positioning baskets to avoid being in direct sight lines where possible, skill color coding tee-to-basket layouts, Next Tee signs on baskets, additional directional signs where need on paths from basket to next tee, color-coded master map at tee 1 and properly entered UDisc layouts. These elements should be considered basic to receiving higher ratings for 2T/2B courses.

 

[DavidSauls]

A well-designed layout with two tees and two baskets should be considered the minimum desired configuration moving forward, when it can be funded, to provide a full-service course for the widest range of player skills whether it's a free course in a public park supported by taxpayers or a pay-to-play facility where the owner eventually wishes to break even or possibly make a profit.

On the other hand....

As the number of courses proliferate, there's more justification in different courses in an area catering to different skill levels, without the compromises of each trying to cater to everyone.