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[MVP] MVP Disc Sports (Official Thread) (Part V)

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I am curious what others think from the recent interview Trevor from Foundation had with Steve Holloway:

https://youtu.be/DrEeLr4OJYA

I bag MVP/Axiom exclusively based on mold consistency, flights, and feel, but I keep losing respect for the organization/marketing of the company. They refuse to claim their discs fly further because they don't. To say they don't claim to be better because they are afraid of upsetting people is...silly. I also get frustrated with the division into multiple companies. They are up to what 5 now? MVP, Axiom, Streamline, ThoughtSpace, and Mint? I eventually found a community built unofficial flight chart tool for viewing 3 of them.

https://perldreamer.github.io/MVP-Flight-Chart/flight_chart.html?fbclid=IwAR14JxZ_uv0diavwt-vWvVXft3DZ8e_TzecHVPTHFqB75Elb8Z72hOihFeU

I still haven't heard a good reason to separate the discs into separate companies, across different websites that contain the information you want but no way easy way to compare them without multiple browser tabs open.

Can always sort/filter the Marshall Street flight guide by brand.......

I'm a big fan of that guide/chart!

But what I was looking for was specifically the cross section/profile view of the discs that MVP/Axiom illustrates so nicely. I don't have a store close by to actually feel discs before buying them.

I had no one else to complain to, so in exchange, I provided links to some good DG content and an unofficial MVP/Axiom/Streamline chart.

Thanks for reading my words; regardless of its value to the thread. :)
 
For me, the old craves had a similar quality to a fresh premium plastic envy; being able to fly straighter the harder it's thrown. At 300-325, it was straight with no turn and a mellow, consistent fade. By 350 the fade was a bit sublter and later, and they could be pushed up to 400' without any REAL turn. They'd look like they were going to turn, and would drift a few feet (like, literally 2-3' off of center) over the high speed portion of the flight, and then fade back the same amount to end up dead center with essentially no lateral movement. It took me a flippy 12+ speed distance driver on a much wider line to get any significant distance increase over those craves since they would finish so straight.

This is 100% my take on the PP Craves. You put it much more eloquently than I have been able to. But they're almost like cheating, no matter how hard you throw them, they just go straight. The only difference is how much they fade at the end of the flight.

You can also force a turnover that holds the line really well with the right power. The only thing I never got my PP Craves to do that I needed another disc for was a big OS skip shot.
 
I still haven't heard a good reason to separate the discs into separate companies, across different websites that contain the information you want but no way easy way to compare them without multiple browser tabs open.

It could be a few different reasons.

1. MVP set themselves up as a 'black rimmed' gyro disc. That identifies them and they want to keep it that way. So they set up Axiom as the "not black rimmed" gyro disc version. And there may be differences with the others that "identify" them.

2. The other companies had ideas for discs based on the gyro design and asked MVP to help them out. Basically what Innova did with other companies and still does with some.

3. MVP is like other non-disc companies. Lexus cars is a Toyota company...innovation starts with Lexus and trickles down to other Toyota cars. When stereos were a big thing....multiple brands belonged to one company...innovation would start with one (the expensive/elite brand) and trickle down. Maybe MVP uses the other brands to test things before incorporating it into the MVP brand.
 
It could be a few different reasons.

1. MVP set themselves up as a 'black rimmed' gyro disc. That identifies them and they want to keep it that way. So they set up Axiom as the "not black rimmed" gyro disc version. And there may be differences with the others that "identify" them.

2. The other companies had ideas for discs based on the gyro design and asked MVP to help them out. Basically what Innova did with other companies and still does with some.

3. MVP is like other non-disc companies. Lexus cars is a Toyota company...innovation starts with Lexus and trickles down to other Toyota cars. When stereos were a big thing....multiple brands belonged to one company...innovation would start with one (the expensive/elite brand) and trickle down. Maybe MVP uses the other brands to test things before incorporating it into the MVP brand.


I get what you're saying, but people don't associate Lexus with Toyota the same way MVP and Axiom are associated. I agree that one website should house both overmold brands for comparison and ease of use. Otherwise they need to work to really market them completely separately and disassociate as much as possible. Where they are now though, they have their "Official" fan page that constitutes all their brands, in addition to their brand pages. But when they announce new releases on their MVP brand page, they include the releases for their other brands as well. Instagram is similar. One page groups all the announcements. Even their pro shop, when it was up, sold all their brands. If they are going to be together on Social Media, why can't they be together on their company website? It's really silly marketing.

Now, as far as Mint and TSA. I agree those shouldn't be included. MVP just acts as a producer for their own designs. MVP doesn't do any of the marketing, design, etc. No reason to see those discs on MVP sites.
 
From what I remember hearing they are separate sides of the company with their own idea people and R and D . That said is kind of suspicious how the molds are a half a step off of each other haha I even heard a rumour that the two brothers had split the company that way and one was running Axiom and the other was running MVP I don't know if there's any truth to that . Even though they do share all of the same information it would make sense to have a separate team on each company so that they could focus more on what they were doing
 
Every disc needs a backup. Wraths nos. 2 and 3 inbound along with a Plasma Trace as a Wave alt (and another Cosmic Wave). It's officially a splurge.

Heck yeah. I picked up my first two wraths and am now looking for at least one back up. I bought the back up plasma trace as well and a new cosmic neutron trace to be a more stable complement to the beat in trace.
 
From what I remember hearing they are separate sides of the company with their own idea people and R and D . That said is kind of suspicious how the molds are a half a step off of each other haha I even heard a rumour that the two brothers had split the company that way and one was running Axiom and the other was running MVP I don't know if there's any truth to that . Even though they do share all of the same information it would make sense to have a separate team on each company so that they could focus more on what they were doing

I haven't heard any of this. Everything I heard was, people were requesting colored rims, they didn't want to lose consistency in the black rims, so they made Axiom to appease the fans basically, without losing their main brand's consistency image. Also, for the longest time, while they had 2 brands, MVP only had like, 8 employees total. That includes doing all the injection molding and stamping, etc. From the way I understand it, the brothers, mainly Brad I think, do all of the designing of the discs, for both brands, I guess all 3 when you add the stupid Streamline brand, but whatever, that's a whole other conversation about poor decision making.

Either way, pretty sure, even with the growth in the last couple years, the brothers pretty exclusively design everything. Even when James Conrad was designing his new discs, everyone has said he took his ideas to the bros, who worked with him to create the design based on what he wanted.
 
Played Suwanee Creek today with Jgilletted4. Always great company and so smooth operating with the high panning shots (Envy and Entropy, I think?) that I simply don't have in the toolkit. Not a great scoring day, but the forehand's developing into a functional shot with the Wrath and Resistor. Lots of 6.5 speed stuff today: that shape out of MVP/Axiom is really the only thing I know of that's as utterly comfortable in the hand as an old S Line FD.
 
Played Suwanee Creek today with Jgilletted4. Always great company and so smooth operating with the high panning shots (Envy and Entropy, I think?) that I simply don't have in the toolkit. Not a great scoring day, but the forehand's developing into a functional shot with the Wrath and Resistor. Lots of 6.5 speed stuff today: that shape out of MVP/Axiom is really the only thing I know of that's as utterly comfortable in the hand as an old S Line FD.

How did you like that course? Personally it's not a favorite lol.
 
Neutron Ohms are hitting the shelves for those of you who might be interested.

Who says?

I got a couple recently but it's comforting to know there are more out there finally. The new ones seem to be an exact match to my original in feel and flight. Have several rounds with a new one and I throw it a lot.
 
How did you like that course? Personally it's not a favorite lol.

Is it frustrating as hell to score? Yes. But if you recalibrate and look at it as 90 minutes of intensive shot shaping, it's an entirely different experience. I don't know of another course in the area that's quite the same. Edwards up in Dalton might be the closest although it does stretch out in spots. Have you played up there?
 
Is it frustrating as hell to score? Yes. But if you recalibrate and look at it as 90 minutes of intensive shot shaping, it's an entirely different experience. I don't know of another course in the area that's quite the same. Edwards up in Dalton might be the closest although it does stretch out in spots. Have you played up there?

Yes I actually won the prodigy event at Edwards last month. It's just a lot more complex and the lines are more realistic than Suwannee. Plus it's a ton longer so that plays well to my strengths.
 
Who says?

I got a couple recently but it's comforting to know there are more out there finally. The new ones seem to be an exact match to my original in feel and flight. Have several rounds with a new one and I throw it a lot.

DFX has them in stock, I think i have seen at other online sellers that seem to get MVP restocks early.
 
Went back into my local shop again today and felt up the new plastic for like the third time in a few weeks. Picked up a sweet 168 wrath and they had a random L2 neutron mayhem in the used bin for $8 that looked unthrown. I lost two mayhems a couple months ago, couldn't find any new ones and grabbed two catalysts because the numbers were similar…catalyst flips way easier.

Temps hit 80 today and winds were 5-10mph so figured I'd go to the wide open bomber course and get in a field work session. Been putting in the work to get the backhand back, would love to be able to get 350+ golf lines FH or BH and be able to hit 400+ out in the open.

Was really focusing on slowing down today and getting a strong brace and consistent release. All my previous field work I would rock back and forth SW22 dingle arm style a couple times to feel the weight shift and then throw, but I think after 2-3 pendulum swings I was moving too fast and was spraying left and right. Last round I played with a buddy we were at a really short and tight course in the woods, he made the comment that maybe I had too much movement. I agreed and said the couple arm swings was to engrain the feeling of the shift and brace. Last couple holes took his advice and simply turned the hips, slid the front foot forward just a bit and threw. Took a couple throws to get the timing down but after that was getting the same amount of pop but with way more accuracy.

So that was the goal today. Get the timing and accuracy down with a single hip turn, good brace, and snap. Timing came pretty quick and I was getting just under 300 consistently with hexes and reactors. Had a few that pushed 330. Relays and craves were pushing a bit further, I'd say 320-330 consistently and a couple downhills that got close to 4 bills.

At that point was a 450ish fairly steep uphill shot and I felt dialed in from a standstill. Figured no harm in adding a run up in. Previously that was my problem…felt like I could throw fairly well from a standstill but once I added footwork I started losing distance and had no timing…basically no brace. First couple throws sucked, and fortunately for identical multiples I could alternate between standstill to feel good brace and a run up and compare distance. Standstill distance on a good pull was equal to a slow walk up with an ok brace. Big win was getting reps and consistency with the walk up…couple times the timing was on and you could immediately feel the difference of the disc rocketing out of the hand.

Seems like the relay and crave were the points of diminishing returns. I've thrown nose up long enough to know what that looks like, moving up to the 9-10 speed area if I really had the timing down they'd hammer but it wasn't nearly as consistent as the fairways. I think a lot of that is subconscious, after a few good clean fairway pulls you try to nut up on the faster stuff and it just doesn't work.

So after mixed winds, results are: hexes are still stupid straight and stupid long for a mid. Amazing do all disc. Neutron reactor isn't necessary, pair them hex with eclipse reactor if you want distance and fade. My heavy neutron relays are too similar to upper 160's cosmic neutron craves…track down mid 160's relays for flip or maybe a signal? Low 170's plasma craves don't feel as fast out of the hand as upper 160's CN but they seem to be laser straight and hang in the air forever. Newer proton and CN volts are dumpy if you don't get them up to speed, once you get on them a bit they do straighten out but still have a good bite at the end. Plasma insanity will be stupid long once I get a get a good consistent release locked in. I want to baby it because I think it wants to be flippy, but I think it'll take more power than I want to believe. Other plastics might be different? Not much difference between eclipse insanity and inertia. Kinda sad, inertia feels better in the hand and rides an overall straighter line, but just doesn't seem to pop off the hand like the insanity does. Checked PLH of my glow inertia with the neutron and plasma restock at the shop and didn't see much difference. Wrath vs Tesla…seems like the Tesla prefers a larger more sweeping fade vs the wrath being straighter longer with a strong fade once it slows down? My 157 CN Tesla flew much more wrath like but I'm sure that's due to the weight compared to the 172 proton Tesla. PLH on the new Tesla's looked pretty identical to my proton. I could see instances where the sweeping fade would work, and others where the straight to fade would work.

Really wanted to buy an ohm because the perpendicular rim feels money, but they had them marked 19.99 and the rest of the neutron was 17.99, either they're playing the scarcity game or it was a giant order that got interrupted on pricing. I'll either order online or hammer them for a price match. Was really interested in the inertia but in the winds the insanity held it's stability just fine, don't really see the need for a different mold. I'll tinker more with the Tesla and wrath, upper 160's wraths was all they had, but did have some upper 150's. I could see an upper 150's wrath absolutely smashing. They had plenty of entropies, felt good and comfy BH grip but it's definitely not a zone gripped FH.

Not even worrying about stuff faster than 9-10 speed right now. Wave felt good in the hand but resisted temptation…mainly because the swirly CN stock was all max weight or real light.
 
..... My heavy neutron relays are too similar to upper 160's cosmic neutron craves…track down mid 160's relays for flip or maybe a signal? Low 170's plasma craves don't feel as fast out of the hand as upper 160's CN but they seem to be laser straight and hang in the air forever. .

Buy them all!!! :D


Insanity/inertia is kinda redundant a one flight number/mold hop usually is.

Relay/crave can be redundant, pick one you like or vary the weights.. A 155 relay holds turns pretty nice, or a signal gives you the flat to turn and a two mold hop so different enough.

You could go nuts on it for distance anny's though, if you are into light stuff the 155 cosmic waves are very good at holding a line. A light one throws more like a speed 9 with flip potential without burning like a fission one or plasma one. Kinda like a fairway tweener.
 
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