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:confused: but not if your an AM rated at 1000?

This whole 1000 rated am thing is so overblown. As has been pointed out, there are so few cases of it that it's hardly worth getting worked up over. In my experience and observation, there are two primary reasons why an Am who legitimately* has a rating at or near 1000 is still an Am: (1) preserving am status until Worlds/Am Nats and (2) the player is a junior, competes in other sports, and has concerns over the implications of turning "pro" w/r/t the NCAA. I'm unaware of a case where a player maintains a near or over 1000 rating just to keep playing Am and raking in the "easy" plastic winnings.

*legitimately as in they have a valid propagating-worthy rating, not one based on one or two tournaments

Also, again, worth repeating, Advanced has no limitation on rating for a reason...it's the highest amateur division available. If it had a cap, there'd need to be another amateur division above it. Moving to a pro division is technically not a step up as much as a step over from one means of compensation to another. Every other sport in existence has uncapped amateur competition. I like to point out that Tiger Woods won three consecutive US Amateur championships (after winning three consecutive US Junior championships)...had he been a disc golfer, he'd have been bagger-shamed after the first US Am title at age 18 and probably burned at the stake for winning his second at age 19. No one in the world of ball golf blinked an eye.
 
If you're 1000 rated you're going to make a lot more from playing open at c tiers than you are playing in advanced and having to sell off plastic. IMO it's a lot more greedy to expect all the people better than you to move out of the way so you can win.
 
I believe it's more greedy to consistently finish at or near the top over and over knowing there is a more competitive level that you can enter. Beating the same lower level of players for years and years just shows that you're only interested in stoking your ego than playing a competitive sport.
 
".....for years and years...." ? We have someone who's been doing this for years and years? Consistently?

I can't wait for other sports to adopt this uniquely disc golf viewpoint, wherein "amateur" is defined as "below a certain skill level".
 
How many times does a person (or a doubles team) need to win an amateur title before it's time to enter a division with better competition? Or consistently place in the top spots of lower levels of competition? Take a look back at players from certain a Texas town who have been at or near the top of AM levels of competition. I'm mean come on, they have already beat the others in that level many times. Seek out better competition and see what you can really accomplish. They don't even have to play in PRO divisions to find better players to compete against. How many times does a person have to have an award showing they have beaten the same level of lower division players?
Do your children keep playing against 6th graders once they have moved to the middle school level?
 
If I were that TD, instead of trying to withdraw as TD, I would cancel the MA2 division and refund those players their entry fees.
 
How many times does a person (or a doubles team) need to win an amateur title before it's time to enter a division with better competition? Or consistently place in the top spots of lower levels of competition? Take a look back at players from certain a Texas town who have been at or near the top of AM levels of competition. I'm mean come on, they have already beat the others in that level many times. Seek out better competition and see what you can really accomplish. They don't even have to play in PRO divisions to find better players to compete against. How many times does a person have to have an award showing they have beaten the same level of lower division players?
Do your children keep playing against 6th graders once they have moved to the middle school level?

I think you're still missing the fact that am to pro isn't "moving up", it's changing to a different category altogether. Do you think a college basketball team who wins a couple titles should play only nba teams after that? Should the softball team who won the league I played in 5 years in a row go play MLB teams? There is no cap on advanced, and that's by design. No sport forces amateur players to go pro because they're "too good" for amateur competition.
 
I think you're still missing the fact that am to pro isn't "moving up", it's changing to a different category altogether. Do you think a college basketball team who wins a couple titles should play only nba teams after that? Should the softball team who won the league I played in 5 years in a row go play MLB teams? There is no cap on advanced, and that's by design. No sport forces amateur players to go pro because they're "too good" for amateur competition.

Unless, of course, you're in 860 rated player in Korea. :wall:
 
I think you're still missing the fact that am to pro isn't "moving up", it's changing to a different category altogether. Do you think a college basketball team who wins a couple titles should play only nba teams after that? Should the softball team who won the league I played in 5 years in a row go play MLB teams? There is no cap on advanced, and that's by design. No sport forces amateur players to go pro because they're "too good" for amateur competition.

thank you.
 
I think you're still missing the fact that am to pro isn't "moving up", it's changing to a different category altogether. Do you think a college basketball team who wins a couple titles should play only nba teams after that? Should the softball team who won the league I played in 5 years in a row go play MLB teams? There is no cap on advanced, and that's by design. No sport forces amateur players to go pro because they're "too good" for amateur competition.
No, I'm not missing that. What I'm talking about is not moving from AM to PRO, but moving on to stiffer competition in the AM ranks. Does your softball team keep winning that level when there is a higher ranking level within that system? I don't know how your system is set up but in my town there are quite a few levels of teams for adult softball. I'll admit I'm not too familiar with the way it is right now since I quit playing ball once I got serious about DG in the late '80s, but teams who won the championship for their level would usually sign up for a higher level of play for the next season. Granted, the teams who stuck together for many seasons and were consistently placing at or near the top of the highest levels of play were the teams who were considered the best of our area and the most serious of the rest of the players in the area were always trying to find a way to get on that team or put together a team that could possibly compete with the other top teams.


I understand what you're trying to convey with the AM to PRO argument, you just seem to be missing that some players in the AM ranks will still sign up for a division knowing they have consistently beaten the usual players of that division, even though they know they can sign up for a division with better players usually at the same price.


You don't always have to move to PRO to find better players. If your rating is a couple of points below the cutoff for the higher division and you're always at the top of that division for events in your area, maybe it's time to move out of that division. Your rating says you can play with the lesser skilled guys but your results show you consistently beat them, and there is another higher AM division you can enter. If you're 50 years old and beating the other old dudes in your area by 10 to 20 throws at every event don't you think maybe you should try mixing it up with the AM Masters? That's the players who I believe are in it for the ego boost.
 
No, I'm not missing that. What I'm talking about is not moving from AM to PRO, but moving on to stiffer competition in the AM ranks. Does your softball team keep winning that level when there is a higher ranking level within that system? I don't know how your system is set up but in my town there are quite a few levels of teams for adult softball. I'll admit I'm not too familiar with the way it is right now since I quit playing ball once I got serious about DG in the late '80s, but teams who won the championship for their level would usually sign up for a higher level of play for the next season. Granted, the teams who stuck together for many seasons and were consistently placing at or near the top of the highest levels of play were the teams who were considered the best of our area and the most serious of the rest of the players in the area were always trying to find a way to get on that team or put together a team that could possibly compete with the other top teams.


I understand what you're trying to convey with the AM to PRO argument, you just seem to be missing that some players in the AM ranks will still sign up for a division knowing they have consistently beaten the usual players of that division, even though they know they can sign up for a division with better players usually at the same price.


You don't always have to move to PRO to find better players. If your rating is a couple of points below the cutoff for the higher division and you're always at the top of that division for events in your area, maybe it's time to move out of that division. Your rating says you can play with the lesser skilled guys but your results show you consistently beat them, and there is another higher AM division you can enter. If you're 50 years old and beating the other old dudes in your area by 10 to 20 throws at every event don't you think maybe you should try mixing it up with the AM Masters? That's the players who I believe are in it for the ego boost.

If someone is able to win intermediate consistently, they'll be rated advanced pretty quickly. Unless everyone else in that division is playing up (and if that's the case, they have no standing to complain about someone with a valid rating winning that division) you can't consistently win a division without putting up ratings over the cutoff. It still comes down to the fact that there's a well established system. Almost every single person complaining about "sandbaggers" I've ever seen has been someone who chooses to play above the level where that system places them. That's a fine choice, but complaining about people who follow the rules and win is petty and greedy IMO.
 
My guess is that the only reason someone might be consistently winning is because those that can give them competition have been badgered into moving up.
 
I say play your rating, that's what they're there for. The problem is that people over here want instant results and recognition. These are the same people that barely know the rules, but insist on skipping straight to throwing speed 13 drivers before they even learn the fundamentals. Pride is the biggest factor that is keeping disc golf from developing in this country not "sandbaggers ".
 
The man behind the bullying just sent me this e-mail...again, I've changed the name of the TD for his benefit (since this guy has no relation to the TD, and the TD is stuck in the middle of all this)...how's this for a classic case of a non-apology?

"Well, I just talked with TD about you and I gotta say, I am sorry. I just reread what I wrote and I guess it was kinda bad? But then again, i did say from the beginning that it was going to be said straight up.

Once again, I share the same opinion as others. Its not a problem for you to come and play. That was never the issue. The only issue was the division. The funny thing is, the divisions in Korea are elevated as you know. there is no way id be playing MPO back home. Therefore, the TD and I are going to push to rename the divisions here because we should follow the proper guidelines set forth by the PDGA.

People do want to have a fair shot at the tourney, and I know that things did not go well during nationals (not our tourney). Things are messed up here in so many ways, and the TD and I, amongst others, are trying to make it better. There have been many other issues that we have dealt with in the past, and we have tried to quell these matters. Obviously, we have a long way to go in pushing the sport in the right direction. It is a big pain in our butts, but were trying to respect the culture here and pointing out major flaws when it interferes with a western standpoint of how things should be run. Last year's tourney was a debacle and since, we have been trying to mend fences, although it was not our fault at all.

That is why people had an opinion about you playing in MA2, regardless of your reasons.

Just recently, we had an issue with a player who played beginner and ended up winning the division, long distance comp and ctp contest. That is also another reason people were heated up over this. We are wanting to set a great example and when your situation popped up, it kinda made us uneasy and a little upset because we felt that you of all people should be able to understand that this isn't right.

However, you found a way, through a loophole in the rules, to make a valid point that MA2 is MA2. What got me is that you know MA2 here is not the same. Anyways, we will try to resolve this issue.

All being said, I hope that we can continue without ill will and I'm hoping you will forgive me. Of course you are welcome to come and play in the tourney. I have enjoyed the past two times meeting and playing with you and also talking about discs, which i have become such a big nerd. I hope that we can communicate about this and I am sorry for offending you from the above messages. I just didn't want to give you a line of bs, that's all. If you know me, you'd know that I'm straightforward. Didn't mean to offend you but did want to make my point clear.

I don't know if this will change your mind about me at all, but it is worth a try. I hope you can find a way to attend our tourney before you leave."



He brings up some interesting and fair points, but then buries it with lines like: "However, you found a way, through a loophole in the rules, to make a valid point that MA2 is MA2."

This is one of the many problems here, and in other places as well. That is not a loophole. Rating protected divisions ARE the rules. I am already choosing to play above my rating, so how is this a loophole? Simply tell your "begginer" players to play down in MA3, like they should in the first place. I would also like to point out that of the 90 registered players for this event, a grand total of FOUR...FOUR are PDGA members. You know who isn't one of the aforementioned PDGA members? The guy who has been sending me these e-mails and apparently knows the rules so well that he has found "loopholes."

The other line that really stands out is this one: " Therefore, the TD and I are going to push to rename the divisions here because we should follow the proper guidelines set forth by the PDGA.
"

So just do it! Before, I wasn't upset with the TD but this kind of puts things in perspective. You are running a tournament. You are a PDGA official. You know people are playing in the wrong division. WHY WOULD YOU NOT JUST MOVE THEM? Why not make an MA4 if this is such a big issue? You have ninety players registered already...adding more divisions will do no harm, whatsoever. Their goal of "growing the sport in Korea" is clearly shown here to be doing nothing but holding it back, at best.

Then I received a follow-on Facebook message from the same guy...here he goes again: "Another straight up thing, though. I know I said I hope you come down but now you see my point, and why you have to play in MPO. Dont come down and try to play in MA2, obviously you see now why that is stupid, right?"

I have now blocked him and removed myself from any association with the so-called KPDGA. That last message was the straw that broke the camel's back for me, and I have finally filed a report with the PDGA proper. This is my third report to them regarding the KPDGA. It's sad to see it go down like this, it really is, because all it is hurting is the players. But, at the same time, I stand by the PDGA and if you are going to associate with them, you have to follow the rules...not make up your own.
 
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