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New Layout at Harry Myers Rockwall TX

I know the course needed to be redesigned, but I have mixed feelings after playing there today.

Is it fun? Yes! Is it better? Maybe for the pros...

I miss the old layout, but I suffer from nostalgia.
 
I played Saturday (with eegor) and I tend to agree. There are some definite improvements, but some holes seem crammed in and are too short. Harry Myers has always been one of my favorites. Right now the new design suffers in comparison to the previous design. I am hoping with time, and repeated playing, I will come to like, if not love, the new design.
 
So I went and played shorts again with a group after seeing a large group waiting on the long tee area and we wanted a quick(er) round. I have to say the shorts are...man they're short. A lot of what feels like gimme birdies. I see quite a few folks complaining about safety of people in the park and walkers etc. I think on holes 4, 5 and 7 it's a possibility with errant throws. Again I haven't spent a lot of time on the longs on the weekends, but we'll see how it plays out. I really think the long tee pads with the AM pin placements will be the new shorts for 2.0. The Nick Hyde AM weekend will all by played from the blue tees with no red tee's used for any division as of now with the email that was sent out to players. There were quite a few folks playing longs today that had some bad drives that posed some potential issues, I didn't see the email from Siri until after my round by it makes sense now why so many were on the longs that didn't seem to need to be.

I really think the Nick Hyde AM and Pro weekends will kind of be the test for the course. Depending on how these weekends go we'll see. There's already talk about moving the tournament next year away from Rockwall and Harry Myers. The course is already underplayed now since it's on the eastern border of the metroplex, I'm curious how things are going to play out and if it's going to have any effect on the city since potentially they could be losing those weekends. They honestly probably don't care much as I have no idea how much revenue these events actually pull in, but I seem to remember Garland not being stoked that the Pro weekend was only held in Rockwall last year.
 
Not sure where the Nick Hyde would be played then. If it wasn't Rockwall, it shouldn't be Heritage either. That course will hold very little challenge for pros. Veteran's can't attract top talent and Turner is getting pulled.
Also, I thought (at least for a couple years) that the Rockwall Tourism Board or whoever added cash to the tourny...pretty sure I have seen hole sponsorships at least.

(Not a dig at Heritage, fun course had a blast but it's for 900-rated players, not 1050)
 
There's rumors of 2 ball golf courses that have said they'd hold the event. It's not limited to just disc golf courses. The Rockwall Tourism Board probably at least sponsored a hole, but Siri has always been able to get bigger named sponsors for the event, hopefully he could figure something out.

I'm not saying the tournament would be pulled, it's just speculation at this point by some locals. I'm hoping the tournament is a success and that others enjoy the layout and enjoy the course. I think the course from the longs in the gold pin positions will be a good challenge, hopefully. I'm back and forth from time to time with my feelings towards the course. I played my first full round from the longs today and really enjoyed it. I partially think some of the kickback is from outspoken locals who are just upset the course has changed. There are some legit concerns sure, hopefully they'll iron themselves out. Hole 17 blue tee's is probably my biggest question mark. Unless you can throw a Simon or Eagle anhyzer shot you're not getting much distance off the tee. Definitely takes out the eagle look for us mere mortals, but still a good birdie opportunity.
 
My impressions from playing it once from each tee (2 rounds) and a little reflection. Regular pin placements... not a gold review.

#1 - Pretty much the same with a very improved "green" and 6 new trees in fairway. Improved!
#2 - A new hole from elevated tees down to a sloping pin area. Not really a whole lot here to get excited about from either tee. Tough in windy conditions.
#3 - Nice forced low drive to a slight uphill pin from the blue tee. Miss the bird, get an easy 3. Super easy... too easy ace run from the red.
#4 - Blue tee features a RH anny or flick from a tunnel to an open basket. You can get a good feeling from a well executed shot there. Red tee is another short hole to go for an ace. Nothing really in the way. (I'm obviously not a fan of short easy holes).
#5 - Down hill and sloping to the left with a few trees in the way. Good birdie opportunity from either tee. Fun, finesse drive, but an easy 3 if no bird.
(Note: Holes 2 - 5 "feel" crammed into a small field with a walking path through it. To make them safe and fit, they're just too short and easy compared to the former design. Understandable. I'd probably love this course if I'd never played Harry Myers 1.0 - but I did, hundreds of times)
#6 - Old hole 2 "neutered". Tees are closer and the pin is closer. Old #2 was one of my favorite holes to play. It always felt good to come away with a birdie 3. Now this is a fairly simple par 3 with a birdie look if you hit the right height off the tee. No longer "favorite hole" pedigree.
#7 - Hyzer drive across a field to a fairly guarded pin. That's about it.
#8 - The old "epic" #3 has been straightened by removing some small trees and all of the brush from the right side of the fairway from the tees. Now you drive straight for the bowl and then straight out of the bowl cleared on its left side to the old #4 fairway. Open pin placement. A great hole if I hadn't played the old #3. The hole does play a lot quicker now. That's good, I guess.
#9 - I really, really like this hole. Finesse placement of the drive and upshot to a tough pin placement. This hole matches the old #9 and the landscape work on the landing area is very nice. Good golf hole. My favorite hole on the front 9.

#10 - Not much to say except the roots in front of the basket make it tough to skip up to it for an easy bird. Red tee is pretty easy if you can throw uphill.
#11 - This is a fun hole. You basically play old 12 backwards and then across the field the old 11 pin was in. Downhill, long and risky drive with OB right. I like this one a lot. It's always fun to get to air it out down hill. (I used to like old 12 up hill. Apparently, I was a small minority).
#12 - From the blue tee, this is a nice dogleg right that rewards accuracy. I like that its longer and you have more options than old 10 had from the blue. A little easier pin placement, but overall an improvement on old 10... except now the red is too easy. It's really a fairly pedestrian par 3 now.
#13 - Replaces the awesome old 11 with a fairly short par 3 off to the trees in the right. Pretty fun with the choice of lines. If I'd never played the old 11, I wouldn't feel like I was missing something when I played this hole. It's still fun though because the line is different from the tee and very birdie friendly.
#14 - Uphill replacement for old 13 that takes away the skip hyzer from the blue tees, but gives you straight anny or slight hyzer line. About the same... Red is either too open or short.
#15 - I like this one a whole lot! Replaces the old 16 with a choice of drives from the tee and a tunnel approach to the pin in a long par 5. This is my new favorite hole on the course. It makes you think all the way to the basket and punishes shots off line. This hole can separate the scores of a group of comparable players. There's really not enough of these like there used to be...
#16 - Short left to right. Fairway hadn't been mowed, but more like trampled down. All new area for disc golf and it shows. Easy, especially from the red tee.
#17 - Not much change except the blue tee was moved closer and a little to the left. It's still the same...
#18 - Not much change except the pin was moved about 20 feet to the right of its original location. Still the same.

The old layout had the really fun front 12 and 16 to make it a great course.
The new layout kind of neutered the front nine and improved the back nine.

This is my opinion from 2 rounds... one from the shorts and one from the blues. I obviously prefer the blue tees now. I used to enjoy a round from the reds, but now they're just too short and easy overall. Harry Myers has been my main practice course since it was installed and probably will continue to be. (or I might hit the 'Bon a little more often).

For reference, I'm a 58 year old guy that loves a tough and challenging course that provides a lot of different and difficult lines to hit. If the course doesn't make me think about 2 or 3 options on most of the holes, I'm not a fan.

I'd probably be raving about this course if it were new and I'd never been to the park before. Walkers and joggers are safer now and I know that matters.
 
Should mere mortals really have an eagle look?

Well, no, I guess that's just something we've come to expect on hole 17 at Harry Myers, haha.

Mark, Steve asked the right question, and you gave the right answer. Sorry too take away your eagle look. Believe it or not, one of the goals was to make the course tougher from the Blues and much tougher to the Gold. (I know you know that, and I appreciate that you've been very fair.)

A lot of people have commented that the Reds are too easy, and of course that's true. The Reds are not meant to be "alternate tees." The Red tees are for beginners, younger people, older people, and people who, for whatever reason, don't throw 200' with accuracy. The Blues are for everyone else.

Yes, the Blues may be a bit too hard to for Intermediate players or aging amateur players, but until we have White tees out there, that's how it has to be.
 
My impressions from playing it once from each tee (2 rounds) and a little reflection. *Regular pin placements... not a gold review.

Eegor, it is really refreshing to see someone make such a fair and thorough look at the new layout. Changing a beloved course is a tough sell. I do think that things will be a lot better in a year, once people have had a chance to get used to the new version. And, as people have pointed out, there are players in the DFW area who have their own personal reasons to be upset no matter how it turned out. Sad, but part of life. I will be posting my own thoughts in the next few days and hope to bring some reasonable-ness to what has become a very emotional discussion. (But why should disc golf be different from politics, right?)

To people who say the new course is shorter, let's remember that the original Blue course had four holes 235' or less, including one (#5) that was straight downhill. The new Blue course has zero holes under 235'. It is overall longer, and, with the use of elevation, angles, and width, definitely plays longer.

More incomprehensible to me is the argument that the new Blue course is easier. I think it's easy to show that it's not, and I'll be making the hole-by-hole case for that. And, as I said above, the Reds are now really for new players. I know you miss a longer Red course, and I understand that can be a real sacrifice for some people. The old Reds were more fun for experienced players. Then again, how many DFW courses even have two sets of tees?

#5 - Down hill and sloping to the left with a few trees in the way. Good birdie opportunity from either tee. Fun, finesse drive, but an easy 3 if no bird.

I'm glad to see some love for this hole. I really like it, especially given what we had to work with there.

#6 - Old hole 2 "neutered". Tees are closer and the pin is closer. Old #2 was one of my favorite holes to play. It always felt good to come away with a birdie 3. *Now this is a fairly simple par 3 with a birdie look if you hit the right height off the tee. No longer favorite hole" pedigree.

I get that. It was nice to have a par four there. Of course, a "birdie look" is not a birdie, and I expect scores here to be good. In any case, the important thing is that old #2 had to go. Just in the time I was there working on the course, I saw way too many people throwing their second shots from next to the sidewalk.

#9 - I really, really like this hole. Finesse placement of the drive and upshot to a tough pin placement. This hole matches the old #9 and the landscape work on the landing area is very nice. Good golf hole. My favorite hole on the front 9.

Thanks.

#11 - This is a fun hole. You basically play old 12 backwards and then across the field the old 11 pin was in. Downhill, long and risky drive with OB right. I like this one a lot. It's always fun to get to air it out down hill. (I used to like old 12 up hill. Apparently, I was a small minority).

Thanks, and, yes, I think you were in a minority (but I'm glad you liked it).

#12 - From the blue tee, this is a nice dogleg right that rewards accuracy. I like that its longer and you have more options than old 10 had from the blue. A little easier pin placement, but overall an improvement on old 10...

Thanks again.

#15 - I like this one a whole lot! Replaces the old 16 with a choice
of drives from the tee and a tunnel approach to the pin in a long par 5. This is my new favorite hole on the course. It makes you think all the way to the basket and punishes shots off line. This hole can separate the scores of a group of comparable players. There's really not enough of these like there used to be...

So glad to hear you appreciate it.

And thanks again for being fair – I've been surprised at how many of the comments in other places have been straight up inaccurate; they appear to be influenced by misinformation. But the truth will always come out, as they say.
 
We were able to play on the first Saturday it was set up in the golds and really enjoyed it. I could see how the blues would be great for everyday play and too be honest best for my game at this time but it's aleays fun to play the big boy layout just to see how good they really are. I too have read some very opinionated and flat incorrect info that is out there. I see people saying hold 4 is unsafe because of the sidewalk shot. Who in their right mind would think that's an option to play that hole so maybe a mando needs to go there. Overall I really enjoyed the old layout but am really excited for this new design. Thanks to Rockwall and John for a great course. I believe you asked before about the trees and how many cities would spend that on disc golf. The answer in DFW is one maybe two that I know of. Thanks again for all your input here and your work on the course.
 
Mark, Steve asked the right question, and you gave the right answer. Sorry too take away your eagle look. Believe it or not, one of the goals was to make the course tougher from the Blues and much tougher to the Gold. (I know you know that, and I appreciate that you've been very fair.)

A lot of people have commented that the Reds are too easy, and of course that's true. The Reds are not meant to be "alternate tees." The Red tees are for beginners, younger people, older people, and people who, for whatever reason, don't throw 200' with accuracy. The Blues are for everyone else.

Yes, the Blues may be a bit too hard to for Intermediate players or aging amateur players, but until we have White tees out there, that's how it has to be.

The course from the blues is harder for Intermediate/Rec players, but I for one am grateful for that. More challenging holes make us better, at first it's frustrating because scores go up and shots aren't made that we feel we should be making, but in the end we learn different lines and put different shots in our hands because we're forced to. Reds are in fact too easy for intermediate and above players, again I can appreciate that, I just have to get used to the longs being my normal go to tee pad, something I honestly should have done a long long time ago.

Do you think hole 17's blue tee will ever be opened up a tad? Or maybe I just need to finally develop some sort of roller game. I threw several pedestrian and sad turn over shots today, albeit it was raining and the tee pads were wet. The mulch going in makes a big difference too, 12's teepad was just wet, and not caked in mud. Hopefully 18's teepad will get some love, and hopefully this rain will let up for next weekend.
 
Who in their right mind would think that's an option to play that hole so maybe a mando needs to go there.

I have already spoken to parks about that, and it will be happening. Also on #8, since so many people are concerned -- perhaps rightly -- about some players using the new #3 fairway.

Overall I really enjoyed the old layout but am really excited for this new design.

Thanks -- that's the point. We started with really good and set out to make it better. And, yes, the City was amazing. And still is. More signs and water crossings went in today. And more good stuff on the way.
 
Any plans in place to combat the drainage near the basket on hole 8? I know it just rained and it's been cold, but that area is always wet and sloppy year round (we're starting to believe the city has some sort of pool drainage that runs down in to that area since it's wet even during the 110 degree dry summers). It's a mud pit right now, just absolutely miserable.
 
This area is pretty much always soggy and wet. Hated going from old 4 teepad to the basket thru here in the last but now we have to putt in it. If the basket got moved closer to the ridge it'd sacrifice some distance but would also clean up the green quite a bit. Or maybe sone sort of elevated basket and a built up green.
 

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Any plans in place to combat the drainage near the basket on hole 8? I know it just rained and it's been cold, but that area is always wet and sloppy year round (we're starting to believe the city has some sort of pool drainage that runs down in to that area since it's wet even during the 110 degree dry summers). It's a mud pit right now, just absolutely miserable.

I spoke to parks this weekend, and the #8 green was a topic of discussion. Of course, the fact that it's still raining isn't helping. They know what Plan A is, and I'm hoping they'll be implementing that soon. In any case, we are aware of it and are working on solutions.
 
John,
While I like some of the changes and am not sold on others, I really appreciate the time and effort that went into the redesign. I also appreciate your willingness to provide information and insight into what is going on and your willingness to listen.
 
John,
While I like some of the changes and am not sold on others, I really appreciate the time and effort that went into the redesign. I also appreciate your willingness to provide information and insight into what is going on and your willingness to listen.

I'm happy to provide information, and I'm happy to listen to any constructive input, because that's how we learn. I'm sending you a PM.

I just heard from parks this morning that they got 2" of rain in about an hour, along with 80mph winds. So they are dealing with damage all over the city. Amazingly, they still have a few guys working on the course today. I am very impressed with their commitment.
 
John, I live in the area and have played with several people who are pretty plugged in to the local scene that say that the course was redesigned without you having been there and actually walking the course. Could you comment on this?
 

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