Nose Down tips and tricks

[Jbultman]

I know I'm probably reviving some kind of old thread here, but I can't find many tips around, I've done some searching but am still a little lost and confused.

I've determinded I throw nose up, drivers getting max 360 average 350, with mids going 340 and fairways in between, not alot of variation. I've watched a couple videos and read some posts but can't find any real tips or tricks for keeping the nose down. Is it grip? wrist? hand placement? pull though? etc...

Any help would be amazing!
Thanks

 

[sidewinder22]

I'd say most people that struggle with nose issues is often related to not getting all your weight/balance forward on the front leg which will change the swing plane and trajectory and probably need to adjust grip/alignment/orientation, so the trajectory is slightly upward with the nose down.

Getting stuck with your weight back on the rear leg often causes a downward swing plane(high reachback - low follow through) as the spine tips over and people adjust their grip/alignment nose up to compensate for their downward trajectory and to not throwing into the ground and worm burning.

Also on distance shots you need to get the disc to change direction coming out of the apex so it's new nose is down relative to the change in trajectory. So on RHBH your initial trajectory should be leftward of the target and as the disc comes through the apex of it's flight it almost stalls and falls into a rightward trajectory toward the target. So the nose of the disc is always relative to the direction of the disc or the change in the direction as it curves through the air. The nose is not always on the front edge of the disc between you and the target, it's actually rare for that to happen on any kind of distance shot. The nose is the front edge of the disc between you and the apex up to the apex or the left/front edge between you and the target, and then typically mirrored on coming out of the apex on the right/front edge between you and the target.

As for grip I'd recommend playing around with Bratten's 2 finger grip to help re-orientate the disc into a better nose down position in the hand. Working on a standstill and One Leg Drill should help with getting your weight forward.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/gripittoripit.shtml
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/angles.shtml
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/distancelines.shtml

 

[slowplastic]

Make sure the disc is aligned in the palm of your hand correctly when wrapping your fingers around the disc, so that it is nose down relative to your forearm. This is as in the first link SW22 posted above. If the disc angle relative to your forearm isn't slightly nose down, you're cooked before you've even tried to throw.

After that the various reasons for issues that SW22 has pointed out can happen. Most common is as he said...people don't get off the back leg correctly so the spine angle is funky during the throw and you have to do some weird things with your swing plane and grip orientation to not either sky the disc or throw it into the ground.

 

[ILUVSMGS18]

I know I'm probably reviving some kind of old thread here, but I can't find many tips around, I've done some searching but am still a little lost and confused.

I've determinded I throw nose up, drivers getting max 360 average 350, with mids going 340 and fairways in between, not alot of variation. I've watched a couple videos and read some posts but can't find any real tips or tricks for keeping the nose down. Is it grip? wrist? hand placement? pull though? etc...

Any help would be amazing!
Thanks

I was actually going to ask a similar question but with a larger distance difference. My drivers go 380 on average 400 max, and mids 300 on average, 320 max, with my fairways in between. I know my bottom half needs work but I knew that after I could throw nose down I could easily figure out what works to improve my lower half.

 

[Grippenripp]

I'd say most people that struggle with nose issues is often related to not getting all your weight/balance forward on the front leg which will change the swing plane and trajectory and probably need to adjust grip/alignment/orientation, so the trajectory is slightly upward with the nose down.

Getting stuck with your weight back on the rear leg often causes a downward swing plane(high reachback - low follow through) as the spine tips over and people adjust their grip/alignment nose up to compensate for their downward trajectory and to not throwing into the ground and worm burning.

Also on distance shots you need to get the disc to change direction coming out of the apex so it's new nose is down relative to the change in trajectory. So on RHBH your initial trajectory should be leftward of the target and as the disc comes through the apex of it's flight it almost stalls and falls into a rightward trajectory toward the target. So the nose of the disc is always relative to the direction of the disc or the change in the direction as it curves through the air. The nose is not always on the front edge of the disc between you and the target, it's actually rare for that to happen on any kind of distance shot. The nose is the front edge of the disc between you and the apex up to the apex or the left/front edge between you and the target, and then typically mirrored on coming out of the apex on the right/front edge between you and the target.

As for grip I'd recommend playing around with Bratten's 2 finger grip to help re-orientate the disc into a better nose down position in the hand. Working on a standstill and One Leg Drill should help with getting your weight forward.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/gripittoripit.shtml
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/angles.shtml
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/distancelines.shtml

SW, thanks for the solid advice, just curious as to who this guy in this and it other videos I've seen you post is? Or what are his videos under in YouTube?

 

[timothy42b]

There is a video out there that says there are 3 causes for nose up:

1. Gripping it nose up to the forearm
2. Reaching back too high
3. Not transferring weight to the front leg.

On video I've noticed myself doing all three at the same time.

My question is does wrist pronation/supination have anything to do with it? Or is the disc gone before that happens?

 

[Lumberjack504]

SW, thanks for the solid advice, just curious as to who this guy in this and it other videos I've seen you post is? Or what are his videos under in YouTube?

SW is Seabas22 AKA the guy in the videos - search seabas22 on youtube

 

[Grippenripp]

SW is Seabas22 AKA the guy in the videos - search seabas22 on youtube

Thanks LJ, much obliged.

 

[Smigles]

Make sure the disc is aligned in the palm of your hand correctly when wrapping your fingers around the disc, so that it is nose down relative to your forearm.

Omg i think i finally found what i am doing wrong Gotta try this tomorrow.

 

[Grippenripp]

SW, so is the nose of the disc being down relative to the forearm just a fancy way of saying pronate the wrist? as always thanks.

 

[slowplastic]

SW, so is the nose of the disc being down relative to the forearm just a fancy way of saying pronate the wrist? as always thanks.

http://www.ergovancouver.net/wrist_movements.htm

Keep in mind I don't have perfect form, and because of that I don't get a full hit point active extension/pull or whatever is supposed to happen in 450+ throwers. But I think number 1 key is getting the disc aligned with forearm correctly, and you will need some "ulnar deviation" or "ulnar flexion" as seen in that link above. Basically getting the wrist down into the handshake position. Wrist pronation, as shown in that link as rotation of the wrist thumb-down/in should happen through the hit point to get full extension...this is what I don't concentrate on.

I think if you have poor wrist pronation or supination during the throw, as in you are telling your body to do it at the wrong time, that this often leads to torqued over throws. Lots of shots that come out with some anhyzer and stay that way, or in really bad cases lots of wobble on the release. I find it affects the disc more in this way than in a nose up flight.

 

[Grippenripp]

http://www.ergovancouver.net/wrist_movements.htm

Keep in mind I don't have perfect form, and because of that I don't get a full hit point active extension/pull or whatever is supposed to happen in 450+ throwers. But I think number 1 key is getting the disc aligned with forearm correctly, and you will need some "ulnar deviation" or "ulnar flexion" as seen in that link above. Basically getting the wrist down into the handshake position. Wrist pronation, as shown in that link as rotation of the wrist thumb-down/in should happen through the hit point to get full extension...this is what I don't concentrate on.

I think if you have poor wrist pronation or supination during the throw, as in you are telling your body to do it at the wrong time, that this often leads to torqued over throws. Lots of shots that come out with some anhyzer and stay that way, or in really bad cases lots of wobble on the release. I find it affects the disc more in this way than in a nose up flight.

Right on, actually this helps a whole lot.

 

[sidewinder22]

SW, so is the nose of the disc being down relative to the forearm just a fancy way of saying pronate the wrist? as always thanks.

Nose down or inline relative to forearm is a matter of how the disc is seated in your grip/hand/palm/fingers and how much ulnar deviation/bending the wrist down you use. This doesn't guarantee the nose is down to the trajectory though or nose down through the apex of the flight which are ultimately more important than the setup.

If you stand sideways to your target with closed shoulder and aim your arm/disc straight out to the target and have the disc level... now if you supinate your forearm palm up(wrist rolls over) it tilts the nose up - opposite side of disc from your palm. If you pronate your forearm palm down(wrist rolls under) it tilts the nose down to the trajectory. The nose is basically on the opposite side of the disc from your hand as the disc pivots out and releases from your hand down the trajectory.

Pronating palm down also allows your arm to fully extend more safely underneath your shoulder and you can push the disc targetward with your thumb with ulnar deviation(sideways karate chop or hammering motion) rather than wrist extension(backhand pimp slap). I don't really flex or extend the wrist much during the throw, and there's really not much power in your wrist extension and lots of top throwers will say their wrist is locked and some will even say it's straight. If you resist/load against the disc flexing your wrist you can get a tendon bounce or plyometric bounce/spring releasing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGGYsSUGKXk#t=4m

I also get some kind of nerve pain when trying to extend the wrist with it already deviated a lot, so I actually keep the wrist fairly neutral/slight deviation and flex, but arm supinated a good amount to keep the disc level in the backswing and then pronate and deviate through the hit/release with the tendon bounce and followthrough and the disc should maintain level to swing plane throughout all this. It's all vey much like using a hammer sideways and keeping the head of the hammer on plane to the head of the nail and pounding it through flush at the very end by releasing the head of the hammer.

 

[Grippenripp]

Nose down or inline relative to forearm is a matter of how the disc is seated in your grip/hand/palm/fingers and how much ulnar deviation/bending the wrist down you use. This doesn't guarantee the nose is down to the trajectory though or nose down through the apex of the flight which are ultimately more important than the setup.

If you stand sideways to your target with closed shoulder and aim your arm/disc straight out to the target and have the disc level... now if you supinate your forearm palm up(wrist rolls over) it tilts the nose up - opposite side of disc from your palm. If you pronate your forearm palm down(wrist rolls under) it tilts the nose down to the trajectory. The nose is basically on the opposite side of the disc from your hand as the disc pivots out and releases from your hand down the trajectory.

Pronating palm down also allows your arm to fully extend more safely underneath your shoulder and you can push the disc targetward with your thumb with ulnar deviation(sideways karate chop or hammering motion) rather than wrist extension(backhand pimp slap). I don't really flex or extend the wrist much during the throw, and there's really not much power in your wrist extension and lots of top throwers will say their wrist is locked and some will even say it's straight. If you resist/load against the disc flexing your wrist you can get a tendon bounce or plyometric bounce/spring releasing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGGYsSUGKXk#t=4m

I also get some kind of nerve pain when trying to extend the wrist with it already deviated a lot, so I actually keep the wrist fairly neutral/slight deviation and flex, but arm supinated a good amount to keep the disc level in the backswing and then pronate and deviate through the hit/release with the tendon bounce and followthrough and the disc should maintain level to swing plane throughout all this. It's all vey much like using a hammer sideways and keeping the head of the hammer on plane to the head of the nail and pounding it through flush at the very end by releasing the head of the hammer.

Thanks man, love the solid, detailed information you provide.

 

[DiscFifty]

340 with a mid? That's a great problem to have! To help solve nose up issues...I've taught this drill to several players so I know it works... simply do the following....

1) Pick a target on the ground 10 ft in front of you and hit it at full speed, several times. We're talking 10-20 throws.
2) Increase the target distance out to another 10 ft, repeat.
3) Repeat till you get out to 200-300-400ft. Yep.... eventually you will "get it" and it will become second nature. You'll learn to throw those far low "golf drives" that are so important in this sport.

 

[Jbultman]

Awesome information, thank you!! When you release a disc going for nose down, or just in general, are you releasing RHBH with your palm facing down, to the left or up?

Maybe this isn't the way to think about it thoughts?

 

[PureAngus]

I'd say most people that struggle with nose issues is often related to not getting all your weight/balance forward on the front leg which will change the swing plane and trajectory and probably need to adjust grip/alignment/orientation, so the trajectory is slightly upward with the nose down.

I've only recently discovered that this is 100% my problem. After messing with grip for too long, I've realized that I'm starting my reach back too early and accelerating before planting my front foot completely. Because of that, I end up often pulling low to high with my hand on the front of the disc as opposed to the outside of it during the throw.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

Awesome information, thank you!! When you release a disc going for nose down, or just in general, are you releasing RHBH with your palm facing down, to the left or up?

Maybe this isn't the way to think about it thoughts?

The correct way of thinking is pretty arbitrary and personal. There is a correct way of doing, BUT where your mind needs to be or what to focus on is everyone's individual thumbprint. That said there are probably some universal wrong ways to think, but I'm not the one to list those out.

For me. SW in a post some long time ago when someone was trying to justify using a towel for practice and this wrist rolling stuff came up, he had said something along the lines of your hand is the whip not the towel and your thumb should point at the target.

Thinking about pointing my thumb at the target has helped keep my palm in good position, relax my arm through my follow through, keep thumb pressure on the disc, NOT let go or release the disc but emphasize the rip from my hand. I've seen a huge jump in spin, nose down throws and overall accuracy and power together. Granted also working on every other part of my throw, but thinking about whipping my hand to point my thumb at the target has put a bunch of other pieces together (when i do it right).

 

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

For me, the issue was grip. One thing that is often overlooked is that everyone's hands are different. In general, the longer the fingers, the easier it is to angle the fingers back under the rim, which helps with keeping the nose down. Because I don't have hands that can palm a basketball, I came up with this ridiculously simple method to keep the nose down when I grip my disc. It achieves the same thing as lining the disc up correctly on the palm (which is demonstrated in many videos online). All I did was figure out how to do it faster with one hand while taking my disc out of the bag. See if this helps you. If you compare it to your usual grip, you may see a significant difference in angle. Hope this helps.

 

[frenchdavid50]

I've only recently discovered that this is 100% my problem. After messing with grip for too long, I've realized that I'm starting my reach back too early and accelerating before planting my front foot completely. Because of that, I end up often pulling low to high with my hand on the front of the disc as opposed to the outside of it during the throw.

Wow... this particular post really helped me beat my nose-up issues. I did fieldwork for 4.5 hours today, and learned so much. The main thing I figured out was to shift my weight onto my front/plant foot before using my arm. This helped me stop muscling, and really improved my throw. I didn't gain a lot of distance, but I can now throw drivers higher than a 7-9 speed without horrible results. This is great, I finally stopped worrying about my grip or wrist and realized what I needed was the right timing- although the wrist does play a part.