Now that's a pro call-out

[araytx]

Cool that some companies let people represent both them and a competitor at the same time.

Not a competitor... a trilogy!

 

[threevok]

FWIW, I disagree. PDGA-related disc golf is a tiny mismanaged footprint. Disc golf as an interesting recreational activity could achieve some mainstream attention completely independent of its pro tour and competitive world. Easiest example would be via exposure in films and media.

I believe C. Thomas Howell could make a major comeback with "Chain Out".

 

[RyanisCorriganis]

Out of curiosity, has GB followed up yet, or is the quote from the OP still the most recent comment?

No updates as of yet.

 

[Slider]

To put this sport into perspective, the NBA oversees NBA basketball events, the NFL oversees NFL football events, the MLB oversees MLB baseball events, etc., and the PDGA oversees PDGA evnets. These overseeing entities in some manner control player behaviors in their "sactioned" events they have a lot of influence on the culture of the event at hand. In basketball, there are a lot of rules that are enforced and called, travel is a normal call, technical fouls are called all the time and this comes with a financial penalty, a foul is nothing special, the same goes for the NFL and MLB. The PDGA oversees PDGA events and they need to work on controlling their events better when it comes to their different sactioned events, like maybe 5 officiators are required for a B tier, and maybe 8 to 10 for an A tier or whatever, maybe Nikko should be called for a technical and he would pay a minimal fine and that might change his behavior. I don't know the answer to making this sport more lucrative, but if the overseeing body does have a lot to do with it. Blame Nikko, blame anyone, but in the end some of the blame is with the PDGA, maybe not all is within their control. They might respond with legitimate reasons why the sport is the way it is. The PDGA board might say that making it a more professional sport is just not feasable, it costs to much to have rules enforced because there isn't enough money in the sport to pay for officiators. At the same time I think if this sport is going professional, the PDGA has to control their events which would mean doing their bestto controlplayers behaviors in their PDGA events and maybe Barsby has great points on what rules need to be changed, but has he considered that might not be financially feasable to entertain everything that he wants? Does he think about the money aspect of what he proposes? He does say that to be a professional dger is already a cash strapping deal, is Barsby willing to pay more to make this a professional sport (the fees would increase to pay for officators)? I don't know the answer, but very serious professional events deal with some serious money and take their refing very serious and it isn't about who your like and dislike...rules are rules.

My guess is that if the PDGA is going to take this sport to the next level, maybe they have to have PDGA events that have high entry fees to pay for real officiators who will call Nikko or anyother player on anything like a foot fault or any rules for that matter. The PDGA has some contorl over the culture of their events, and most PDGA events that I have been in, all do drugs and drink...very very family oriented and very professional (being faceious). My guess is that most of the dgers don't want a change in the culture...inexpensive and lets drink and do drugs and that is what is important...fun fun fun...it isn't a serious sport, fun is the word of the day, not seriousness. Fun is great, but for the professional seriousness and professionalism are very important.

Maybe the solution to making this a professoinal sport is increasing costs to play PDGA events, pay for refs which would pay for more enforced rules and in the end you are paying more for professionalism. Rules lead the way, enforcement is key to success. If this sport is going to get serious, rules and enforcement lead the way and if enforced propery have an effect on the players, they make the sport more professional by imposing rules without any bias. Michael Jordan has been called for fouls in his time, getting called for a foot fault shouldn't be anything special, it should be normal to get called here and there. In boxing the ref does his best to keep the game civil and under control.

 

[Thrival Time]

No updates as of yet.

Suspense...

 

[Thrival Time]

To put this sport into perspective, the NBA oversees NBA basketball events, the NFL oversees NFL football events, the MLB oversees MLB baseball events, etc., and the PDGA oversees PDGA evnets. These overseeing entities in some manner control player behaviors in their "sactioned" events they have a lot of influence on the culture of the event at hand. In basketball, there are a lot of rules that are enforced and called, travel is a normal call, technical fouls are called all the time and this comes with a financial penalty, a foul is nothing special, the same goes for the NFL and MLB. The PDGA oversees PDGA events and they need to work on controlling their events better when it comes to their different sactioned events, like maybe 5 officiators are required for a B tier, and maybe 8 to 10 for an A tier or whatever, maybe Nikko should be called for a technical and he would pay a minimal fine and that might change his behavior. I don't know the answer to making this sport more lucrative, but if the overseeing body does have a lot to do with it. Blame Nikko, blame anyone, but in the end some of the blame is with the PDGA, maybe not all is within their control. They might respond with legitimate reasons why the sport is the way it is. The PDGA board might say that making it a more professional sport is just not feasable, it costs to much to have rules enforced because there isn't enough money in the sport to pay for officiators. At the same time I think if this sport is going professional, the PDGA has to control their events which would mean doing their bestto controlplayers behaviors in their PDGA events and maybe Barsby has great points on what rules need to be changed, but has he considered that might not be financially feasable to entertain everything that he wants? Does he think about the money aspect of what he proposes? He does say that to be a professional dger is already a cash strapping deal, is Barsby willing to pay more to make this a professional sport (the fees would increase to pay for officators)? I don't know the answer, but very serious professional events deal with some serious money and take their refing very serious and it isn't about who your like and dislike...rules are rules.

My guess is that if the PDGA is going to take this sport to the next level, maybe they have to have PDGA events that have high entry fees to pay for real officiators who will call Nikko or anyother player on anything like a foot fault or any rules for that matter. The PDGA has some contorl over the culture of their events, and most PDGA events that I have been in, all do drugs and drink...very very family oriented and very professional (being faceious). My guess is that most of the dgers don't want a change in the culture...inexpensive and lets drink and do drugs and that is what is important...fun fun fun...it isn't a serious sport, fun is the word of the day, not seriousness. Fun is great, but for the professional seriousness and professionalism are very important.

Maybe the solution to making this a professoinal sport is increasing costs to play PDGA events, pay for refs which would pay for more enforced rules and in the end you are paying more for professionalism. Rules lead the way, enforcement is key to success. If this sport is going to get serious, rules and enforcement lead the way and if enforced propery have an effect on the players, they make the sport more professional by imposing rules without any bias. Michael Jordan has been called for fouls in his time, getting called for a foot fault shouldn't be anything special, it should be normal to get called here and there. In boxing the ref does his best to keep the game civil and under control.

Well said.

 

[optidiscic]

Regardless of anything bring said here. Just remember the world laughs at disc golf and always will.

I do agree that 4 Marshall's per a-tier with 1 on top of 2 lead card and 2 roving or something like that would be a reasonable way to address this issue. If a club wants to throw an a tier they damn well should be able to find 4 people to Marshall.
A b tier might require just 2 Marshall's etc
NT majors and worlds would require more just my opinion The tier status should include more than just financial resources

 

[mashnut]

Opti, I have the same issue with that as I do with people calling in violations in traditional golf. If you're watching the top card the whole time, it puts a potential competitive disadvantage on those players.

 

[DISCenchanted]

To put this sport into perspective, the NBA oversees NBA basketball events, the NFL oversees NFL football events, the MLB oversees MLB baseball events, etc., and the PDGA oversees PDGA evnets. These overseeing entities in some manner control player behaviors in their "sactioned" events they have a lot of influence on the culture of the event at hand. In basketball, there are a lot of rules that are enforced and called, travel is a normal call, technical fouls are called all the time and this comes with a financial penalty, a foul is nothing special, the same goes for the NFL and MLB. The PDGA oversees PDGA events and they need to work on controlling their events better when it comes to their different sactioned events, like maybe 5 officiators are required for a B tier, and maybe 8 to 10 for an A tier or whatever, maybe Nikko should be called for a technical and he would pay a minimal fine and that might change his behavior. I don't know the answer to making this sport more lucrative, but if the overseeing body does have a lot to do with it. Blame Nikko, blame anyone, but in the end some of the blame is with the PDGA, maybe not all is within their control. They might respond with legitimate reasons why the sport is the way it is. The PDGA board might say that making it a more professional sport is just not feasable, it costs to much to have rules enforced because there isn't enough money in the sport to pay for officiators. At the same time I think if this sport is going professional, the PDGA has to control their events which would mean doing their bestto controlplayers behaviors in their PDGA events and maybe Barsby has great points on what rules need to be changed, but has he considered that might not be financially feasable to entertain everything that he wants? Does he think about the money aspect of what he proposes? He does say that to be a professional dger is already a cash strapping deal, is Barsby willing to pay more to make this a professional sport (the fees would increase to pay for officators)? I don't know the answer, but very serious professional events deal with some serious money and take their refing very serious and it isn't about who your like and dislike...rules are rules.

My guess is that if the PDGA is going to take this sport to the next level, maybe they have to have PDGA events that have high entry fees to pay for real officiators who will call Nikko or anyother player on anything like a foot fault or any rules for that matter. The PDGA has some contorl over the culture of their events, and most PDGA events that I have been in, all do drugs and drink...very very family oriented and very professional (being faceious). My guess is that most of the dgers don't want a change in the culture...inexpensive and lets drink and do drugs and that is what is important...fun fun fun...it isn't a serious sport, fun is the word of the day, not seriousness. Fun is great, but for the professional seriousness and professionalism are very important.

Maybe the solution to making this a professoinal sport is increasing costs to play PDGA events, pay for refs which would pay for more enforced rules and in the end you are paying more for professionalism. Rules lead the way, enforcement is key to success. If this sport is going to get serious, rules and enforcement lead the way and if enforced propery have an effect on the players, they make the sport more professional by imposing rules without any bias. Michael Jordan has been called for fouls in his time, getting called for a foot fault shouldn't be anything special, it should be normal to get called here and there. In boxing the ref does his best to keep the game civil and under control.

Great post, can't say I disagree with any of the points made. At this point, disc golf is more of a culture than an organized sport, and I'm not convinced that will ever change. Again, I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see it.

 

[optidiscic]

none of them were drafted to do so.

Suspense...

Opti, I have the same issue with that as I do with people calling in violations in traditional golf. If you're watching the top card the whole time, it puts a potential competitive disadvantage on those players.

It's not perfect but it's more practical than trusting 20 somethings who are sharing girlfriends and gas money to be trusted lol at least the top guys have to be play by the rules and I addressed it with some roving Marshall's

I have always believed that the worst rule violations occur in rec and intermediate divisions out of ignorance or just not caring by players. This is why roving Marshall's is good. Violations will be called occasionally at least.

At the same time I also think some of these crazy hot rounds are enhanced by the brat packs looking the other way at certain violations.

 

[Thrival Time]

Great post, can't say I disagree with any of the points made. At this point, disc golf is more of a culture than an organized sport, and I'm not convinced that will ever change. Again, I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see it.

I will have to add that the scene in 21 jump street does not help much either. :\

Sometimes, it makes me feel tempted to walk up to the neighborhood private ball golf course (has a reputation for people yelling at other people walking by some of the houses in the area) and throw the flags out and put a basket on it. Of course, we all have to keep it professional, so back to the drawing board for me...

 

[optidiscic]

I will also add is it fair that the top card gets the camera man and the gallery?

 

[DISCenchanted]

FWIW, I disagree. PDGA-related disc golf is a tiny mismanaged footprint. Disc golf as an interesting recreational activity could achieve some mainstream attention completely independent of its pro tour and competitive world. Easiest example would be via exposure in films and media.

Agree or disagree, try to visualize how these things could be true:
Dane Cook's Tourgasm episode probably furthered public awareness of disc golf more than the PDGA has in its history. Brodie Smith throwing at trash cans is probably the most widely known form of disc golf. Likely that 25%+ of people who recognize a DG basket as such know it from 21 Jumpstreet. Kids are most likely to recognize a basket from Zoe 101. Simple numbers of eyeballs on the media, no judgement as to authenticity of source or content.

I think Pro DG will be fighting for a long long time to reach the public consciousness. No matter how it goes down, I'm certain that Rec DG will reach the mainstream before Pro DG does.

Simple litmus test: is Halo a competitive sport? Who's the chucklehead, the sponsored competitive Halo tourney player or the other bazillion Rec Halo players? This is how the world will view disc golf, with its pro scene as a novelty offshoot of a common leisure game.

All valid points, but I think our definition of "mainstream" is different. When I think mainstream I'm envisioning disc golf becoming as popular as some other televised professional sports like golf or tennis. Like turning on the sports highlights on a Sunday evening and seeing some footage of a major tournament. Your definition of mainstream seems to be where disc golf is at right now, where a good number of people have "heard about that" or "know someone who plays" but it is still a relatively unknown persuit when it comes to the masses.

 

[Streets]

I will also add is it fair that the top card gets the camera man and the gallery?

When there is usually one or two cameramen? Yes.

 

[mashnut]

I will also add is it fair that the top card gets the camera man and the gallery?

That's how it works in any other sport, the best players get the most media coverage. I'm not sure where you're going with this particular straw man.

 

[ranger]

Regardless of anything bring said here. Just remember the world laughs at disc golf and always will.

I do agree that 4 Marshall's per a-tier with 1 on top of 2 lead card and 2 roving or something like that would be a reasonable way to address this issue. If a club wants to throw an a tier they damn well should be able to find 4 people to Marshall.
A b tier might require just 2 Marshall's etc
NT majors and worlds would require more just my opinion The tier status should include more than just financial resources

yup

frolf

 

[optidiscic]

That's how it works in any other sport, the best players get the most media coverage. I'm not sure where you're going with this particular straw man.

U implied it's not fair that the lead 2 cards have the burden of a Marshall I countered that's no different than the camera and the gallery so what's the issue?

 

[davetherocketguy]

Suspense...

Mmmmmm...not so much.

 

[Thrival Time]

That's how it works in any other sport, the best players get the most media coverage. I'm not sure where you're going with this particular straw man.

I agree. The lower profile players in sports like ball golf only get attention while they are ahead of big name players. Once they choke, the media treats them like they were never at the event.

 

[mashnut]

U implied it's not fair that the lead 2 cards have the burden of a Marshall I countered that's no different than the camera and the gallery so what's the issue?

Because the camera and gallery don't dictate rules enforcement, a full time marshall only with one card would.