Oblique Sling

[sidewinder22]

Informative video, as usual!

Is it possible to have a good brace and not have a good sling?

I ask because my bracing is generally ok(not to say it is the best), however my shoulder and bicep are sore after I practice. I'm sure this is indicative of me pulling with the shoulder instead of the "sling".

Maybe, but I think of everything as being related to each other. Like maybe your brace is good for pulling, but not slinging.

 

[navel]

Informative video, as usual!

Is it possible to have a good brace and not have a good sling?

I ask because my bracing is generally ok(not to say it is the best), however my shoulder and bicep are sore after I practice. I'm sure this is indicative of me pulling with the shoulder instead of the "sling".

It is possible. Your brace is like the hand holding a sling shot. Your sling is like the rubber band.
Your brace can be balanced but your sling might not be loaded if it's got no resistance and load.

Try loading it from the ground up: Throw a few controlled and short shots just using your rear hip/butt as controlled power. Focus on loading it and feeling a usable resistance that you can release on auto when you brace. Then let that feeling travel up your oblique sling a bit, loading it bit by bit when you feel comfortable with your shots, until your whole sling feels like a whip.
Remember to feel the connection through the whole sling. Your hip/butt should accelerate your already travelling core, your core should accelerate your already travelling shoulders etc.

That might make you loosen up a bit in your arm when you get the hang of it.

 

[crd 81]

Maybe, but I think of everything as being related to each other. Like maybe your brace is good for pulling, but not slinging.

Gotcha.

While the brace gets talked about a lot and is the centerpiece of having good form, would it be a good idea to focus more on/ feel of the sling as the centerpiece while not neglecting the brace?

I am assuming that focusing on/feeling the sling may make self-correcting easier in other areas of the throw. For example, in order to have a good sling you have to have a good brace. As you said, they relate to each other.

Anyway, thanks for all that you do.

 

[sidewinder22]

Gotcha.

While the brace gets talked about a lot and is the centerpiece of having good form, would it be a good idea to focus more on/ feel of the sling as the centerpiece while not neglecting the brace?

I am assuming that focusing on/feeling the sling may make self-correcting easier in other areas of the throw. For example, in order to have a good sling you have to have a good brace. As you said, they relate to each other.

Anyway, thanks for all that you do.

Tossing a sledgehammer should help you feel the sling and how you need to brace in dynamic balance to it to sling it out away from you.

 

[Salto]

Informative video, as usual!

Is it possible to have a good brace and not have a good sling?


I ask because my bracing is generally ok(not to say it is the best), however my shoulder and bicep are sore after I practice. I'm sure this is indicative of me pulling with the shoulder instead of the "sling".

I have the opposite of you. I feel a good sling effect and do not experience soreness. But I don't brace well.

While the brace gets talked about a lot and is the centerpiece of having good form, would it be a good idea to focus more on/ feel of the sling as the centerpiece while not neglecting the brace?

In my progress I think I am getting the sling right before the brace. I think it's a good idea to first figure out the sling. For reference, I don't feel I am able to bring much momentum in the throw, as I will step beyond my brace if I'm not really slow. However, that rubber band effect seems to be enough to get me to 425 ft/130 meters often. And it feels effortless, no strain on my shoulders or elbow, and can throw all day.

I am now working on the swivel stairs and 'the move'. To get a better brace and increase the range of motion in my hips. I feel it's the final missing piece of my puzzle.

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[navel]

Didn't really know where to put this. So here it is.

This video looks promising. First time (that I know of at least) where muscle avtivation has been analyzed in the disc golf throw. More data on this will be interesting. Easy to see that the muscle avtivation travels in a wave through the oblique sling system with an active and stable core.

 

[Brychanus]

Didn't really know where to put this. So here it is.

This video looks promising. First time (that I know of at least) where muscle avtivation has been analyzed in the disc golf throw. More data on this will be interesting. Easy to see that the muscle avtivation travels in a wave through the oblique sling system with an active and stable core.

Finally! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Dingus]

I am teaching my 6 yo son how to hit, and something from youtube struck me, this idea that keeping your elbow up when hitting allows you to "pull back" on your oblique sling. That isn't exactly what the guy said but it seemed to logically extend. Has anyone attempted to gain some benefits from raising up the off arm on a backhand?

The counter to this is raising the lead arm on a forehand, which also seems to lend some beneficial muscle fascia tension in baseball for pitchers (above). Almost all pitchers seem to counterbalance their throwing arm with a high and back lead arm position. SW22 seems to do this exactly like a pitcher would naturally in his FH, while most pros do a less dramatic, lower arm slot move.

How much does the off arm impact the ability to load the throwing arm?

 

[sidewinder22]

I am teaching my 6 yo son how to hit, and something from youtube struck me, this idea that keeping your elbow up when hitting allows you to "pull back" on your oblique sling. That isn't exactly what the guy said but it seemed to logically extend. Has anyone attempted to gain some benefits from raising up the off arm on a backhand?



The counter to this is raising the lead arm on a forehand, which also seems to lend some beneficial muscle fascia tension in baseball for pitchers (above). Almost all pitchers seem to counterbalance their throwing arm with a high and back lead arm position. SW22 seems to do this exactly like a pitcher would naturally in his FH, while most pros do a less dramatic, lower arm slot move.

How much does the off arm impact the ability to load the throwing arm?

BH - I think more about getting the off shoulder higher in the backswing, rather than the elbow. That stretches the torso sling and gives the lead shoulder more space to swing/load underneath. You can raise the elbow and it doesn't stretch the torso. Marc Jarvis keeps his off arm in and leverages from it.

FH - I used to pitch when I was younger, so my motion is just engrained from that. I do feel that the off arm leverages the rest of the swing.

 

[RFrance]

I'm actually starting to feel the rubber band stretch much better now and I was wondering about fascia growth. I came across this video which is more about tendons but it did have this graph which shows how far fascia and tendon growth lags behind muscle growth.

When the rock climber and power lifter compared the forearm tendons it reminded me of this picture of Will Schusterick. I think there is probably a similar one with Paul McBeth.

 

[Brychanus]

I'm actually starting to feel the rubber band stretch much better now and I was wondering about fascia growth. I came across this video which is more about tendons but it did have this graph which shows how far fascia and tendon growth lags behind muscle growth.

Super glad you shared this, I was starting to wonder about physical adaptation in the long run.

Looks like patience remains the virtue. Those lagged fascia/ligament/tendon/cartilage curves suggest to me yet another reason not to just go out there blastin' before you have a foundation of good form and time to build up those vulnerable tissues. I wonder how age moderates the curves.

Check out that Ape Index on the climber. Holy Sh!t. Hope he discovers disc golf.

 

[Brychanus]

I think there is probably a similar one with Paul McBeth.

Great, now I'm on the internet looking for disc golfer forearms.

 

[sidewinder22]

I'm actually starting to feel the rubber band stretch much better now and I was wondering about fascia growth. I came across this video which is more about tendons but it did have this graph which shows how far fascia and tendon growth lags behind muscle growth.

When the rock climber and power lifter compared the forearm tendons it reminded me of this picture of Will Schusterick. I think there is probably a similar one with Paul McBeth.

Great, now I'm on the internet looking for disc golfer forearms.

 

[timothy42b]

Does that imply the forearm muscles are active in accelerating the disc, or just in hanging on to it? Because they sure don't look very relaxed.

 

[Brychanus]

So far I have tended to think "just hanging on to it". In the Starting a Lawnmower thread we talked about a ~60 lbs force as the disc is accelerating into the hit at high 60s mph, and as you mentioned you need enough friction to hang on. I always tended to think that deeper brain mechanisms are kicking in reflexively to clamp going into the hit (since trying to time it consciously seems improbable). The relationship between the force and grip pressure determines when the disc ejects.

I recall that people around here have talked about a flow of tension/stretch/reflexes in the arm like swinging a club, bat, hammer etc. that trigger, like tricep contracting as nose rips around.

In general it's interesting that I think about my arm less and less as form develops, but there's certainly a sequence activating. I just think it needs to be conditioned to be as loose as possible to not get those effects in the wrong places at the wrong times.

 

[RocHucker]

Does that imply the forearm muscles are active in accelerating the disc, or just in hanging on to it? Because they sure don't look very relaxed.

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will come along and answer, but I'll give a preliminary response since this line of thought is something that I've struggled with with various body parts.

I think that "is it active or is it relaxed" is a false dichotomy. There is a taut/tense/springy kind of state that a muscle can have that is not actively initiating movement on its own, but will bounce back if it is moved. It is wrong to think of it as "actively using" this muscle to push or pull something, but also wrong to think of the muscle as totally "relaxed" and leaving its associated joints to bend loose and free.

For example, if you pull back and release a slingshot in order to launch something, the band of the slingshot is not "active" (your hand/arm is the active thing that is adding energy to the system), but the band of the slingshot also is not loose/floppy/relaxed. It is storing energy elastically.

Hope that helps.

 

[RocHucker]

Oops, looks like Brychanus ninja'd me

 

[HB2017]

Interesting that in the stills of McBeth, Climo, and GG, the skin over the elbow and the back of the forearm looks crumpled. I think it's sliding forward due to inertia as the meat of the forearm slows decelerates just prior to release.