One Leg Drill, maybe progress

[timothy42b]

I haven't posted form in a long time but felt like I might be on the right track.
The last two throws went 180 and 190 feet with almost no perceived effort, with an Aviar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsLkaajGwvI

 

[Brychanus]

Let's get your whole body a little more loaded up & better connected to gravity.

Tilt shoulder in the backswing to load the core/oblique slings:
https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/657839470

Recommend you loosen up that arm and get it better connected to your weight with windmills:
https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/678879871

See SW22 for lots of helpful variants:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1pkfJtVq-8&ab_channel=seabas22

 

[sidewinder22]

Behind camera view would likely show your shoulders are behind your knees toward right/east Teeside as your spine extends. You want to swing your shoulder more over the lead knee toward west/left Teeside.

 

[timothy42b]

I think I understand what I'm doing but not how to fix.

I just shot video from behind, in my basement. In backswing position, right shoulder is over right knee, left shoulder is East of the knee, rotation takes place on an axis between the two. (center of the hips)

I think you are saying the rotational axis should be over the knee instead of behind (east) of it.

 

[sidewinder22]

Where is your right shoulder in power pocket? I'm guessing east of your right knee.

Here you can how much further forward my CoG is and how I pivot thru more level, while you are extending much more upward.

 

[timothy42b]

Thanks. So while I'm sure I'm stacked over my right knee, I'm still too far behind when I rotate. This is frustrating - it was starting to feel like I was getting it.

I did not realize I was rising up on to the front leg instead of settling down to it, thought I'd fixed that. Brychanis caught that too.

 

[sidewinder22]

Thanks. So while I'm sure I'm stacked over my right knee, I'm still too far behind when I rotate. This is frustrating - it was starting to feel like I was getting it.

I did not realize I was rising up on to the front leg instead of settling down to it, thought I'd fixed that. Brychanis caught that too.

I think it looks better in general. You are doing a cross between OLD and SS with a stride or little one step, so there's some weirdness in the combination of drills.

Try a little more stagger of the rear foot eastward and keeping your lead heel on the ground(toes can go up) and extending the lead knee into the backswing so it's like reverse ewalk. Also try to keep swinging back and forth more without stopping or pausing before starting backswing, keep it flowing continuously right into the swing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IFO7J3AV5Y#t=5m30s

 

[timothy42b]

asking if I'm on the right track. have never thrown 300

I've rearranged my schedule to get to the soccer fields when they aren't full of kids. (lawnmower crew has interfered a couple times too) I've done a lot of throwing the past two weeks.

Here's a Beto drill, inspired by that recent thread. I really don't know what I'm supposed to be focusing on or learning from it. But I did a whole bunch of them.

https://youtu.be/

And here I'm back to the OLD. They felt pretty good this week, didn't go much farther but seemed to be cleaner. Two things that maybe made a difference, really trying to pendulum, and trying to make the swing one move instead of three.

Hopefully someone can suggest the most important thing to work on now.
I don't expect 500 feet at age 70 and 130 pounds, but I can't believe I can't learn to throw 300.

https://youtu.be/

 

[bryantlikes]

Looks to me like you'd probably add a fair amount of distance just by fixing your grip. The angle of the disc when you start your swing means that it will come out very nose up which kills the distance.

The thing that really fixed this issue for me was switching to a three finger grip and then tucking the pinkie under the rim to help get the disc angled correctly.

 

[Brychanus]

Agree on grip. The better the grip is, the more posture adjusts around it.

Your swing is too flat because your legs are not pogoing and helping you pendulum and rock your body.

You need to get your legs to rock the body. Let's see you get more bounce and pump in your legs. Notice when I move here that these little bounces up and down are what's rocking my hips and body back and forth. When I move to one leg or actual throws now I still feel the bounces - they're just small and quick so you can't easily see them on camera.



Practice getting bouncy on the front leg, then let the bounce move your front hip and lead the swing.

 

[timothy42b]

Looks to me like you'd probably add a fair amount of distance just by fixing your grip. The angle of the disc when you start your swing means that it will come out very nose up which kills the distance.

The thing that really fixed this issue for me was switching to a three finger grip and then tucking the pinkie under the rim to help get the disc angled correctly.

Thanks for looking and commenting.

I'm still not sure about grip. I've been using the three finger grip from ChrisWoj's video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0qAOQGtpiw.

I've noticed my Beto comes out super nose up no matter what I do, but most of the OLDs were nose down. One thing I didn't expect that made a difference. From Beto I realized I was precurling my wrist (palmar flexion.) When I started concentrating on keeping the wrist neutral in the backswing throws became much less nose up. I think it's related to wrist curl interfering with coffee pouring.

I did experiment with two and one finger grips Friday; not much difference I could tell. Fan grip was worse though.

 

[timothy42b]

Agree on grip. The better the grip is, the more posture adjusts around it.

Your swing is too flat because your legs are not pogoing and helping you pendulum and rock your body.

I've noticed the flat swing myself and am still struggling with how to do that better. I realized I haven't been videoing and so my swing did not look like how it felt, so now I'm shooting much more video.

 

[Brychanus]

I've noticed the flat swing myself and am still struggling with how to do that better. I realized I haven't been videoing and so my swing did not look like how it felt, so now I'm shooting much more video.

I often pick exactly one thing to fix, do a relevant drill for 5-10 mins, and then immediately switching to throwing. I video 5-10 shots, then adjust, and repeat video throw cycles til I reach my shot cap.

I think it might also help to revisit how Clement talks about swinging on one leg. Only diff in DG is bringing the posture to swing forward over the front leg like SW22's. Notice that Clement's getting a nice pump and compression into that front leg that he emphasizes a bit when he moves:



That's the pump that loads and unloads, leading the swing. The backswing and swing should be in rhythm with it. You might need to exaggerate the compression and decompression into the front leg until it feels automatic.

I had a lot of weak upper body swings with poor snap until I got that pumping action and better posture. Then when I started to drill down on the arm this week with hammers it started to save my shoulder and the snap increased again. I was getting my easiest, straightest, and longest Comet shots in heavy woods this weekend just by slowing down and making sure all my front side action was cleaner. Several clean 300' low-ceiling tunnel shots. It was also much easier to throw snappy one leg escape shots the couple times I was in the rough.

Most of the power comes from the rhythmic pump off the front leg and better arm leverage like a hammer swing.

 

[timothy42b]

I often pick exactly one thing to fix, do a relevant drill for 5-10 mins, and then immediately switching to throwing. I video 5-10 shots, then adjust, and repeat video throw cycles til I reach my shot cap.


That's the pump that loads and unloads, leading the swing. The backswing and swing should be in rhythm with it. You might need to exaggerate the compression and decompression into the front leg until it feels automatic.

I think I must be misdirecting the pump. It should send my hip back, not up. I have some video that shows my throwing shoulder lower in backswing but rising in forward swing - leading to an uncontrolled anny and disc deep in the woods. I'll look at today's video a bit closer. Throws felt good today, but still noseup on Beto, much better on OLD. That's all I'm doing for a while.

 

[azplaya25]

Thanks for looking and commenting.

I'm still not sure about grip. I've been using the three finger grip from ChrisWoj's video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0qAOQGtpiw.

I've noticed my Beto comes out super nose up no matter what I do, but most of the OLDs were nose down. One thing I didn't expect that made a difference. From Beto I realized I was precurling my wrist (palmar flexion.) When I started concentrating on keeping the wrist neutral in the backswing throws became much less nose up. I think it's related to wrist curl interfering with coffee pouring.

I did experiment with two and one finger grips Friday; not much difference I could tell. Fan grip was worse though.

I feel like your grip looks just like SW22. As long as your shoulder rotates properly you should come though swinging upwards with the disc nose down…

 

[timothy42b]

I feel like your grip looks just like SW22. As long as your shoulder rotates properly you should come though swinging upwards with the disc nose down…

Thanks. Yesterday's throws looked better, until I watched the video more carefully.

My backswing position looks close to sw22 now but as I move forward my head rises continually and my shoulder is behind my foot at release. I think that's why I'm still nose up.

 

[Rastnav]

I believe that the big issue causing nose up release is your forearm rotation as you swing through from your chest.

You can see that when the disc is even with your chest you have a more neutral position, with your palm facing your chest (or it may even feel like it's rotated upwards to you). Don't pay attention to the disc here, because I think you are just gripping it loosely so that the disc is "drooping". By the time you release I believe it has corrected to be in line with the palm as your grip naturally tightens.

As you move towards release, you lose that rotation and your palm is facing more towards the ground. I think that is causing the nose up release. You can see your hand is dipping below your elbow, which (I think) is a symptom of that pronation.

Josh at Overthrow was asked in the most recent form review video how you get nose down and his advice was (roughly and IIRC) to move towards supination (palm up) as you release. If you do that without a disc, I think you'll feel yourself get to that "pouring the tea" position.

 

[Flashblastx]

It looks to me like you are not really shifting your weight then swinging in your pre pumps.

When you throw. it looks like you are just pulling the disc straight across the chest, I could be wrong but that's how it appears. Try swinging shoulder back from the ground up and then shift your weight and swing it forward.

Watch these videos and try to find the rhythm of the swing.

https://youtu.be/CvCMCeP2NXk

You should feel like all your weight transfers then swings. No weight on the back leg before the disc starts coming forward.

I believe that the big issue causing nose up release is your forearm rotation as you swing through from your chest.

You can see that when the disc is even with your chest you have a more neutral position, with your palm facing your chest (or it may even feel like it's rotated upwards to you). Don't pay attention to the disc here, because I think you are just gripping it loosely so that the disc is "drooping". By the time you release I believe it has corrected to be in line with the palm as your grip naturally tightens.

As you move towards release, you lose that rotation and your palm is facing more towards the ground. I think that is causing the nose up release. You can see your hand is dipping below your elbow, which (I think) is a symptom of that pronation.

Josh at Overthrow was asked in the most recent form review video how you get nose down and his advice was (roughly and IIRC) to move towards supination (palm up) as you release. If you do that without a disc, I think you'll feel yourself get to that "pouring the tea" position.

I would definitely not agree with supination as you release. You cannot push the disc/momentum away which is the most powerful transition of momentum. Would you hammer/hit a wall with your lateral aspect (thumb side) of your hand? You would pound the medial side (pinky side) with a closed fist. There is no power in supination. All the big throwers end up with the thumb rolling down/internal rotation of the humerus through the hit and then recoiling into external rotation of the arm swings through high.

I don't think nose angle is something to focus on at all. If you have good body movement good nose angle comes with it. Focus on the macro not the micro till you can fine tune the rhythm.

 

[Brychanus]

I think I must be misdirecting the pump. It should send my hip back, not up. I have some video that shows my throwing shoulder lower in backswing but rising in forward swing - leading to an uncontrolled anny and disc deep in the woods. I'll look at today's video a bit closer. Throws felt good today, but still noseup on Beto, much better on OLD. That's all I'm doing for a while.

It kind pumps it up relative to the ground and back away from the target. If you pendulum back, and swing with a bit more hyzer it might help get your body to pump against the ground better.

I don't claim ideal postures here but the first hammer swing & pump are in hyzer here. It is much easier to learn how to get that front leg action and hip clearing to lead the swing in hyzer since you have to pump your hip more up and away against gravity:



I agree that the initial grip might be ok but it does look somewhat nose up in the last vid. I imagine and practice slashing forward into the hit like seabas22 Slash thru now and like I go over in a few ways in that new hammer vid.

 

[Rastnav]

Would you hammer/hit a wall with your lateral aspect (thumb side) of your hand? You would pound the medial side (pinky side) with a closed fist. There is no power in supination. All the big throwers end up with the thumb rolling down/internal rotation of the humerus through the hit and then recoiling into external rotation of the arm swings through high.

It's the difference between a backfist and a hammerfist. (Video for illustrative purposes only):
https://youtu.be/74Cp6udHJdw?t=402

You can't throw a disc using a hammerfist. And if you throw either and roll under while you are throwing, you are going to have a bad time.

I don't think nose angle is something to focus on at all. If you have good body movement good nose angle comes with it. Focus on the macro not the micro till you can fine tune the rhythm.

This seems to me highly non-standard advice. I believe that commonly nose angle is perceived as the biggest/earliest flaw in developing a swing. Hard to correct anything else without correcting big nose angle issues.