Paige Pierce loses huge opportunity

[Streets]

I actually love Crazy and his wacky commentary (creepy whisper immediately into crazy orgasmic booms) but if the players can hear him whispering and if he's going up to players discs and in the way before the players themselves....

His commentary is hilarious, maybe get someone to pair with him who can rein him in a little.

 

[mfcastillo17]

"90% of what Disc Golf Planet does is unprofessional"
-PP

best quote of the interview. She was trying so hard not to let loose and totally dump on DGP and Crazy but she defiantly got her point across and I guarantee that she is not the only player that feels that way.

 

[joshmo65]

it was in the smashbox podcast. they knew about 1hr 45min in that Hokum was in a bad accident. Eventually about an hour before Paige found out that Sarah could play and was on her way in.

Yes, but Rebecca did not inform any of the players that they were delaying the start of the round until she pulled in the top 3 cards 5 minutes before scheduled tee off. None of the other cards on the course knew about the delay in start.

Sarah/Paige were all on the last card (meaning there would be no delay for other players) so Paige was actively trying to organize somehow to delay the start. It eventually was delayed about 15-20min, so Sarah was fortunate to have missed only two holes to what could've been 4 or more holes.

Sarah and Paige were not on the same card as Paige was on 2nd card (starting on hole 8) and Sarah was on lead card (starting on hole 7). The only solution that I thought might have worked was that the masters and grandmaster women were starting on holes 1-4 with no one on holes 5 and 6. I think that it would have been possible to delay the time that it took the people on hole 4 to finish hole 5 without affecting the tournament.

 

[joshmo65]

What I would like to know is who the person was who told Paige and some others that Sara was gonna get to replay the two holes she missed. That's some bs right there.

I believe that it was Rebecca Duffy, but I am not certain that she truly meant it. The girls were contemplating taking extra time on every hole and holding up the whole tournament on their own. I believe (hope) that the reason that Rebecca told the girls that Sarah would be able to play the holes afterwards was to keep the tournament moving (after she delayed it) instead of having a huge backup behind the girls who were actively trying to delay.

 

[BionicRib]

I believe that it was Rebecca Duffy, but I am not certain that she truly meant it. The girls were contemplating taking extra time on every hole and holding up the whole tournament on their own. I believe (hope) that the reason that Rebecca told the girls that Sarah would be able to play the holes afterwards was to keep the tournament moving (after she delayed it) instead of having a huge backup behind the girls who were actively trying to delay.

Paige went out of her way to not name this person. I doubt it was rebecca

 

[Streets]

"90% of what Disc Golf Planet does is unprofessional"
-PP

best quote of the interview. She was trying so hard not to let loose and totally dump on DGP and Crazy but she defiantly got her point across and I guarantee that she is not the only player that feels that way.

And I feel like if she said it, then it must have really been bad. She seems like somebody who wouldn't just throw somebody under a bus for no good reason.

 

[runningDoc]

Yes, but Rebecca did not inform any of the players that they were delaying the start of the round until she pulled in the top 3 cards 5 minutes before scheduled tee off. None of the other cards on the course knew about the delay in start.

Sarah and Paige were not on the same card as Paige was on 2nd card (starting on hole 8) and Sarah was on lead card (starting on hole 7). The only solution that I thought might have worked was that the masters and grandmaster women were starting on holes 1-4 with no one on holes 5 and 6. I think that it would have been possible to delay the time that it took the people on hole 4 to finish hole 5 without affecting the tournament.

Yup I was wrong and assumed that Paige was on that lead card with Sarah.. Paige's card plans to slow play by taking 30sec for each throw and "losing" a disc multiple times was thwarted when they were tricked into believing that there was a special rule provision that Sarah could play the holes she missed Paige's card were so fooled by that sneaky white lie they played normally paced right after and ran up to Sarah after and had her throw the two holes she missed

 

[mfcastillo17]

And I feel like if she said it, then it must have really been bad. She seems like somebody who wouldn't just throw somebody under a bus for no good reason.

Agreed. Now that DGP isn't the only one in the game as far as live broadcasting goes, there in no need to put up with their crap anymore. Terry and the Smashboxx crew do a great job with their live broadcast. The best IMO that we've had with commentary so far was what DD did at the GBO with Dixon and Robert McCall on the broadcast. They were well informed and very professional in the manner in which they called the round. Having that and Smashboxx going on at the same time on different cards was a double bonus.

Terry has the sense to ask the players for constructive criticism regarding his coverage and commentary. Crazy is just that, crazy. I believe either Paige or Johnny said on the broadcast, there is nothing wrong with dead air when someone is about to throw. Let the throws tell the story. No need for constant jabbering, especially when it is not relevant and sometimes offensive.

 

[UCF_Knight]

In terms of the competition, the reason for the tardiness is inconsequential. Both were late. One was given special treatment. The other, not so much, if at all. Stop thinking of the children.

Just funny that Catrina, without any ass-wiping from her competitors, shook off the mistake she made and fought hard enough to win her event.

You just said yourself Cat made a mistake. Hokom made no mistake and had no control over the reason she was late. I agree that the rules of competition are blind to the reason they both were late but expecting their competitors or any of us to treat the two situations with the same amount of compassion is ridiculous. Leaving your house early to give yourself time to get to your first hole on time and leaving room for mishap is part of your responsibility as a player, leaving the scene of an accident is a crime.

 

[joshmo65]

Leaving your house early to give yourself time to get to your first hole on time and leaving room for mishap is part of your responsibility as a player

So you agree that they should not have waited for Sarah... :hfive:

 

[tbird888]

You just said yourself Cat made a mistake. Hokom made no mistake and had no control over the reason she was late. I agree that the rules of competition are blind to the reason they both were late but expecting their competitors or any of us to treat the two situations with the same amount of compassion is ridiculous. Leaving your house early to give yourself time to get to your first hole on time and leaving room for mishap is part of your responsibility as a player, leaving the scene of an accident is a crime.

Sarah had plenty of control. She could've taken a different route. She could've left a minute later or earlier. I doubt Catrina made a conscious decision to go to the wrong place so she'd be late, making it an accident too.

And, of course, there you go again, making your judgment off of the situation of what caused the lateness. Was Sarah late? Yes. Should they have postponed the start of the day's round for her? No. Would they have done it for the woman starting the day in DFL? All signs point to "No". Why should Sarah get special consideration? It sucks, but the precedent was set the year before when another competitor was late for the start of her round and wasn't given the same consideration.

Try to counter where you don't try to make your point based off sympathy for Sarah's unfortunate situation. Letting your emotions cloud your judgment in competition is never a good thing.

 

[Noill]

So from this thread, what I've noted is that there is no rule that a competition has to start on time nor is there a rule that a competition should be delayed. From that, it seems that this decision is left up to the field and more importantly those that are running the competition. When extenuating circumstances compel those in a position to do something about it, people do seem to make the call based on their ability to do so and just how compelled they feel to do something about it...

In this case, it seems that they did do something about it... they started a little late and they slowed down things after they started. I see no need for a rule to change this, let's leave it up to the people involved and let the chips fall where they may. A conversation such as this one, gets heard by people who may find themselves in a similar situation. This conversation can help them make that choice one way or the other. It is appropriate to criticize their actions from both sides of the argument. In the end, it is their decision and as an outsider to this event, I think those involved made good decisions based on how they interpreted the unfortunate situation Sarah found herself in and their own feelings on that situation.

 

[corin_brown]

I actually love Crazy and his wacky commentary (creepy whisper immediately into crazy orgasmic booms) but if the players can hear him whispering and if he's going up to players discs and in the way before the players themselves....

Totally agree with this assessment. Crazy has real, professional broadcasting chops. What puts him in a select group is that he combines the playXplay role with the color role with great aplomb. Not too many TV heads can handle that. I think our sport is lucky to have someone like Crazy on the mic. I also think Terry Miller & Dixon are great too. Finding talented people to broadcast disc golf action is not one of our problems. Job done.

Disc golf broadcasting problems manifest when the broadcasting talent works exclusively from the course. There's a reason why Jim Nantz & Mike Tirico call ball golf tournaments from a fixed location in a tower two stories above the 18th green or from an ad hoc studio somewhere away from the action - they don't have to worry about bothering the players.

I also agree with those requesting the on-air talent let the broadcast breathe. But, as a viewer, I also want to know, if possible, what disc the players are using and what their possible plan for a particular shot might be. This is one aspect of watching disc golf that, I think, is superior to ball golf. In disc golf, there are many more shots when the player has to choose from a wide selection of plans. Especially in a woodsy course. Watching a player cook up a strategy and then executing that strategy is awesome. Happens way more often in disc golf than in ball golf. And we need a spotter or on air talent on the ground to set up the action for us. I think they probably do this already, but the talent should try to sneak a peak at a players bag before a round, maybe with the help of the caddy, so that the talent can have a visual memory of a player's discs to help them recongize them when that player uses them during the action.

As for PP's slagging DGP on Smashboxx, she might have an ongoing beef with them - she mentioned how her mom can never get the broadcast to work right. But in relation to Worlds, I think her main complaint was having to deal with Crazy before she could even turn in her card and compose herself for a beat or two. A valid complaint, imo.

 

[UCF_Knight]

So you agree that they should not have waited for Sarah... :hfive:

I couldn't care less, I think its cool they gave her a shot, I also would be perfectly happy if they held to the plan and went off on time. Thats what TBird is missing.

Sarah had plenty of control. She could've taken a different route. She could've left a minute later or earlier. I doubt Catrina made a conscious decision to go to the wrong place so she'd be late, making it an accident too.

And, of course, there you go again, making your judgment off of the situation of what caused the lateness. Was Sarah late? Yes. Should they have postponed the start of the day's round for her? No. Would they have done it for the woman starting the day in DFL? All signs point to "No". Why should Sarah get special consideration? It sucks, but the precedent was set the year before when another competitor was late for the start of her round and wasn't given the same consideration.

Try to counter where you don't try to make your point based off sympathy for Sarah's unfortunate situation. Letting your emotions cloud your judgment in competition is never a good thing.

Sighting ways to avoid an accident no one could know was was going to happen and not being responsible enough to check and recheck what course you are supposed to show up and play on are not even close to the same thing. Of theses two "accidents" as you call them one was directly caused by the player one was 100% not. The argument that Hokom and Cat had equal control over there respective situations is absolutely ridiculous.

I was never countering what the ruling should have been and my judgement is not clouded by my emotions. You completely ignored where I said the rules are blind to the reasons they were late. As I said above, I would have no problem with the TD starting the round on time. But, I do think it is admirable and enjoy that fact both the TD and, at a minimum, some of the players did what they could to help a competitor (who was beating all of them) that was in a bad situation she had NO CONTROL over.

I don't think Paige should have handed Sarah the win in the finals, I am happy to see they found a way to give her a chance to continue competing with no advantage on the course. Sarah getting in a accident and not playing in the rest of the tournament/taking an insurmountable number of penalty strokes would have been boring, forgettable, and yes pardon the emotion sad. What fan would choose to watch a sad and boring event over one with an interesting story line and an exciting finish?

 

[JC17393]

Totally agree with this assessment. Crazy has real, professional broadcasting chops. What puts him in a select group is that he combines the playXplay role with the color role with great aplomb. Not too many TV heads can handle that. I think our sport is lucky to have someone like Crazy on the mic. I also think Terry Miller & Dixon are great too. Finding talented people to broadcast disc golf action is not one of our problems. Job done.

Disc golf broadcasting problems manifest when the broadcasting talent works exclusively from the course. There's a reason why Jim Nantz & Mike Tirico call ball golf tournaments from a fixed location in a tower two stories above the 18th green or from an ad hoc studio somewhere away from the action - they don't have to worry about bothering the players.

What exactly are Crazy's "professional broadcasting chops"? I mean, outside of his work with DGP and Emerging Sports? I honestly don't know his background in the industry, but to listen to him, "professional broadcaster" isn't what comes to mind. He's a touch better on the Emerging Sports TV show where pretty much everything he says is scripted and edited. But extemporaneously on a live broadcast, he's not professional by any stretch. Funny, entertaining, amusing...maybe if that's your cup of tea, but any random high school football radio announcer has more broadcasting "chops" than Crazy.

And it should be pointed out that DGP has done the "broadcast tower" thing many many many times, probably more often than they have utilized the on-course pXp style. In fact, it used to be the only times they used the on-course announcer were when it was Terry Miller instead of Crazy on the mic. The biggest complaint when they did the broadcasts that way, from a viewer perspective, is that they were 100% disconnected from the action on the course. They were basically watching the same feed we were with about the same amount of information. They rarely knew the score, rarely knew even what other groups were doing.

When Jim Nantz calls a ball golf tournament from a booth away from the action, he's got a producer in his ear feeding him info, and dozens of spotters on the course to keep everyone up to date on what is going on. And that's in addition to the on-course commentators who chime in from time to time. They've literally got a couple hundred people putting that broadcast on the air while DGP seems to have maybe a half-dozen folks at best.

If players are noticing Crazy, he's doing a bad job. Period. He should be virtually invisible during play. Yes, he needs to talk into the mic but he has to do it in a way that is the least obtrusive. If that means whispering the whole time, then so be it. Frankly, aside from the bad jokes and incoherent ramblings, the biggest issue I had with Crazy all week was his volume. He'd go from whispering to shouting in a millisecond...a pain in the ass if you've got the volume up to catch the whispered stuff and he blows your eardrums out shouting about McBeth sticking a 20 footer like it was out of nowhere.

I've long been a supporter and defender of DGP, but I've always found Crazy to be the weak link. If he's bothering the players as much as Paige indicated, he's got to go.

 

[BionicRib]

Its like this....go play some buddies for 100 bucks a piece. Pick up some random guy on the course, give him a mic and have him follow you guys while commentating nonstop and see how much fun it is.

 

[corin_brown]

What exactly are Crazy's "professional broadcasting chops"? I mean, outside of his work with DGP and Emerging Sports? I honestly don't know his background in the industry, but to listen to him, "professional broadcaster" isn't what comes to mind. He's a touch better on the Emerging Sports TV show where pretty much everything he says is scripted and edited. But extemporaneously on a live broadcast, he's not professional by any stretch. Funny, entertaining, amusing...maybe if that's your cup of tea, but any random high school football radio announcer has more broadcasting "chops" than Crazy.

I don't know what precisely is on his CV either but you can tell by listening to him that he's got broadcasting chops. He expresses himself clearly & delivers the content with color. He can also vamp and is quick on his feet. He doesn't say, "um, like, ya know." He keeps it moving. I wouldn't be surprised if he's done radio before. There's no government licensing exam for being a professional broadcaster, it's a subjective thing and it's clear you think he's not good and I think he's great.

And it should be pointed out that DGP has done the "broadcast tower" thing many many many times, probably more often than they have utilized the on-course pXp style. In fact, it used to be the only times they used the on-course announcer were when it was Terry Miller instead of Crazy on the mic. The biggest complaint when they did the broadcasts that way, from a viewer perspective, is that they were 100% disconnected from the action on the course. They were basically watching the same feed we were with about the same amount of information. They rarely knew the score, rarely knew even what other groups were doing.

When Jim Nantz calls a ball golf tournament from a booth away from the action, he's got a producer in his ear feeding him info, and dozens of spotters on the course to keep everyone up to date on what is going on. And that's in addition to the on-course commentators who chime in from time to time. They've literally got a couple hundred people putting that broadcast on the air while DGP seems to have maybe a half-dozen folks at best.

Precisely why I think all of the broadcasters in disc golf are so good - their resources are so scarce.

If players are noticing Crazy, he's doing a bad job. Period. He should be virtually invisible during play. Yes, he needs to talk into the mic but he has to do it in a way that is the least obtrusive. If that means whispering the whole time, then so be it. Frankly, aside from the bad jokes and incoherent ramblings, the biggest issue I had with Crazy all week was his volume. He'd go from whispering to shouting in a millisecond...a pain in the ass if you've got the volume up to catch the whispered stuff and he blows your eardrums out shouting about McBeth sticking a 20 footer like it was out of nowhere.

Yeah, he shouldn't be messing around with the lie. I'd be curious to know how many players thought he was messing around in their space. I also know that other broadcasters have been caught encroaching on players' space and have been spoken to about it. I know this because on his show the other night, Terry said it happened to him before. So I'm inclined to chalk that up to broadcasting growing pains and the stress of painting a picture with zero help and zero money.

I've long been a supporter and defender of DGP, but I've always found Crazy to be the weak link. If he's bothering the players as much as Paige indicated, he's got to go.

There's no accounting for taste.

 

[Streets]

Being able to talk well =/= broadcasting chops

To me, broadcasting chops=broadcasting experience on some level whether he was doing local high school radio or ESPN Ocho events before being brought on to be an announcer.

To me Crazy is someone who can talk well who was given a mic for that reason. But then again, I don't really no his background.

 

[DiscFifty]

"Paige Pierce loses huge opportunity" Totally disagree with the thread title. Totally agree Crazy's time as a main commentary has got to go. Maybe bring him in once in a great while as a guest commentator (for 1-2 holes max) for a little comedy relief..maybe.

 

[BionicRib]

Seriously....rename the thread guys.