Par vs Pro Par

[Donovan]

OK so I was thinking about this while playing all these courses for the first time in Nebraska, USA. How do you decide what to list in your scorebook?

I notice that my stats are not that great and then I realized I usually play Pro Par on most of the courses. The really long courses I usually play Par. People that always play Pro Par will never have as good of stats as the ones who only play Par.

So the question is, which do you use, why do you use that one, and what criteria do you use to switch back and forth if you do that?


timg,

Do you think we could have the total stats side of the playbook show your stats as options (or tabs)for: Par, Pro Par, & Total? I wonder what good those stats are otherwise? I mean if they enter them as Par then those go int he Par totals and likewise the Pro Par. I did not mean grab data as if each round was played as both.

What do you think?

 

[timg]

Short answer.. no Btw, if you have a question for me a PM is usually better since I occasionally won't see a post in the public forum.

Re: Pro Par vs. Par, it is usually indicated on the scorecard and sometimes depends on the tee you play. It's also a hot topic among some but since some courses/scorecard make the distinction, I added it to the site.

 

[PhattD]

As far as I know your score doesn't change depending on what par you use. If you are comparing your score to course par as a way of comparing rounds from one course to another, For instance I am more impressed by a 56 at Grand Woods than a 52 at MSU, You would have to have a far more standardized system of setting par than we currently have. I basically use par as a convienience for score keeping. It's easier for me to keep track of -2 than 31 after 11 holes. It's also easier to remember 18 holes are par 54 and 24 holes are par 72 than to worry about what some random course designer thought on this particular course 12 years ago when Cyclones were the longest disc out there.

 

[Donovan]

As far as I know your score doesn't change depending on what par you use. If you are comparing your score to course par as a way of comparing rounds from one course to another, For instance I am more impressed by a 56 at Grand Woods than a 52 at MSU, You would have to have a far more standardized system of setting par than we currently have. I basically use par as a convienience for score keeping. It's easier for me to keep track of -2 than 31 after 11 holes. It's also easier to remember 18 holes are par 54 and 24 holes are par 72 than to worry about what some random course designer thought on this particular course 12 years ago when Cyclones were the longest disc out there.

PhattD, I am not refering to the score, but the eagles, birdies, pars,...you get the idea.

 

[ERicJ]

For statistical purposes like that I made the decision not too long ago to play everything as a par 3, unless I know the course uses carefully designed par values. A Houck course will have real pars. If I shoot a 4 out there on a "Par 5" I'm calling that a birdie not a bogie.

Take Hudson Springs for a counter-example, I've played there once. Par posted on the signs is 67! That was a good par for my brother-in-law who was playing for his second time ever, and wearing a knee brace from ACL surgery a couple months before. I shot a 55 my first time there. Was that really a -12 round? Heck no. I mean their par 5 holes are 500 footers with nothing in the way. If I played there now I'd probably "Eagle" at least one of those in most rounds.

That all being said there really isn't a standard for what DGCR par vs. pro par is... much less what par is in disc golf in general. [Cue Olorin].

ERic

 

[jedwards]

For statistical purposes like that I made the decision not too long ago to play everything as a par 3...

I do this too. Granted I do not play a lot of different courses but I find it so much easier to play everything as par 3.

 

[nosajeel99]

I do this too. Granted I do not play a lot of different courses but I find it so much easier to play everything as par 3.

Second! Or third - whatever number I am. I play all Par 3 unless I know otherwise.

 

[Aaron D'Angelo]

I use the par system that the park has set up. I know it may seem easy for some but as I am just starting out playing (like 2 1/2 months) that is how I do it. When I become better I might switch to all par 3's. However some courses I play have 1 or 2 holes that start at 669' from the red/short tees. I can't consider those par 3, I just don't have that kind of arm.

 

[PA_Disc]

I use the par system that the park has set up. I know it may seem easy for some but as I am just starting out playing (like 2 1/2 months) that is how I do it. When I become better I might switch to all par 3's. However some courses I play have 1 or 2 holes that start at 669' from the red/short tees. I can't consider those par 3, I just don't have that kind of arm.

I think its a safe bet that being 669', it could be considered a par 4.

 

[djext1]

I play, and always have played (except maybe those first few months in the beginning) "pro par". Everything in three. Here is why:

54 is the magic number. It's much easier to keep track of your "up" or "down" when everything is in three. The key is, that you don't think about it as "i'm over on this one" or "under on that one"..it's your OVERALL SCORE that matters. It's what you finish with. Because you aren't measuring or keeping track of your birdies, eagles, etc...you keeping track of your strokes. The number of strokes it takes you to finish 18 holes of ANY course, is what matters. It's what makes any course anywhere universal.

If I run into some guy at course A, and we begin talking about some other town and it's local course, course B, when the guy tells me he shoots on average a 51 at course B I know immediately how good or bad he does on that course. I know the number of strokes it takes him to finish.

Don't think of it as "when I get good enough I'll switch to pro par"..it has nothing to do with good or bad, it's just a way of making it easier to keep track of your score and compare it to others. Not too mention I think a larger number of 'serious' players play pro par over course.

 

[ERicJ]

I use the par system that the park has set up. I know it may seem easy for some but as I am just starting out playing (like 2 1/2 months) that is how I do it. When I become better I might switch to all par 3's.

That's exactly what I did. And that's how I got the only Eagle of my career (so far). It was my first round at Vista Del Camino Park, after I'd been playing 2 1/2 months:

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/score...vcrse=920&fd=2008-02-01&sd=2008-02-14&mid=519

And I '2'ed hole number one which is listed as a Rec par of 4. I was definitely a "Rec" player at the time. Playing that hole now it would definitely be a par '3' for me. I'm not gonna go back there again and play it as a '4' (to pad my stats) just because I'm not in a tournament. I know that should be a par 3 for a player of my level.

ERic

 

[Innovadude]

Par? is it relevant? Playing the course blind, not for $, does it matter what you shot?
I am not usually keeping score as I go. I know whether the throws I made were good or not that day. I don't feel a need to compare to what some course designer dreamt up as a Par for their course.
Just use numbers, there's no confusion that way.

 

[ZMan44]

Agreed...I am not a pro. Not even close. But I always use the Par 3 for everything unless I go to a long, long course where par is clearly defined per hole. For me, it also makes keeping up with my score much easier.

 

[PA_Disc]

Par? is it relevant? Playing the course blind, not for $, does it matter what you shot?
I am not usually keeping score as I go. I know whether the throws I made were good or not that day. I don't feel a need to compare to what some course designer dreamt up as a Par for their course.
Just use numbers, there's no confusion that way.

I guess you could argue the same thing for ball golf... In reality the only reason to have Par is to set a standard for Tourneys.

 

[ptsawyer]

I agree with the "pro par" I guess. The problem with using course par, is that there is no consistency from course to course on what a par 3, 4, or 5 is. When I am keeping score in my head, I use 3 as "par" for every hole, and add my over/under to 54 to get my total. That is what I track in my spreadsheet along with my friends scores is the total strokes. That is universal.

The key is not to get too caught up in a 4 or a 5 being a "bad" hole. There is a 600 ft+ hole at a local course here in Dayton, and I consider a 4 there a success. Its really all just BS anyways, the only thing that makes one round better than another is your total strokes.

 

[nosajeel99]

The par discussions won't stop, I don't think. there is a whole other thread dedicated to it. I agree that the number of strokes is really what counts, not your par for the numerous reasons listed above.

But, par (if it could be easily established) would help in determining how good someone is on a course I have never played. So if someone shoots a 58 on a course I have never played, is that good or bad? If everything is 250',then it is probably not a great score, but if all of the holes are 400' or longer, then that is a good score. The par (2 under par, or 3 over par types of language) help to inform on how good someone is if you have not played the course (which in my case is about 2,800 courses).

Even using 54 strokes as par leaves it open to interpretation of if that is "true" par or not.

 

[timg]

How do ball golf courses determine par? Distance alone?

 

[PA_Disc]

How do ball golf courses determine par? Distance alone?

Yes and no. Distance is the #1 overriding factor, but it really is a combination of things. 1. Based on a "scratch golfer" round/"Par golfer". 2. Course obstacles, trees, fairway width, elevation... I think that the only ones allowed to determine actual par is a "registered" golf rater-whatever.

Let me see if I can find the distances.

 

[PA_Disc]

The current guidelines are these for men:

Par 3 - Up to 250 yards
Par 4 - 251 to 470 yards
Par 5 - 471 yards to 690 yards
Par 6 - 691 yards or more

And for women:

Par 3 - Up to 210 yards
Par 4 - 211 to 400 yards
Par 5 - 401 to 575 yards
Par 6 - 575 yards or more


**I didn't even know they had PAR 6???


Here is better info on how they determine par.

It's important to note that the current USGA guidelines are not, in fact, based on actual yards, but on a hole's "effective playing length." Effective playing length is one of the factors taken into account when a course is given its USGA Course Rating and USGA Slope Rating.

Effective playing length, and why it's used in these guidelines, is pretty easy to understand. Say a hole's actual yardage is 508 yards. That hole, by its actual yards, might be a par-5. But what if the hole plays downhill all the way? It's effective playing length - how long the hole actually plays like - might be closer to 450 yards. Therefore, a hole whose actual length might make some think it should be par-5 really only plays like a par-4. According to current guidelines, that hole would be a par-4 (the guidelines are not hard and fast rules, by the way, but simply ... well, guidelines).

 

[nosajeel99]

Yeah, I would think that dog-legs and such would make the par change. A shot to get around the corner if you will...

And in ball golf, just the same as in disc golf, there will be tough par 3s and easy par 4s. I don't think that is a bad thing.