PDGA Asks Golfers to not play courses...

[Emoney]

I'm in the high risk group. My wife just had surgery. You can be damned sure I don't want to get this thing but I'm not living my life in fear either.

Sounds like something you would say before you decide to walk down a dark alley, Not when there is a brand new virus thats highly contagious and killing people.

Idk. Priorities i guess. I will suspend disc golf for when the air clears. I want to be able to play in my elder years

 

[ru4por]

If you know someone with a private course that has very limited traffic, sure go play solo (with permission obviously). Public facilities with hard surfaces are obvious transmission sites, golf baskets included. Playgrounds have been getting cordoned off with caution tape, and something as easily removed as a basket will be if people don't stop using them. That's why a place like NYC can't slow the spread very well, it's impossible to navigate that city without touching surfaces. But guess what, you can still play golf using trees/objects as targets in appropriately remote areas.

I have been pretty vocal about common sense and intelligent compliance, but this post has a lot of supposition in it. Though, we have an idea of how long the virus lasts on stainless steel and plastic, I don't think anyone can say how well the virus hangs onto chains in 35-45 degree weather, when agitated every 5-10 minutes. Add the minimum of three mechanisms of transfer. I would advocate over kill in the name of caution, but I am not confident of the risk.

New York is in trouble for a multitude of reasons, one of the least probably being surface transmission.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Add the minimum of three mechanisms of transfer.

Is this specific sentence referring to this sequence of events?

Mechanism 1: Player A's disc
Mechanism 2: basket
Mechanism 3: Player B's disc

Hence the virus would need to be passed on through all three mechanisms, before having an opportunity to find a human host.

At least, that's how I interpreted it... just curious.

 

[gogo]

You can always bring your own basket. If the parks department or club pulls the baskets, the people I play with each have our own travel baskets. We could set them up next to where the collar is and putt to our own baskets. No cross contamination.

 

[Jay Dub]

I doubt a park would pull baskets then allow you to put your own baskets in their place.

 

[ru4por]

Is this specific sentence referring to this sequence of events?

Mechanism 1: Player A's disc
Mechanism 2: basket
Mechanism 3: Player B's disc

Hence the virus would need to be passed on through all three mechanisms, before having an opportunity to find a human host.

At least, that's how I interpreted it... just curious.

Mechanism 1: Player A (sneeze/cough) to chains
Mechanism 2: Direct contact to Player B's hand from chains
Mechanism 3: Player B hands to face/nose/eyes

Or more likely at least four

Mechanism 1: Mouth (sneeze/cough) to chains
Mechanism 2: Chain to Player B disc
Mechanism 3: Player B disc to Player B hand
Mechanism 4: Player B hand to Player B mouth/nose/eyes

But here is the most likely scenario. I am assuming someone should not sneeze/cough right onto the chains.

Mechanism 1: Player A hands to Player A disc
Mechanism 2: Player A disc to chains
Mechanism 3: Chains to Player B disc
Mechanism 4: Player B disc to Player B hand
Mechanism 5: Player B hand to Player B mouth/nose/eyes

The way I see it, that leaves the following questions/variables

-How many players are actually infected
-What percentage of time does the virus, of the above population, transfer to each of the surfaces
-How does cold/wind/chain agitation impact the transfer percentage

I am not advocating playing or not, just thinking out loud.

 

[John Rock]

You can always bring your own basket. If the parks department or club pulls the baskets, the people I play with each have our own travel baskets. We could set them up next to where the collar is and putt to our own baskets. No cross contamination.

If the club/city pulls the baskets doesn't that make you think that they don't want people using that area? Seems like a lot of people forget that disc golf is a privilege, not a right. That course was likely installed by the sweat and hard work of volunteers with hard-earned permission from the city, and if a few stubborn players can't abide by the wishes of the club/city (who is likely acting on orders from higher-ups), that course could be on the chopping block.

Reign in your desire to play for a few days/weeks, you'll survive. Better yet, take your portables to a new area and see how a course will work. Be that volunteer (They!) that gets a new course installed when this crisis has subsided.

 

[Kegelexercise]

I'm not the slightest bit interested in participating in the "play vs don't play" ethics debate, but this bit made me laugh:

"I know that disc golf will emerge from this better and stronger than ever."

No it won't. Not if it's fan base isn't playing for any appreciable amount of time.

 

[Casey 1988]

I'm not the slightest bit interested in participating in the "play vs don't play" ethics debate, but this bit made me laugh:



No it won't. Not if it's fan base isn't playing for any appreciable amount of time.

It won't to the guys post be stronger, but it will return nearly as strong as before, with a few differences like less of the super casual chucker (who dose not even use the common safety of throwing at others, or they do throw at others who are in front of them trying to hit them) not playing thank you, and possibly the really old people some who have been playing since the 1980's when the game first took off. I think the people who play as casual chukers that want to hit people would play Guts with the fastest disc golf disc 175 grams the could find or a 180 gram diameter fairway at 180 gramstrying to kill the opponent when the disc hits them in the neck or head.

 

[DavidSauls]

The way I see it, that leaves the following questions/variables

-How many players are actually infected
-What percentage of time does the virus, of the above population, transfer to each of the surfaces
-How does cold/wind/chain agitation impact the transfer percentage

I am not advocating playing or not, just thinking out loud.

Well done. I'd think the risk of spread through the chains is miniscule.

And that solo players, or small groups practicing social distancing, are of little risk as well.

There are other, better reasons for shutting down disc golf in public parks. It's sort of an attractive nuisance, drawing the people who don't take precautions into small groups, to share their viruses and disperse afterwards. Another consideration is that the park workers may be furloughed---no one to cut the grass, empty the trash, or any of the other duties that the P&R folks must do from time to time.

 

[Jolt]

But here is the most likely scenario. I am assuming someone should not sneeze/cough right onto the chains.

Mechanism 1: Player A hands to Player A disc
Mechanism 2: Player A disc to chains
Mechanism 3: Chains to Player B disc
Mechanism 4: Player B disc to Player B hand
Mechanism 5: Player B hand to Player B mouth/nose/eyes

The way I see it, that leaves the following questions/variables

-How many players are actually infected
-What percentage of time does the virus, of the above population, transfer to each of the surfaces
-How does cold/wind/chain agitation impact the transfer percentage

I am not advocating playing or not, just thinking out loud.

That scenario seems like a very "low risk" one. . But just to get to/from the course ads SO many more risk variables.

It´s just hard to stay away from people and things other peoples has touched. . even if you try really hard

 

[BogeyNoMore]

That scenario seems like a very "low risk" one. . But just to get to/from the course ads SO many more risk variables.

It´s just hard to stay away from people and things other peoples has touched. . even if you try really hard

^ Agreed. That's precisely why I said this in another thread:

It is incumbent on all of us (those who play, as well as those who don't) to continuously make rational decisions and active efforts to reduce our exposure, as well as the exposure of others should one already be an asymptomatic carrier. One good decision isn't enough. We need everyone to be vigilant, all the time to flatten the curve

It takes more than one active effort. We need to be aware throughout the day to avoid touching things others touch. We need to think ahead to see if there are ways to avoid the contact altogether, or at least minimize it, and wash hands as soon as you can.

Now's a perfect time to pay with debit/credit cards and stay away from cash. In my mind, bills are petri dishes with Presidential portraits. Few things are handled by as many people as dollar bills.

And wash/disenfect ASAP after touching the display/keypad on the card reader... or wear gloves.

 

[Kegelexercise]

It won't to the guys post be stronger, but it will return nearly as strong as before, with a few differences like less of the super casual chucker (who dose not even use the common safety of throwing at others, or they do throw at others who are in front of them trying to hit them) not playing thank you, and possibly the really old people some who have been playing since the 1980's when the game first took off. I think the people who play as casual chukers that want to hit people would play Guts with the fastest disc golf disc 175 grams the could find or a 180 gram diameter fairway at 180 gramstrying to kill the opponent when the disc hits them in the neck or head.

I mean...this breed of chucker who intentionally throws at other players is absolutely an awful person to have on the course, and if this COVID madness forces him off for good, all the better, but...and I'm only one person, but...I've been playing disc golf since I was in grade school, and in over two decades of playing, I honestly cannot recall a single instance of any other player intentionally throwing discs at other players. Careless rubes who aren't paying attention, sure, but never someone actually trying for head shots.

 

[Dcinmd]

CYA move. It allows them to walk away without having to do anything else but wash their hands of disc golf for the time being. Weak. I'll continue playing solo rounds. I'll also think long and hard before I send my $50 in next year.

Why is protecting organization from liability a bad thing? I view it as a positive.

 

[Dave242]

I haven't read this entire thread, so hopefully I'm not repeating something.....but I want to offer 3 counterpoints that support DG as a social-distancing-complaint activity:

CV is transmitted the most effectively via droplets from sneezing and coughing. If 6' spacing is maintained and people do not use public benches, then only if an infected person coughs/sneezes directly into the basket is there any chance of transmitting. And that chance is absolutely minuscule, especially when considering the fluid will evaporate pretty quickly. And due to the rounded surfaces of all the basket components there is very little surface area of basket touching your disc.

Sneezing and coughing people are less likely to feel motivated to get out and play.

Those who chose to ignore social distancing will chose to ignore social distancing. At least DG forces them apart from each other more so than almost anything else they could be doing as a group.

 

[Nick Pacific]

Mechanism 1: Player A (sneeze/cough) to chains
Mechanism 2: Direct contact to Player B's hand from chains
Mechanism 3: Player B hands to face/nose/eyes

Or more likely at least four

Mechanism 1: Mouth (sneeze/cough) to chains
Mechanism 2: Chain to Player B disc
Mechanism 3: Player B disc to Player B hand
Mechanism 4: Player B hand to Player B mouth/nose/eyes

But here is the most likely scenario. I am assuming someone should not sneeze/cough right onto the chains.

Mechanism 1: Player A hands to Player A disc
Mechanism 2: Player A disc to chains
Mechanism 3: Chains to Player B disc
Mechanism 4: Player B disc to Player B hand
Mechanism 5: Player B hand to Player B mouth/nose/eyes

The way I see it, that leaves the following questions/variables

-How many players are actually infected
-What percentage of time does the virus, of the above population, transfer to each of the surfaces
-How does cold/wind/chain agitation impact the transfer percentage

I am not advocating playing or not, just thinking out loud.

So the latest information out of the plague ship Diamond Princess is showing the virus is detectable on some surfaces for 17 days :gross:

https://nypost.com/2020/03/24/coronavirus-found-on-diamond-princess-surfaces-17-days-later/

 

[Jay Dub]

I found this and imo is a very good source for information on this virus.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/coronavirus-resource-center#COVID

 

[Nick Pacific]

CV is transmitted the most effectively via droplets from sneezing and coughing. If 6' spacing is maintained and people do not use public benches, then only if an infected person coughs/sneezes directly into the basket is there any chance of transmitting. And that chance is absolutely minuscule, especially when considering the fluid will evaporate pretty quickly. And due to the rounded surfaces of all the basket components there is very little surface area of basket touching your disc.

You can do what you want, but this virus LOVES metal surfaces, this is thought to be one of the main points of spread in NYC, all of the metal surfaces in the public transportation systems. People are licking their fingers, blowing in their hands, rubbing their noses, coughing and sneezing into their hands, and reaching into the baskets with their discs which, if they are infected, is guaranteed to be covered in the virus. Remember there are a lot of asymptomatic people, often younger, running around super spreading the virus.

Complicating the matter further is that the virus survives in the air for 3 hours, and on metal surfaces for up to 17 days. If the course is busy, every tee pad, main walking trail and area around the basket could be saturated in viral particles floating in the air looking for a host to innoculate.

There is a reason why this thing spreads so easily. If it was only people sneezing and coughing into someone's face, we wouldn't have the growing numbers we have. It's growing in part because the virus survives a long time in the air (3 hours!) and on surfaces (17 days!). The people on the cruise ship were a good learning experiment - most were really separated from each other, and a lot of their contact was open air on the boat deck - yet the virus continued to spread.

 

[Jay Dub]

However, the report stressed that the research "cannot be used to determine whether transmission occurred from contaminated surfaces" and whether the traces were active enough to get anyone sick.

People are only using the data that backs their side of the debate, there's much more to that 17 day thing than Nick posted.

All those tests on surfaces are inside, no test that I have heard of has been done on outside surfaces. Fluid evaporates, I would think that makes a difference.

 

[ranger]

safe to say we can't make many solid conclusions about this virus.


This could be a CYA but maybe they actually want to keep people safe. Who knows...