Pdga has finally announced new rules on transgender competition

[dmoore1998]

Based on the PDGA's ruling and the DGPT's subsequent adoption of their high-end standards, they basically have prohibited Natalie Ryan from ever playing at that level again in FPO (under these new requirements).

Did you look up what Tanner Stage 2 is?

Beyond that, for A-Tier or lower, the old rule was X amount of testosterone for 1 year.

Now it's Y amount of testosterone for 2 years.

So no, under these new requirements, Natalie can't play in an A Tier (or B or C) until she shows Y amount of testosterone continuously for 2 years.

It doesn't say she has to start 2 years beginning now...it says she has to be at the correct levels for 2 years. She could have been under that level for the past 2 years and have tests done during that time.

Not knowing if she's eligible to play now is not the same as "they're making her wait 2 years to play". She might be eligible immediately depending on her medical history.

 

[DanJon]

It doesn't say she has to start 2 years beginning now...it says she has to be at the correct levels for 2 years. She could have been under that level for the past 2 years and have tests done during that time.

Not knowing if she's eligible to play now is not the same as "they're making her wait 2 years to play". She might be eligible immediately depending on her medical history.

Hormone therapy is apparently expensive.

Big assumption to think that when the new requirement is 5x less than the old (and for twice the time period) that a person would already be there.

You could be right, but I would also throw an assumption out there that you are not.

 

[Shallows]

Is the gender listed on the PDGA database, going to be enough for sating the fear of same rando 866 rated AM3, reporting the FA2 player, identifying as male, having undergone no transition. It is likely that her looks alone, will strike terror into the hearts of the intolerant. You might say no, won't happen, but I think this board alone, has shown it likely.

How did you deal with these types of conflicts under the 10 n/ml restriction?

 

[joshmo65]

Why do trans women have to provide their testosterone levels to play gender protected divisions, but age protected players don't have to provide their birth certificates?

 

[ru4por]

Why do trans women have to provide their testosterone levels to play gender protected divisions, but age protected players don't have to provide their birth certificates?

Because old people don't usually scare people. We might annoy them, but they rarely hold us with contempt and vitriol.

 

[ru4por]

How did you deal with these types of conflicts under the 10 n/ml restriction?

Within the guidelines and procedures set by the PDGA. The problem is the game day complaint.

 

[Broken Shoulder]

Because old people don't usually scare people. We might annoy them, but they rarely hold us with contempt and vitriol.

Ah, let me introduce you to my Grandfather-in-law.....

 

[Shallows]

Within the guidelines and procedures set by the PDGA. The problem is the game day complaint.

Do you anticipate you'll have more game day complaints to deal with due to having a set of players who were previously between 10-2 nmol/L who will now be under suspicion?

 

[Shallows]

Why do trans women have to provide their testosterone levels to play gender protected divisions, but age protected players don't have to provide their birth certificates?

One's eligibility in protected divisions is dictated by how someone registered in the PDGA database. If someone wanted to change their birth year presumably they'd need to provide evidence. I'm not aware of people changing their birthday.

 

[ru4por]

Do you anticipate you'll have more game day complaints to deal with due to having a set of players who were previously between 10-2 nmol/L who will now be under suspicion?

No. I do anticipate an uptick in complaints issued against, non traditional looking, females. I believe this sort of policy encourages some (albeit very few) to hold those who are not like them in contempt. Short hair, loose baggy clothing....now are ok to question. Anonymously.....of course. "Hey, did you guys check that one girl in FA2? Looks like a guy to me. You are gonna need to make sure.....I mean, in the name of fairness, and all."

 

[Broken Shoulder]

Except they don't, which is maybe MORE weird? Amateurs, all fine. Pro...everything is still fine except these 4 events they've picked out.

The requirements are different.

 

[dmoore1998]

The requirements are different.

What requirements are different between FA1 & FPO?

 

[Arisugawa]

No. I do anticipate an uptick in complaints issued against, non traditional looking, females. I believe this sort of policy encourages some (albeit very few) to hold those who are not like them in contempt. Short hair, loose baggy clothing....now are ok to question. Anonymously.....of course. "Hey, did you guys check that one girl in FA2? Looks like a guy to me. You are gonna need to make sure.....I mean, in the name of fairness, and all."

This is already happening in other sports where transgender women are banned or restricted. Swimming, for example. Cis women who don't conform to typical standards of beauty and body size are going to very quickly find themselves suspect, especially if they are like Ella Hansen and have the potential to dominate their competition.

 

[Shallows]

This is already happening in other sports where transgender women are banned or restricted. Swimming, for example. Cis women who don't conform to typical standards of beauty and body size are going to very quickly find themselves suspect, especially if they are like Ella Hansen and have the potential to dominate their competition.

TBF accusations that players who are eligible to compete should be ineligible to compete are even more prominent in the mixed divisions.

 

[davetherocketguy]

It is now the TD's job to pull aside the accused player and have difficult discussion with her, because has cropped hair? I find that uncomfortable and inappropriate, as another human. I am initially resentful for the PDGA putting me, or any TD, in that position.

Eff that. I've said this in another thread but that is some serious BS. All a TD should have to do is look at the players page on the PDGA web site to see if it says "M" or "F." Says M then ya gotta play mixed. Says F then play in the F divisions if desired. That's it. Period. And tell any complainers at the tourney to call the PDGA. If a TD can't do that then WTF are we paying the PDGA all this money for anyways? FFS

One of many reasons I am not running PDGA events anymore.

 

[Shallows]

Eff that. I've said this in another thread but that is some serious BS. All a TD should have to do is look at the players page on the PDGA web site to see if it says "M" or "F." Says M then ya gotta play mixed. Says F then play in the F divisions if desired. That's it. Period. And tell any complainers at the tourney to call the PDGA. If a TD can't do that then WTF are we paying the PDGA all this money for anyways? FFS

One of many reasons I am not running PDGA events anymore.

That's exactly what Ru4por and I do.

 

[Skamanda]

As I read it, Natalie can play in two year's time under this new ruling (if she's keeps her testosterone levels up to date) at A Tiers or lower

I'm skipping a whole crap ton of this thread because I've got to leave for putting league in like -8 minutes, but I wanted to comment on this particular sentence.

At this point the PDGA has stated that they believe we have an unfair advantage. It doesn't matter at which level, the precedent has been set.

If we show up to an A tier, hell or a C tier, or even a local unsanctioned event, that declaration has been made. We will be resented, shunned, and treated as pariahs if we attempt to play FA/FPO. This is 100% a given at this point. I'm even having to have discussions with the wonderful ladies league I played in last weekend. That's the only round I've ever been able to play in the women's division - and it will probably be the last. Neither the league admins, nor I, want them to lose all of their regular players because they feel that I have an unfair advantage, whether I win or not (for the record, I lost by a stroke on Sunday).

So yeah, we're allowed to play, if we want to deal with the jeers, harassment, anger, and resentment that will be guaranteed to be leveled at us.

 

[Broken Shoulder]

What requirements are different between FA1 & FPO?

Are these the same?

For PDGA Amateur Majors, Pro Master Majors and all other PDGA events sanctioned at A-Tier level and below the requirements regarding a player's level of testosterone have been lowered from under 10 nmol/L for one year to under 2 nmol/L for two years.
Players are only eligible to compete in the gender-based FPO division at PDGA Pro Majors (Champions Cup, USWDGC, European Open, and Pro Worlds) if they began medical transition during Tanner Stage 2 or before age 12, whichever is later. The player must also continuously maintain a total testosterone level in serum below 2.0 nmol/L.

Edit: I see your point now. Fpo and fa1.
I was keying on the Majors distinction.
Which, is still stupid.

 

[Surge5]

Step on a Lego, PDGA.

I need to use this retort more often.

 

[TimSyl]

I suppose many on here would think of me as a transphobic hater. I was considering not renewing my PDGA for next year. Following this announcement I renewed. And, I'm NOT phobic or a hater, it is simply the correct decision.