PDGA membership extension

[Plastic Thunder]

So here is the Mission Statement of the PDGA as of June 2020:

Mission Statement:
To develop disc golf into a globally-recognized competitive sport and recreational activity through:

Player participation
Tournament development
Spectator participation
Course development
Rules and competitive standards
Media and sponsor relations
Public education and outreach

To sustain the growth of the organization, membership, and disc golf by means of:

Financial stewardship
Asset and resource management
Membership support


I don't see anywhere in the statement that members would be guaranteed personal happiness.....................................

You're going to have to work that out that on you own. Now, think for a moment, last time you played, you might've been on a course where the PDGA had a hand in the development. I bet you were happy as you threw your first disc, before you stunk it up with crappy play. Then you were mad. That's not the fault of the PDGA or its mission. That's on you.

 

[ChrisWoj]

PROs pay a $25 premium NOT to get "margin-ed" and to get minimum added cash in B-tiers and above. The PRO fields get at least 85% of the PRO Fields' "Net Entries" back. Individual results may vary based on one's performance within a particular PRO field.

TDs/clubs are not profiting/fundraising from PRO field entries and many times the added cash is funded by the AM side margin.

For a small percentage of open players, sure. If I had chosen to reclassify as an amateur a couple of years ago, which I was well within the performance range to do, I would be far better off in terms of what I could earn re-selling my plastic or vouchers from Advanced division earnings than I am making in cash from Open division earnings. A small portion of open players benefit from the system.

 

[Improbably]

For a small percentage of open players, sure. If I had chosen to reclassify as an amateur a couple of years ago, which I was well within the performance range to do, I would be far better off in terms of what I could earn re-selling my plastic or vouchers from Advanced division earnings than I am making in cash from Open division earnings. A small portion of open players benefit from the system.

Even without reclassification a PRO may play in an AM division their rating qualifies them for. Just still on the hook for the extra $25 until the reclassification.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Even without reclassification a PRO may play in an AM division their rating qualifies them for. Just still on the hook for the extra $25 until the reclassification.

Yes, the fact that I get nothing for that extra $25 was the point of my initial post.

 

[paul2432]

That's literally the ONLY value for a lot of people. After all the "growth" this year I'm definitely in favor of going back to niche status...

So are you're basically saying the PDGA should stay stagnant or even offer less? Clarification would help on this one

 

[autocrosscrx]

I'm not a tournament player at this point and I'll be rec or novice when I do get to that point, but I do tend to look at results of local tournaments. Eyeballing it, last cash seems to average about 975-980 golf. Sometimes, 965 might get you there, sometimes it might take 990+. The problem with that is if you are a 980 rated player, you are going to hurt a lot of feelings and catch a lot of flack if you play advanced. So people get stuck.

However, that isn't really a unique thing to disc golf. I used to bowl competitively. People would always talk about "tweeners", who are too good to be competitive in a handicap league/competition, but not good enough to be competitive in scratch. So you get these people that bust their butt to get to a 200-210 average, then quit the sport because they no longer have a place to compete.

 

[HyooMac]

Thanks to a lot of the input on this thread, I've changed my mind. I'll be renewing my PDGA membership this year.

 

[Dingus]

Not all. Some of us are members.

If I weren't a member how would I own this?

 

[Alobar]

For a small percentage of open players, sure. If I had chosen to reclassify as an amateur a couple of years ago, which I was well within the performance range to do, I would be far better off in terms of what I could earn re-selling my plastic or vouchers from Advanced division earnings than I am making in cash from Open division earnings. A small portion of open players benefit from the system.

So why are you playing Open? What made you "go pro"? Were you tired of plastic payouts? Of having to play with annoying disc golf stereotypes? Was it for the competition? If so, then that is what you are paying for...

Your arguments are anecdotal and based on YOUR personal experience and hold no more validity than the OP's...

 

[Hampstead]

The extra $25 is well worth it since it allows me to say that I am a card carrying professional athlete.

 

[Three Putt]

Ams are treated way better by the PDGA than the current red-headed stepchildren of disc golf- local pros. Some would even say that Ams in this game are spoiled to a ridiculous extent in comparison to pretty much every other sport on earth.

Don't you think this is our own fault, though?

When I got into organized disc golf I had already been running other recreation programs for six years, and the payout requirements for disc golf were shocking. Like jaw-drop "WTF?" shocking. There was no activity that I was aware of that required anywhere close to as much of the pay in to go to the pay out. It was clear to me that disc golf had no concept of overhead; there wasn't any money going to pay TD's, pay staff, pay for course maintenance or course improvements...the whole thing was carried by volunteers who were taking care of expenses out of their own pocket.

There was this idea at the time that we HAD to over-reward people to make the activity attractive because we were desperate for players. You took the financial risk of "you might be out $35 by the end of the day" off the players by giving them tournament discs or T-shirts or whatever so that they would walk away with something. When you take the financial risk of loss away from the player, that loss has to get picked up by somebody.

There is also this very insular notion of disc golf. Disc golfers run disc golf events for disc golfers; no one else is allowed into our little circle. Part of the reason that works is no one wants in; the payouts are so ridiculous that no one looking to profit will bother to do it. So disc golfers (who want to win big payouts) put together events they think disc golfers will like (with big payouts.) After you are in the bubble for a little while, it starts to seem normal.

It's not normal, though.

So with the idea that it was to "grow the sport" you could kinda sorta justify the huge payouts in 1993, but no one ever has had the guts to go "You know, we have a lot of members now and enough is enough." Once it was established, no one has ever undertaken a process to incrementally chip away at the payout requirements until they are reasonable. We just keep on with this huge overcompensation even though tournaments are selling out in hours and you seemingly can't have enough events to meet demand.

We have this crazy system, but when you spend enough time doing it it stops seeming crazy. People on the inside stop recognizing that it's crazy, so no one does anything about the fact that we have a crazy system.

It's crazy, though. Like jaw-drop "WTF?" crazy.

 

[Hampstead]

Seem to recall an outsider with dollar signs in his eyes looking to disc golf as a way to make an easy $10K.

 

[ru4por]

Seem to recall an outsider with dollar signs in his eyes looking to disc golf as a way to make an easy $10K.

It is easy. Hustle up 15K in sponsorship dollars.

 

[DavidSauls]

@ThreePutt

All true. There's a 3rd leg to the stool: manufacturers. At least around here, in the early days TDs were getting discs at wholesale and making considerable margin, to cover fixed expenses, course improvements, etc. It made for a sweet deal: Players got their entry back in the form of merchandise, TDs got the same money they'd have received from low-entry, no-payout events, and manufacturers moved merchandise and got players addicted to lots of plastic. Around here, a quarter-century ago, it was one of the few ways to actually obtain discs.

 

[Three Putt]

@ThreePutt

All true. There's a 3rd leg to the stool: manufacturers. At least around here, in the early days TDs were getting discs at wholesale and making considerable margin, to cover fixed expenses, course improvements, etc. It made for a sweet deal: Players got their entry back in the form of merchandise, TDs got the same money they'd have received from low-entry, no-payout events, and manufacturers moved merchandise and got players addicted to lots of plastic. Around here, a quarter-century ago, it was one of the few ways to actually obtain discs.

True, but...I mean I was one of those guys in the 90's, and it was $2/disc. :| I got stuff for $5 (OK, it was $4.85) and I unloaded it for $7. Custom stamped stuff had different numbers and the margin was a little better, but it was still sub-$3. Once Pro plastic showed up the discs cost $7 but the retail was $10 so you made an extra buck. Back then we were getting 45-50 players and 15 of them would be Open so 30-35 Am's...yeah, we didn't move anywhere near enough plastic for it to be a big money generator.

Later on the margins got better, there were more players and the economic impact of the disc shuffle got bigger. Back in the day I hustled plastic because I liked plastic; there wasn't very much money in it.

 

[Steve West]

...Around here, a quarter-century ago, it was one of the few ways to actually obtain discs.

Which means it was one of the few ways to actually sell discs. Hence, the push to force TDs to sell enough - oops, I mean provide large enough player packs - or not be allowed run a sanctioned tournament. The idea that TDs should ONLY make money through disc sales - oops, I mean the markup on player packs - is another way of making sure the manufacturers got the maximum cut possible.

Which was fine. The game was developed to sell discs, after all.

However, these days with plenty of demand, on-line sales, selecting specific discs by weight and color, and overnight delivery, I think the old model is hurting disc sales. Tournament players buy more discs per capita (I'm referring to direct sales, not anything picked up at a tournament). More tournaments would mean more new competitors and more sales, but there aren't enough tournaments to go around. That is limiting growth.

The big money is in growth, not in the marginal increase in sales resulting from squeezing the TDs.

Let TDs make as much as they want off fees, and pay out any amounts of cash or plastic to anyone. (As long as they disclose it up front.)

 

[ChrisWoj]

So why are you playing Open? What made you "go pro"? Were you tired of plastic payouts? Of having to play with annoying disc golf stereotypes? Was it for the competition? If so, then that is what you are paying for...

It is COMPLETELY because I don't feel like catching all of the **** I'm currently watching a friend of mine catch on a week by week basis. Guy started playing Open and throwing 1000 rated rounds in 2007. By 2010 stepped away to start a family. He returned to playing every day this year. And he doesn't like golfing with Open guys so he's playing Advanced all the time, despite coming right back as a 970 and rising golfer (since September 2 1030s and 5 990+ rounds total). And all he's getting is complaining.

Your arguments are anecdotal and based on YOUR personal experience and hold no more validity than the OP's...

Well I'm waiting on someone to tell me... what am I getting for my extra $25? So far - the only argument has been that I simply get a division, period. Which... seems to be about what the amateur divisions get. Why should I pay an extra $25? Other than "just because"? And from my "anecdotal" experience - that isn't even a guarantee. Most sanctioned events run by the TDs out of my city are Am only A Tiers, though I will admit there are plenty of out of town events I can play 45+ minutes away which isn't bad. The point is - the PDGA taking an extra $25 from me doesn't even guarantee the TDs will bother offering my division.

 

[txmxer]

I'm confused.

If you register as an AM, you are free to play open division if it is available? Can you win cash?

If you register as a pro you can play advanced based on certain criteria?

If a person isn't playing a lot of pro events why wouldn't they register as an AM and save $25 plus have more flexibility? I get the "sand bagger" stuff, but thems the rules right?

 

[biscoe]

Don't you think this is our own fault, though?

Sure. I remember talking to Rothstein back in the 90's about running events- his take was they were like throwing parties for the players and we all wanted to throw the best party. I bought in hook, line and sinker. I had never been involved in any other sports outside of a scholastic setting so had no idea that it wasn't how all sports worked. For a number of years I considered an event financially successful as long as it cost me less than $200 to run.

So with the idea that it was to "grow the sport" you could kinda sorta justify the huge payouts in 1993, but no one ever has had the guts to go "You know, we have a lot of members now and enough is enough." Once it was established, no one has ever undertaken a process to incrementally chip away at the payout requirements until they are reasonable. We just keep on with this huge overcompensation even though tournaments are selling out in hours and you seemingly can't have enough events to meet demand.

We have this crazy system, but when you spend enough time doing it it stops seeming crazy. People on the inside stop recognizing that it's crazy, so no one does anything about the fact that we have a crazy system.

It's crazy, though. Like jaw-drop "WTF?" crazy.

I am trying my best. Every month I run a C tier that is $15 for Ams- they get nothing tangible out of it- greens fees at the course, trophy for the winner, a chance at a little something at year's end. I would guess I averaged about 80 players last year. These events are all on weekdays.

The PDGA's insistence on linking the perceived quality of an event (Tier) to the relative amount of trinkets passed out to the players is an enormous roadblock at this point to any sensible construct of amateur competition.

That being said I will also run a few events in the course of the year with higher entry fees and significant player's packs. A partial "if I can't beat 'em, join 'em" I suppose.

 

[biscoe]

I'm confused.

If you register as an AM, you are free to play open division if it is available? Can you win cash?

Winning cash turns you into a Pro. You can win merchandise in lieu of cash if the TD is amenable to it and retain amateur eligibility.

If you register as a pro you can play advanced based on certain criteria?

As long as your rating is under 970 you are eligible to play in the MA1 division at virtually all events, lower rating opens up even more choices.