PDGA NT: 2021 Music City Open Sept 23-26

[Flick Maniac]

Väinö Mäkelä is going for a USDGC spot here. His travel partner Luukas Rokkanen already has one from last year.

Really interesting to see how they stack up. Väinö is clearly #1 in Finland right now. Pro Tour champion, Finnish champion, and only 4 points down to Niklas Anttila in rating. (tied #2 with Joonatan Häme).

Väinö will be on Jomez according to the man himself.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Thursday's live cards...

Albert Tamm
Harper Thompson
Alden Harris
Ricky Wysocki

Catrina Allen
Holly Finley
Sarah Gilpin
Sara Sinclair


Post pro...

Jomez...

Väinö Mäkelä
Eric Oakley
Paul McBeth
Justin Bunnell

Gatekeeper...

Luukas Rokkanen
Nikko Locastro
Will Schusterick
Kevin Jones


CCDG...

Macie Velediaz
Heather Young
Paige Pierce
Kona Panis

Ace Run...

Rebecca Cox
Valerie Mandujano
Missy Gannon
Sarah Hokom

 

[TurnedOver]

This is like saying that the PGA (Professional Golf Association) is to blame because there isn't enough gravel down in the parking lot at Augusta or Rae's Creek is flooding or the rough is an inch too high.

This event is being hosted by the Music City Disc Golf Club, Tournament Director Wil McKaskle, and Asst. Tournament Director Jay Skinner. The PDGA is just the sanctioning body and has absolutely zero to do with the course prep or conditions. Pros like Paul McBeth and Holly Finale have been around long enough and should know better. Everyone else knows exactly where to direct their constructive criticism…and aiming any venom at the PDGA is completely misdirected and foolish.

This is a National Tour event. Doesn't that mean the PDGA selected this course?

 

[ru4por]

This is like saying that the PGA (Professional Golf Association) is to blame because there isn't enough gravel down in the parking lot at Augusta or Rae's Creek is flooding or the rough is an inch too high.

This event is being hosted by the Music City Disc Golf Club, Tournament Director Wil McKaskle, and Asst. Tournament Director Jay Skinner. The PDGA is just the sanctioning body and has absolutely zero to do with the course prep or conditions. Pros like Paul McBeth and Holly Finale have been around long enough and should know better. Everyone else knows exactly where to direct their constructive criticism…and aiming any venom at the PDGA is completely misdirected and foolish.

I disagree. While I abhor anyone piling blame on what is essentially a volunteer corps, they do bear some responsibility.

But, the PDGA is the sanctioning body, making the schedule, making the decision to allow the course to be used and they certainly should have some supervisory input on course conditions as the event draws near.

I am personally tired of the wearisome whining from pro disc golfers. This is disc golf, a tiny niche sport, in which they are lucky to sniff a living. They should be playing trash bag, practice rounds, to leave the locals with a better course, than what they found. The whole prima donna routine is stale, IMO.

 

[njgrosser]

We got another half-inch of rain yesterday, along with some rain overnight and this morning. It's forecasted to end this morning and be clear/sunny the rest of the week and weekend, but mud will definitely be a factor at Cedar Hill tomorrow. It's not the best-draining course in the area and a lot of the wooded areas don't have a lot of gravel to help keep traction with the mud...

 

[njgrosser]

Also, if you want to see for yourself whether you think Cedar Hill (can't speak for the current conditions, but can speak for the layout) is NT-level, you can watch these videos from last year's MCO and see for yourself.

Front 9: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVDqUOLiLGE
Back 9: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRJdCa3C6-Y

Hole 1: Shorter than 2020, hole is located near the last gap in the trees (about 80' short of the 2020 placement)
Hole 2: Longer than 2020, hole is located further up the hill where the yellow basket is in the video (Inner Hole II's Pin).
Hole 3: Same as 2020
Hole 4: Same as 2020
Hole 5: Same as 2020
Hole 6: Shorter than 2020 based on the caddie book, but I can't think of what pin position they're using. Guess we'll wait and see.
Hole 7: Same as 2020 (best hole on the course, IMO)
Hole 8: Same as 2020
Hole 9: FPO is the same as 2020, MPO's basket is straight ahead near the edge of the woods and the parking lot instead of making that dogleg to the right to enter the downhill wooded section. (some guy threw a disc at the filming drone on this video)
Hole 10: Shorter than 2020, they are playing from the shorter alternate tee.
Hole 11: Same as 2020
Hole 12: MPO is same as 2020, FPO's basket is 100' shorter at the pin position in the middle of the fairway near the top of the hill.
Hole 13: Same as 2020
Hole 14: Same as 2020
Hole 15: Same as 2020
Hole 16: Same as 2020
Hole 17: Same as 2020 (most fun hole for noodle-arms like me, if you like downhill bombs)
Hole 18: Same as 2020 (spray and pray)

I've never been to Mill Ridge and had no involvement with the tournament, so I can't speak for that course. I've played Cedar Hill many times though, so I can answer most questions about it.

 

[biscoe]

This is like saying that the PGA (Professional Golf Association) is to blame because there isn't enough gravel down in the parking lot at Augusta or Rae's Creek is flooding or the rough is an inch too high.

This event is being hosted by the Music City Disc Golf Club, Tournament Director Wil McKaskle, and Asst. Tournament Director Jay Skinner. The PDGA is just the sanctioning body and has absolutely zero to do with the course prep or conditions. Pros like Paul McBeth and Holly Finale have been around long enough and should know better. Everyone else knows exactly where to direct their constructive criticism…and aiming any venom at the PDGA is completely misdirected and foolish.

It is much more more like complaining about the USGA over US Open conditions which happens all the time.

Hopefully the PDGA will be out of the Elite Series business ASAP. To do it "right" takes more effort than they are putting forth and someone else is already doing that work. (This is not a criticism of the people who are "boots on the ground" for the PDGA- Todd and co do good work and live up to expectations of them imo- I am certain that they did a whole lot more fixing of things in Utah this year than screwing them up.) IMO the mantle on being the "true" Pro Series was passed in 2020 when the PDGA folded on the NT and DGPT went "all in" in returning from Covid.

The fact that the players focus their ire on the organization whenever anything goes wrong at a non-DGPT event is misguided for sure but also comes with the territory. The players know exactly where the buck stops with DGPT which is Jeff Spring. Jeff is a good guy and I am guessing pretty much universally adored by the players. It is a lot easier to throw a faceless organization under the bus than your friend.

The concept that Cedar Hill may not be an Elite caliber course is not something Paul made up out of the blue. It was the first thought I had when I saw it was being used for the event as well. Being a great course for most levels of competition doesn't necessarily carry over at the top of the line. Could be it will play great and all will be fine- let's see how it plays out.

 

[_MTL_]

Absolutely my pet peeve of complainers is when they complain about things they knew were going to happen.

If Cedar Hill isn't worthy of an NT, then why are you playing the event?

If the courses at USWDGC aren't worthy of a major, then why are you playing the event?

If you choose to play the event knowing those things, that feedback is crucial. I'm not saying it's not. But no matter how valid your point is, the event isn't going to change it 3 - 4 days out. So what's the point? Wait till after the event and send event feedback in.

 

[Dingus]

Cedar Hill is the best course in Nashville. Cedar Hill would not be the best course in any major disc golf market. Nashville is not a major disc golf market.

I like that MPO will be playing at Cedar. Obviously a NT event at a 5 star natural course like Maple Hill or Idlewild is preferable, but compared to a temp layout on a ball golf course I choose Cedar Hill.

Old school courses like this work against top tier players like Paul. It removes the big distance edge, and rewards local players that have learned the local lines. So from Paul's perspective, he is showing up to an unglamorous location for less pay and the possibility of getting shown up. I understand his gripe.

 

[robdeforge]

If the courses at USWDGC aren't worthy of a major, then why are you playing the event?

off topic: especially because that event was delayed for a year... no way the quality of courses should have come as a surprise.

/off topic

super excited to see Väinö play!

 

[njgrosser]

off topic: especially because that event was delayed for a year... no way the quality of courses should have come as a surprise.

Last year's MCO for the NT was going to be three days exclusively at Mill Ridge. The four-day schedule is exclusive to 2021 and required a second course, which is where Cedar Hill comes in.

 

[Dcinmd]

Last year's MCO for the NT was going to be three days exclusively at Mill Ridge. The four-day schedule is exclusive to 2021 and required a second course, which is where Cedar Hill comes in.

I do believe he was specifically referring to the 2021 USWDGC.

But that is interesting information to know as well.

 

[the_lung]

Bottom line is that for players who are frustrated right now, there are easy avenues for this frustration. There are TDs, there is a club, there are people right there in town to contact to try and get things fixed. Posting cryptic messages on social media and calling out the national sanctioning body hundreds of miles away isn't the answer, and it seems like everyone else besides McBeth and Finale get that.

 

[TurnedOver]

Bottom line is that for players who are frustrated right now, there are easy avenues for this frustration. There are TDs, there is a club, there are people right there in town to contact to try and get things fixed. Posting cryptic messages on social media and calling out the national sanctioning body hundreds of miles away isn't the answer, and it seems like everyone else besides McBeth and Finale get that.

I think they're unhappy with the course selection.

I'm glad some prominent players are speaking out. We have lots of great disc golf courses in this country. The PDGA should only schedule NT events at the best courses.

 

[teemkey]

I think they're unhappy with the course selection.

I'm glad some prominent players are speaking out. We have lots of great disc golf courses in this country. The PDGA should only schedule NT events at the best courses.

The PDGA has more than just the course to consider when awarding NT status to a tournament.

At least as important as the course(s) is raising prize money, recruiting volunteers, and providing amenities like parking, restrooms, and housing for players, volunteers, and spectators.

 

[_MTL_]

I think they're unhappy with the course selection.

I'm glad some prominent players are speaking out. We have lots of great disc golf courses in this country. The PDGA should only schedule NT events at the best courses.

Lets say you think / everyone thinks that ABC Disc golf course is the best course in the world. Every pro loves it.

No one at the ABC disc golf course has run a PDGA event besides a local C tier and has no financial commitment. So you are saying that ABC disc golf course should host an NT event because it's awesome and ignore everything else?

Quality courses are important. No discussion needed. However, it's simply one of many measuring sticks the PDGA uses to determine which events are what.

 

[brutalbrutus]

I think they're unhappy with the course selection.

I'm glad some prominent players are speaking out. We have lots of great disc golf courses in this country. The PDGA should only schedule NT events at the best courses.

Cell signal is also important for the live streams. Some of the best courses are in the middle of nowhere.

 

[ru4por]

I think they're unhappy with the course selection.

I'm glad some prominent players are speaking out. We have lots of great disc golf courses in this country. The PDGA should only schedule NT events at the best courses.

Why would I, or anyone outside of the TD or PDGA, care what prominent players think of a course?

OK, I care to the extent that I would appreciate a review posted here.

 

[Dingus]

On the broader scheme, most people are thrilled whenever an event gets put in Nashville. They want to do it here so they can party afterwards. I wonder if the disc golf community is not affluent enough to see that as a perk. Maybe they can't afford Nashvegas?

 

[biscoe]

On the broader scheme, most people are thrilled whenever an event gets put in Nashville. They want to do it here so they can party afterwards. I wonder if the disc golf community is not affluent enough to see that as a perk. Maybe they can't afford Nashvegas?

They can afford Smuggler's Notch and the Bay Area...