PDGA rule update needed, need as many signatures as possible!!!

[Dingus]

Why is this even up to TDs? I say pass the buck to the parks department. Surely most city parks do not allow golf carts on their property. Make them field the accessibility waiver requests.

 

[John Rock]

The City would probably get rid of Disc Golf if faced with an ADA lawsuit.

 

[davetherocketguy]

Why is this even up to TDs? I say pass the buck to the parks department. Surely most city parks do not allow golf carts on their property. Make them field the accessibility waiver requests.

Do that, and a lot of courses get pulled.

 

[Dingus]

Do that, and a lot of courses get pulled.

What do you mean "do that"? Aren't golf carts already banned from parks? Are you implying I can roll around in a golf cart outside of a tournament? From my vantage point parks already "do that" and the courses haven't been pulled.

 

[davetherocketguy]

What do you mean "do that"? Aren't golf carts already banned from parks? Are you implying I can roll around in a golf cart outside of a tournament? From my vantage point parks already "do that" and the courses haven't been pulled.

"Make" them field accessibility requests. If I understand that correctly, you're suggesting that if someone comes to the park with a cart then the TD just says, "Well the PARK doesn't allow carts so you'll have to talk to them." Passing the buck on to the parks is kind of a bad idea. We create too many headaches for a parks department for a sport they make very little money off of and that'll create the temptation to pull the course is what I am getting at. IMHO we ought to be handling this internally.

 

[ru4por]

Wow....this thread sure went off the rails. Maybe I can try to reset the conversation.

The discussion was about parks and courses that could accommodate carts.
Many parks and courses can and do make use of golf carts.
Not all parks and courses would be required to do so, because of various reasons.
The OP is simply talking about giving a buddy the chance to compete.
The issue is indeed fraught with problems and the PDGA seems to be looking at it.
MTL has made a suggestion as to how to go about it until some time that the PDGA address's it.

Let's not go traveling down some crazy path. Geez.

 

[ru4por]

Wow....this thread sure went off the rails. Maybe I can try to reset the conversation.

The discussion was about parks and courses that could accommodate carts.
Many parks and courses can and do make use of golf carts.
Not all parks and courses would be required to do so, because of various reasons.
The OP is simply talking about giving a buddy the chance to compete.
The issue is indeed fraught with problems and the PDGA seems to be looking at it.
MTL has made a suggestion as to how to go about it until some time that the PDGA address's it.

Let's not go traveling down some crazy path. Geez.

I know....I know. Am I new here? :doh:

 

[Dingus]

Wow....this thread sure went off the rails. Maybe I can try to reset the conversation.

The discussion was about parks and courses that could accommodate carts.
Many parks and courses can and do make use of golf carts.
Not all parks and courses would be required to do so, because of various reasons.
The OP is simply talking about giving a buddy the chance to compete.
The issue is indeed fraught with problems and the PDGA seems to be looking at it.
MTL has made a suggestion as to how to go about it until some time that the PDGA address's it.

Let's not go traveling down some crazy path. Geez.

So if the parks department has already said carts are safe, why don't we just allow the carts? The only reasonable (or otherwise) argument has been that carts aren't safe. So if they are safe, as evidenced by the parks department saying they are, why do we care??

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Meh, you can have my name on it and my junk email... data mining complete!

 

[ru4por]

So if the parks department has already said carts are safe, why don't we just allow the carts? The only reasonable (or otherwise) argument has been that carts aren't safe. So if they are safe, as evidenced by the parks department saying they are, why do we care??

Lol....safety could be one of a host of concerns. I don't feel like repeating myself, read the thread.

 

[Dingus]

Lol....safety could be one of a host of concerns. I don't feel like repeating myself, read the thread.

Safety was literally the only reason given. And I just re-read the thread and confirmed this to be the case. Thanks for making me waste a minute of my life re reading what I already read.

 

[Casey 1988]

I thought the PDGA had a wavier that had to get done and then the doctor proof that the guy is indeed needing to use the waiver to clear the use of the transport, including hand bike? I say not a cart but an ATV could work in most situations where a cart is not easy to use but motorized vehicles are not strictly prohibited, then the hand bikes are the option when use of Motorized vehicles are used.

 

[wolfmandragon]

The Casey Martin comparison to this doesn't work very well most of the time. Golf courses are specifically designed and laid out with golf carts in mind. Disc golf courses are not. Not exactly a "no brainer" comparison for at least half of the dg courses I've played. The suggestion of "leaving it up to the TD" sounds like something that would come from someone who has never been a TD before. I agree with DavidSauls. I can hear it now, "Come on mmaaaaaaannnn I neeeeeed this cart. I pulled my hammy last week I'm disabled."

Fair. I have never acted as a TD. I see your point.

 

[wolfmandragon]

Couple things;

.....

Im also not sure why you seem to be taking shots at me personally, like im some kind of A hole for wanting my handicapped friend to be able to participate in a game we both like.
....

.

Because MTL always acts the jerk. I can disagree with you and still be polite; it seems to be beyond him.

 

[Jugular]

I'd like to see this issue addressed. It seems to me that a petition is not required unless the PDGA refuses to make a suitable change. Can anyone confirm if the PDGA have considered and set the issue aside? Or is it currently under consideration? I think it's important that it is not too onerous for an individual to get waivers. Ideally they apply once and it would apply wherever accommodation can be made given course restrictions.

 

[Smigles]

The rule is fine as it is in my opinion and is valid for 99,9% of the players.

Exceptions for medical reasons are another issue and in some cases certainly valid. But i would keep them as such, exceptions.

 

[ru4por]

I'd like to see this issue addressed. It seems to me that a petition is not required unless the PDGA refuses to make a suitable change. Can anyone confirm if the PDGA have considered and set the issue aside? Or is it currently under consideration? I think it's important that it is not too onerous for an individual to get waivers. Ideally they apply once and it would apply wherever accommodation can be made given course restrictions.

Yeah, I agree. I think the initial decision should not be left up to the TD. I think it is important to standardize the decision and review the cases individually. Some petitions would have to have an expiration as well, I think. There is quite a difference approving a cart for a player with Parkinsons vs. one is recovering from injury.

The one park I know, rents golf carts (I think they have two) for like 100 buck per half day. I have never seen one in use for play, but our club rents it for tournaments to run water, set up CTP's, run out to rules questions....

I am not sure the club should have to eat the 100 bucks for special player accommodation.

They are also gas powered and pretty noisy and smelly.

You are correct though. Most courses don't have carts or are not appropriate for carts. Most players do not have a disability that makes a cart necessary.

Is disc golf as a sport, responsible to make all leagues and tournaments ADA compliant, or all courses for that matter?

 

[Plankeye]

As others mentioned already...

It should not be up to the TD. It should be something that the PDGA will need to approve and grant a waiver.

In NC there are very few courses that are cart friendly.

 

[Jugular]

...
You are correct though. Most courses don't have carts or are not appropriate for carts. Most players do not have a disability that makes a cart necessary.

Is disc golf as a sport, responsible to make all leagues and tournaments ADA compliant, or all courses for that matter?

You have me thinking, perhaps DGCR could make an improvement here (unless I'm unaware of it) and have clear ratings on whether a course had golf carts for rent, whether they're open and willing to let mobility scooters on the course and if the course would even be suitable for a scooter/cart. Depending on the disability, mobility may only be required for 50% of holes or the distance covered so a course may not be suitable for someone who has severe mobility issues but may still be suitable for someone who can walk short distances but not long, or over even ground but not uneven.

Then I'm thinking, if you can't walk a great distance or across uneven ground taking a stance and throwing on uneven ground would be pretty tough. Have I seen wheelchair disc golf before? I feel like I have somewhere.

I imagine more could be done to accomodate in many cases but the nature of the sport would inevitably preclude all courses being open to all abilities and so the best we can do is always strive for improvements where possible and desirable and ensure information is clear. I can imagine someone with a disability being very frustrated in finding suitable courses if there's not good information available.

 

[biscoe]

I'd like to see this issue addressed. It seems to me that a petition is not required unless the PDGA refuses to make a suitable change. Can anyone confirm if the PDGA have considered and set the issue aside? Or is it currently under consideration? I think it's important that it is not too onerous for an individual to get waivers. Ideally they apply once and it would apply wherever accommodation can be made given course restrictions.

The PDGA deals with various waivers all the time. The process is in no way onerous. This is a non-issue.