Pet Peeve: foot fault run ups

[_MTL_]

I heard that USDGC was using S&D this year. Not surprising -- they've gotten rules variances approved almost every year, i.e they seem to be on the cutting edge of competitive philosophy.

85% of what they do is generally frowned upon by the players. The only thing they were innovators on that players really liked were elevated baskets, artificial OB and the no 2 meter rule. But for those three good things, there have been tons of bad ideas. Like Bunc'rs and Stroke and distance and handicap scoring. And then there have been rumors or rings around baskets that you can't putt from and now this?

If it wasn't for the money and the prestigue of the event, no one would want to play it. It's the most gimmicky and dumb stuff our sport has to offer and why it happens at the biggest event of the year and not some small XC tier is beyond me.

I've had a few chances to play USDGC and could technically go this year if I wanted. I'm a SC and all I have to say is "My state rep is me" but I'm not gonna play under rules that only apply one weekend a year.

 

[DavidSauls]

Yesterday I was talking with another designer about this and hatched the idea that maybe we should allow run-ups but your follow thru stance had to finish behind the marker. That way it would be much easier to make the foot fault call because the player could see where they landed. If you were kneeling and lunging, the same thing applies, you land behind your mark. I would consider extending the line back to maybe 50 centimeters versus the current 30cm and maybe making the width equal to your disc 21-22cm. You could use a mini but then your width is only the width of your marker. You would allow players to either leave their thrown disc as the marker like current rules or actually use another full size disc as the marker.

Wouldn't that just magnify the problems with the vague "demonstrate balance" rule wording? Or have you better way to define "finish"?

 

[DavidSauls]

By the way, those of you opposed to S&D just don't get it. Someday you will. It has very little to do with foot faults, and has everything to do with making it a better game.

My old knees have strongly-felt opinions about S&D.

 

[grodney]

85% of what they do is generally frowned upon by the players.

Good stat. Whatever, I said they were innovators, so it's not surprising to see them experiment with the rules. Of course not all of their stuff has worked. I certainly haven't agreed with all of the concepts -- I'm sure nobody has. I just happen to agree with this one.

 

[giles]

Never been a fan of the stand and deliver idea. I know we don't attract spectators as it is but I think the run up makes for better viewing and looks more athletic. I also believe it compromises some of the reward for a good shot on two drive holes. You lose a bit of competitive advantage that you have if you put your drive in an open level area vs a player who ends up on the edge of the rough, against a tree or on a hard slope. Stand and deliver should be considered punitive from failure to set yourself up with a good placement. On that note, I'd be ok with designated S&D roped off bunkers on some two drive holes.


/sorry if I'm being redundant, I didn't look through the thread.

//my forehand S&D is as good as my run up forehand.

 

[grodney]

I also believe it compromises some of the reward for a good shot on two drive holes. You lose a bit of competitive advantage that you have if you put your drive in an open level area vs a player who ends up on the edge of the rough, against a tree or on a hard slope.

That's a pretty good argument.

 

[Cgkdisc]

David Sauls - Wouldn't that just magnify the problems with the vague "demonstrate balance" rule wording? Or have you better way to define "finish"?

Demonstrate Balance has been clarified already if you watched the Demonstrate Balance Putting video and read the updated Q&A. I don't think you need to be balanced on your follow thru but you would still have to land behind your mark even if you were flat out on the ground. Otherwise, foot fault.

 

[trifocal]

Watching 1st round 2017 Worlds vids and.... I guess it's okay to step on your mini in the fairway.

 

[trifocal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCkKTrTXXYk
Wysocki, Round 3 back 9. 16:33.

 

[BrotherDave]

Watching 1st round 2017 Worlds vids and.... I guess it's okay to step on your mini in the fairway.

I saw one of those. It was really obvious, too. This is why I don't give a flying hoot about the jump-putters, because there are so many things like this that people don't enforce either. Sure, I'm making a "two wrongs make a right" defense but hey.

 

[trifocal]

I saw one of those. It was really obvious, too. This is why I don't give a flying hoot about the jump-putters, because there are so many things like this that people don't enforce either. Sure, I'm making a "two wrongs make a right" defense but hey.

I wouldn't even be grousing over these FF's if it wasn't for Jomez and Central Coast vids. They are super :clap:. Never watched DG tourney vids before the Beaver Fling series. I'm really enjoying watching how smooth these guys play. Amazing. But come on. Golf is all about making the shot from where it lies. A fairway marker foot fault is just that.

Call it or explain to us 850 players why its okay to throw from somewhere off your lie.

 

[Halcón]

Foot faults by the pros are like politicians' lies. They happen so often that you can't keep track and barely notice them anymore.

 

[araytx]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCkKTrTXXYk
Wysocki, Round 3 back 9. 16:33.

Not called by anyone, yet acknowledged by everyone (incl probably Rick) that it was probably a fault.

For those that don't see it. Ricky has about a 18' slightly uphill putt, and the log he's standing on gives way just as he releases the putt, so he falls forward. Rick immediately looks up, like, "is anyone gonna call that, I can't." The commentators note that all the players are looking around laughing, and they say, "nobody's gonna call it because Ricky is just gonna make the next one."
.

 

[JC17393]

Not called by anyone, yet acknowledged by everyone (incl probably Rick) that it was probably a fault.

For those that don't see it. Ricky has about a 18' slightly uphill putt, and the log he's standing on gives way just as he releases the putt, so he falls forward. Rick immediately looks up, like, "is anyone gonna call that, I can't." The commentators note that all the players are looking around laughing, and they say, "nobody's gonna call it because Ricky is just gonna make the next one."
.

To which I would reply, "so why not call it?" If he's going to make it anyway, no harm done to his round. If he's going to make it anyway, no one's a "bad guy" for making a legitimate call. Talk about a prime opportunity to demonstrate that the best players in the world know and actually follow the rules. What a joke.

This is the problem. Everyone sees it's a fault, including the player (who's asking for it to be called), yet they're still choosing not to call it. And we wonder why everyone gets upset and accusatory when a player dares to actually make an honest call.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

One advantage golf has in this aspect is there's no run up and unless there's a lost ball, they're always playing the same ball exactly from the spot it came to rest.. so there's essentially no judgement or anything to measure.

Given that most existing courses weren't designed with S&D in mind, I don't think I'd be a fan of that rules change.

Bottom line: if we don't police our selves, we sacrifice the integrity of our sport.

 

[_MTL_]

The irony, actually, is the top pros are much more likely to call foot faults than most people.

 

[philstine]

The irony, actually, is the top pros are much more likely to call foot faults than most people.

No, the REAL irony is that kids who are introduced to disc golf through programs like EDGE actually do call foot faults … until they're exposed to tournament videos and see that top pros don't call them and figure if top pros are getting a free pass, they should get one to one too.

 

[_MTL_]

Seeing something in real time is a lot different than the luxury of video.

 

[trifocal]

Somebody explain the Wysocki goddamn falling putt.

Apparently it's the Pirate Code out there on the prestigious PDGA Tour. The Rules aren't rules so much as gentlemanly suggestions.

I'm looking forward to next year and the 2018 Ript Revenge World Championships.
That'll make for some final 9 drama.

 

[Steve West]

Somebody explain the Wysocki goddamn falling putt.

Apparently it's the Pirate Code out there on the prestigious PDGA Tour. The Rules aren't rules so much as gentlemanly suggestions.

I'm looking forward to next year and the 2018 Ript Revenge World Championships.
That'll make for some final 9 drama.

If it had been called, the penalty would have been a warning and Ricky would have had to re-throw. I guess nobody thought the chance of him missing the re-putt (or the chance of getting another call for a foot-fault later in the round, when it would have cost a penalty throw) was worth the time and effort to make the call.

But, they should have called it.