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Preventing injuries - proper form

measke

Newbie
Joined
Oct 5, 2017
Messages
5
Hi all!

The season is starting soon now and I can't wait to hit the courses again! This season I plan to put much more effort into deliberate practice sessions and form improvement. I have a lot of ideas on how to improve my form already, however I cannot find a good source of information on how to prevent injuries.

I found the following article (which is unfortunately without any specific form tips): https://discgolf.ultiworld.com/2017/01/12/ouch-look-injury-bug-avoid/

So I put up the following question for everyone: What are common form flaws which lead to increased risk of injuries and how to avoid them? Backhand, forehand and overhand throws.

If it's too general of a question then I can be a bit more specific: In my forehand form I do not feel comfortable in my shoulder and elbow. I often feel uncomfortable shocks going through the shoulder joint and weakness in the elbow area. I get similar sensations during overhand throws.

Cheers!
 
I would start here. https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128673

If you get your elbow way ahead of your shoulders that's when you really strain the elbow/ligaments. If you lock the upper arm to shoulders more, like in this video, and get leverage through your body it really helps.

If you are sore at all I would recommend resting until you feel 100%. Then start going at the proper form. Bad FH form is not worth messing with. Even if this screws up your accuracy for a little it's very much worth fixing, and you'll throw better soon.
 
Most common flaws leading to injury have to do with balance/posture, swing sequence, restricted body turn in backswing and followthrough, and trying to throw too hard. You should feel like your throw is dynamically balanced start to finish and an effortless toss of the weight of the disc and free flowing.





 
If you are sore at all I would recommend resting until you feel 100%.

I would amend this to say do something to get blood flowing through the sore area and to alleviate the soreness. Light band work, flexbar exercises, etc. can help prehab/rehab and to strengthen the area for when you get back to throwing and learning proper form.
 
I would start here. https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128673

If you get your elbow way ahead of your shoulders that's when you really strain the elbow/ligaments. If you lock the upper arm to shoulders more, like in this video, and get leverage through your body it really helps.

If you are sore at all I would recommend resting until you feel 100%. Then start going at the proper form. Bad FH form is not worth messing with. Even if this screws up your accuracy for a little it's very much worth fixing, and you'll throw better soon.
Most common flaws leading to injury have to do with balance/posture, swing sequence, restricted body turn in backswing and followthrough, and trying to throw too hard. You should feel like your throw is dynamically balanced start to finish and an effortless toss of the weight of the disc and free flowing.

Thanks for the good pointers!

It turned out I was indeed strong arming the throw and getting my elbow way ahead of my body. I knew I was strong arming BH, but did not suspect the FH to be suffering from it as well!

Here's how I think I got the FH form much better now: first I tried keeping the upper arm fixed to the body core during the swing. This got me rid of the strong arming. Then I tried to leave my whole arm behind and let it be pulled forward by the torso - it felt very smooth and fast. Even effortless. I think the elbow catches up with the torso during mid swing and gets slightly ahead of the torso by release.

Finally I learned that the shoulder joint is very unstable by nature and I tryed to additionally focus on isometrically contracting the shoulder (focusing on the scapula) - this added additional confidence to the swing and I don't notice any uncomfortable shocks or such any more.

In the forhand tutorial video you recommended to have in the backswing elbow forward of the shoulder - I noticed that it was more comfortable for me to leave it slightly lagging behind as described above. Why do you recommend to have the elbow forward of the shoulder in the backswing?

Also, in the video you recommend to pronate the wrist during the finish of the throw. I found some sources stating that forceful wrist flexion and pronation can lead to golfers elbow. Did you mean passive pronation of the arm after release to absorb remaining kinetic energy? Do you actively flex the wrist at release?
 
I'll leave the specifics to SW22...but describe a few things of how it "feels" for me. I have an above average FH with 375+, but definitely not where SW22's is at. I feel like the elbow "catches up" as well, rather than leads. I try to fix that upper arm angle relative to shoulders in a way but, during the throw it feels like I just leverage my upper body/torso forward and the elbow catches up to where my hips are, by that point the weight of the disc loads back my forearm and wrist, and when the angles line up I begin to swing/unload the disc through the hit point/zone.

As for the wrist pronation, I see it more as let the wrist snap/follow through in the natural way. Depending on if you are throwing very hyzer vs. flat vs. anhyzer the arm slot and wrist follow through will be slightly different. What it is more of, is telling people to not follow through "palm to the sky" no matter what. When people torque the disc badly FH, it's often from rolling the wrist. So they get advice of following through "palm up" to eliminate the wrist roll...which is really taking it to the opposite extreme. You just need clean snap/leverage through the disc and let the arm follow through as is comfortable. I do not know the specifics of injury mechanisms, so take what I say from personal experience of myself and others I have seen, but not gospel.

If you look at slow motion of baseball pitchers, like very slow motion and zoomed in, you'll see their wrist pronates slightly even with normal fastball release. It's not just a straight down snap for them even, and they're not trying to throw a cutter or something. It's just how the extension is.
 
Here's how I think I got the FH form much better now: first I tried keeping the upper arm fixed to the body core during the swing. This got me rid of the strong arming. Then I tried to leave my whole arm behind and let it be pulled forward by the torso - it felt very smooth and fast. Even effortless. I think the elbow catches up with the torso during mid swing and gets slightly ahead of the torso by release.

Finally I learned that the shoulder joint is very unstable by nature and I tryed to additionally focus on isometrically contracting the shoulder (focusing on the scapula) - this added additional confidence to the swing and I don't notice any uncomfortable shocks or such any more.

In the forhand tutorial video you recommended to have in the backswing elbow forward of the shoulder - I noticed that it was more comfortable for me to leave it slightly lagging behind as described above. Why do you recommend to have the elbow forward of the shoulder in the backswing?

Also, in the video you recommend to pronate the wrist during the finish of the throw. I found some sources stating that forceful wrist flexion and pronation can lead to golfers elbow. Did you mean passive pronation of the arm after release to absorb remaining kinetic energy? Do you actively flex the wrist at release?
Why elbow forward in the backswing... because then it is loaded back / leveraged forward in the transition against the shoulders/torso with lag and on plane. You might have a case of what you are feeling ain't really what is happening.

The pronation is mostly to absorb the energy in the follow through and give the arm more space and extension, but it starts happening naturally during the swing since the backswing is supinated and keeps the release of the head on plane. Never had a problem with golfers elbow from FH. I did have it once from my BH grip being too tight. Pitchers that supinate their sliders are more prone to tearing the UCL.

I don't know if I'd say it's a forceful wrist flexion, more ulnar deviation than flexion probably, it feels effortless, it's lag loaded back in extension and releases back to neutral/maybe slight flexion and kind of stops to release the disc forward, like using a hammer sideways and releasing/leveraging the head weight of the hammer into the nail.



 
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I'm 57 years old and I don't want to get hurt while having fun. I throw mainly backhand, but I also throw forehand without hesitation when it's the best shot.

SW22 is the form guy. I'm the "general rule" guy. Here it is in a nutshell. If you're stressing too much and especially if it hurts when you do it, you're doing it wrong. Smooth is far in disc golf. Think a whole lot more about the disc than you do about you. The disc needs to come out smooth and at the proper angle. You need to put as much spin on the disc as you can if you want it to glide and as little spin as you can if you want it to drop out of the sky. Knowing proper form will help you to get the disc out farther, but knowing yourself and your influence on the disc is the key to consistency.
 
I'm 57 years old and I don't want to get hurt while having fun. I throw mainly backhand, but I also throw forehand without hesitation when it's the best shot.

SW22 is the form guy. I'm the "general rule" guy. Here it is in a nutshell. If you're stressing too much and especially if it hurts when you do it, you're doing it wrong. Smooth is far in disc golf. Think a whole lot more about the disc than you do about you. The disc needs to come out smooth and at the proper angle. You need to put as much spin on the disc as you can if you want it to glide and as little spin as you can if you want it to drop out of the sky. Knowing proper form will help you to get the disc out farther, but knowing yourself and your influence on the disc is the key to consistency.
I absolutely agree with the "smooth is far". I think what lead me to strong arming is that it is very difficult to find quality information or easy to understand instructions about good form. I consider it equally important to understand both the how and why of a proper form. This forum has given me the biggest improvement to my understanding in that - thank you all for this!

When I first started playing my form was spontaneous - we were just trying out the game with a group of friends. We didn't receive any training. Some of us had heard some ideas about how to throw and our mental models were influenced quite a lot by them. However, we were completely lacking general understanding about why certain motions were considered good. Also, some of the initial instructional ideas were outright wrong and damaging.

Some examples of incorrect instructions:
- imagine that you are trying to elbow someone
- pull through your core as close to your body as possible (without emphasizing that you should not pull with the arm, but lower body)
- it's like trying to snap a wet towel

At some point we probably also heard pointers in the right direction - use the lower body more, use your feet. However, we did not understand exactly how and where power is generated in the lower body and it did not give the improvement intended. We would try turning back more, take a very wide stride, run up faster. Unfortunately, none of these helped to improve our form and resulting throws.

Then we heard that we should not throw hard and slow down. The result was that throws indeed felt smoother and distance did not seem to suffer almost at all (just slightly). However, we would eventually still become frustrated at our inability to throw further. We would see better players throwing much further with effortless form yet neither they nor us could explain how they do it. Watching pro clinics on youtube did not help either.

Finally, I found this forum and started learning about the theory of how and why certain parts of the throwing motion are good. I took me quite a long time to change or overturn my previous understandings about form.

After I started digging into this forum I also started taking videos of myself and found 10+ things to improve. It has taken a lot of time and effort to change the things engrained in my form and the process is still ongoing. The problem was that initially I did not know how to prioritize the mistakes - what to solve first. As it has turned out - some mistakes were caused by other mistakes. Due to that a lot of time and effort has gone missing here. While my throw distance has not improved yet (it's always been at 100m range), I really feel that I am improving, and it has kept me hooked with the sport to date. I can't wait to get out playing again to try out all the new ideas I have.

That is why I started this thread. My understanding of the throw mechanics has improved quite a lot. However, I feel like I am lacking in understanding of which parts of possible form can be with high risk of injury. It would be good to know that as I am continuing to experiment with improving different parts of my form. Also, this would be beneficial to everyone else reading this forum. I believe it would benefit the sport in general if people taking up disc golf would get injured less, have smooth form and not plateau out at 100m of distance. Keep up the good work, everyone!
 
I absolutely agree with the "smooth is far". I think what lead me to strong arming is that it is very difficult to find quality information or easy to understand instructions about good form. I consider it equally important to understand both the how and why of a proper form. This forum has given me the biggest improvement to my understanding in that - thank you all for this!

When I first started playing my form was spontaneous - we were just trying out the game with a group of friends. We didn't receive any training. Some of us had heard some ideas about how to throw and our mental models were influenced quite a lot by them. However, we were completely lacking general understanding about why certain motions were considered good. Also, some of the initial instructional ideas were outright wrong and damaging.

Some examples of incorrect instructions:
- imagine that you are trying to elbow someone
- pull through your core as close to your body as possible (without emphasizing that you should not pull with the arm, but lower body)
- it's like trying to snap a wet towel

At some point we probably also heard pointers in the right direction - use the lower body more, use your feet. However, we did not understand exactly how and where power is generated in the lower body and it did not give the improvement intended. We would try turning back more, take a very wide stride, run up faster. Unfortunately, none of these helped to improve our form and resulting throws.

Then we heard that we should not throw hard and slow down. The result was that throws indeed felt smoother and distance did not seem to suffer almost at all (just slightly). However, we would eventually still become frustrated at our inability to throw further. We would see better players throwing much further with effortless form yet neither they nor us could explain how they do it. Watching pro clinics on youtube did not help either.

Finally, I found this forum and started learning about the theory of how and why certain parts of the throwing motion are good. I took me quite a long time to change or overturn my previous understandings about form.

After I started digging into this forum I also started taking videos of myself and found 10+ things to improve. It has taken a lot of time and effort to change the things engrained in my form and the process is still ongoing. The problem was that initially I did not know how to prioritize the mistakes - what to solve first. As it has turned out - some mistakes were caused by other mistakes. Due to that a lot of time and effort has gone missing here. While my throw distance has not improved yet (it's always been at 100m range), I really feel that I am improving, and it has kept me hooked with the sport to date. I can't wait to get out playing again to try out all the new ideas I have.

That is why I started this thread. My understanding of the throw mechanics has improved quite a lot. However, I feel like I am lacking in understanding of which parts of possible form can be with high risk of injury. It would be good to know that as I am continuing to experiment with improving different parts of my form. Also, this would be beneficial to everyone else reading this forum. I believe it would benefit the sport in general if people taking up disc golf would get injured less, have smooth form and not plateau out at 100m of distance. Keeph up the good work, everyone!

Sounds a lot like me. I just knew there had to be more than hucking frisbees when I first started and came to find this site in my second month of play, I decided to be a student of the game at that point. Somewhere a little over a year in now and I feel like SW22'S advice and his videos are a big part of the reason I'm getting 300' drives right now, one leg drills, door frame drills and the dingle arm really helped me understand where I should be at at each point during the throw. Couple that with disc golf strong workouts added to my routine and it actually does work. This is a sport so you need to train like it is a sport to be able to play it better. Good luck keep up the good work!
 
I've been having a lot of weird neck/chest pains, and I'm certain at this point it's because I wasn't following through properly. So that's all i've been focusing on lately and it's helping out quite a bit (both in terms of pain and quality of my throwing). I remember watching some video a while ago where Climo was asked how important follow through was, and he said, "it's everything". I'm starting to agree.
 
I've been having a lot of weird neck/chest pains, and I'm certain at this point it's because I wasn't following through properly. So that's all i've been focusing on lately and it's helping out quite a bit (both in terms of pain and quality of my throwing). I remember watching some video a while ago where Climo was asked how important follow through was, and he said, "it's everything". I'm starting to agree.

I started getting weird cracks in the neck when turning my head. No pain though. I went to a recovery doctor who referred me to a physiotherapist and massage. Turned out I had a trigger point in my upper trapezius which also caused other muscles to tense up. I'm not sure about the link to neck cracks but I guess it is possible. I think my neck problems could be linked to strong arming or just being really tense when trying to throw hard. Another possibility is just working with the computer too much and bad posture when sitting. I'm much more aware of my posture now and try to stretch & relax the neck are muscles more.
 
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I've been having a lot of weird neck/chest pains, and I'm certain at this point it's because I wasn't following through properly. So that's all i've been focusing on lately and it's helping out quite a bit (both in terms of pain and quality of my throwing). I remember watching some video a while ago where Climo was asked how important follow through was, and he said, "it's everything". I'm starting to agree.

It's really important to stride in balance/laterally. Don't get too closed and slam into the front hip. When your balance is right the follow through just happens. It's pretty amazing the amount of strain it takes off of you, when your left shoulder ends up facing the target after release. If you stop more 90 at the target then your right shoulder takes the brunt of that deceleration after throwing.

Again this isn't something you can really "try" to fix directly, it's all about the balance leading into the throw and during the throw.
 
It's really important to stride in balance/laterally. Don't get too closed and slam into the front hip. When your balance is right the follow through just happens. It's pretty amazing the amount of strain it takes off of you, when your left shoulder ends up facing the target after release. If you stop more 90 at the target then your right shoulder takes the brunt of that deceleration after throwing.

Again this isn't something you can really "try" to fix directly, it's all about the balance leading into the throw and during the throw.

I hear what you're saying, but by focusing on the finish I think it is changing what I do before the finish.
 
I've been having a lot of weird neck/chest pains, and I'm certain at this point it's because I wasn't following through properly. So that's all i've been focusing on lately and it's helping out quite a bit (both in terms of pain and quality of my throwing). I remember watching some video a while ago where Climo was asked how important follow through was, and he said, "it's everything". I'm starting to agree.
Chest pains? That's one I don't think I've heard before in disc golf. :confused:

Neck pains, yes been there, done that from pure strong arming/not using the hips/balance.

I agree with Climo that the follow through or finish position is everything. It's kind of the basis of Blake_T/Beto working the hit backwards. SC called the finish position the tuning fork of your form which I really like.

 
Chest pains? That's one I don't think I've heard before in disc golf. :confused:

Neck pains, yes been there, done that from pure strong arming/not using the hips/balance.

I agree with Climo that the follow through or finish position is everything. It's kind of the basis of Blake_T/Beto working the hit backwards. SC called the finish position the tuning fork of your form which I really like.


Yeah, Costochondritis is a bitch. I know several big throwers that suffer from it pretty bad. I am the outlier who can't throw far and still managed to get it.
 
Why elbow forward in the backswing... because then it is loaded back / leveraged forward in the transition against the shoulders/torso with lag and on plane. You might have a case of what you are feeling ain't really what is happening.

Yikes...Jeremy Koling's form! If I threw like that for a round my season would be over whilst I recovered in traction.
 
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