Pro Tour: Does Payout Matter?

[DGPT]

This week's Pro Tour blog post: http://www.discgolfprotour.com/news/does-payout-matter

Does Payout Matter? Yes. Obviously.

But there is more to this than, "do pros need to eat?" We want to know, "how many pros need to eat?" and "why should the tour be responsible for making sure they can eat?"

​Cam Todd, an amazing artist and discer, won the Glass Blown Open this weekend. Going in to the weekend, he was ranked 31st in our Power Rankings. The two players who tied, one stroke off the lead, were the #1 and #2 players in the world, Paul McBeth and Ricky Wysocki.

Any given weekend each of these touring pros can get hot and thrill us. Cam was consistent, had his putting groove on, and managed significant adversity to recapture his lead and do just enough to hold off Paul and Ricky. Thank goodness he sells enough art to stay on tour.

Cam, like most humans, needs to eat. I am presuming a bit here, but I'm guessing that disc golf does not pay all the bills. His abilities as a painter allowed him to be on tour and thrill us at one of the most prestigious events in the world. Reread that last sentence. It is the crux of this article. He had a shot at the GBO title BECAUSE he is a great painter, not because he is a great discer.

Cam Todd is a Pro Open World Champion. The man can play. Having said that, he is ranked 31st for a reason. There are 40 players that have a higher PDGA rating. There are 100 players within 15 rating points of him. It is safe to say that there are dozens of Cam Todds out there that, on any given weekend, could win our big events. The question is, can they afford to play?

One of the goals of the Pro Tour is to make disc golf a spectator friendly sport. To succeed, we need the same great players to be competing at every event. We need to build an emotional connection with the players we are watching. We build these connections by watching our players face adversity and persevere. Or, by having an opportunity and grabbing it - as Paul McBeth has done so many times before.

Clip 1: Cam has a three stroke lead. On and to the right of the sidewalk is OB. Watch the three drives. Put yourself in the shoes of a fan that likes (or does not like) Wysocki and McBeth. This is the stuff that builds the emotional connection.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpALeTgLhdU&feature=youtu.be&t=8490

Clip 2: Watch it thru Cam's putt on hole 13. Again, after watching this, it is nearly impossible to not be rooting for Cam. He is building an emotional connection with us as he fights through adversity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpALeTgLhdU&feature=youtu.be&t=8714

Clip 3: On holes 13 & 14, Cam has lost his three stroke lead and is now tied with Paul and just one ahead of Ricky, two of the most accurate drivers on tour. By this point, people watching the broadcast have to be rooting for Cam to pull things back together and make this a battle. Watch all four drives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpALeTgLhdU&feature=youtu.be&t=10051

​Side note: Going down the stretch, McBeth and Wysocki failed to take advantage of several opportunities, however, they did succeed in putting themselves in a position to have those opportunities. Even Michael Jordan missed game winning shots sometimes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45mMioJ5szc

So, Cam perseveres. 15 years after his World Championship, he is back on the podium winning a huge event. He has just developed a cadre of fans. We now want to watch him and see how he does at the next event. We are beginning to be emotionally invested. Imagine if he was unable to compete at many more events. All the fans that want to root for him lose that emotional connection as well as a reason to watch. And yes, that could and does happen in our sport today.

Christian Dietrich, who is currently rated 7 points above Cam Todd, won the Beaver State Fling in 2010. He held off a late charge by Nikko Locastro (who was either #1 or #2 in the world). In the post event interview, Christian stated flatly that if the tournament had been a few more holes, he had no doubt that Nikko would have won. Watching that finish and then seeing that interview, Christian made many new fans that day. Unfortunately for disc golf, there was not enough money for him to go on tour and thrill us with his skills.

In 2010, Christian played in 4 National Tour events and averaged 20th place. If he got 20th at each of them, the four NT events would have earned him $1600. As it was, his win helped him earn $3600. Should he have gone on tour? Let's make some presumptions:

• A six month tour A target for each touring pro of $50K earned per year (being on the road is expensive)
• A job as a course pro for six months at $25K
• About half of their touring income would come from winnings and half from sponsors

With all of the above, players would need roughly $500 in earnings and $500 in sponsorship each week to make touring a financially intelligent choice. Luckily for us, many of our top players play disc golf because they love the game and they are willing to scrape, live out of cars, accept couches and rides, and make it work. But if we do better by them, they will do better by us by knowing they can stay on tour, by being able to put in more hours practicing, and hopefully climbing the ladder to be our Tour Champion.

Payout does matter. In 2016, the Pro Tour's MPO/FPO payout will be around $300K over the six events. The National Tour will have a similar payout over its seven events, but at NT events this payout will be spread across more divisions, effectively dilluting the value of this payout to the touring players. While it is easy to see the very top guys and how much money they are making between playing and sponsorships, we need to worry about the next tier of players. The McBeths, Wysockis and Schustericks need to be pushed and we need to develop the next wave of touring pros. The way we do that is by having big, deep, relatively flat payouts so that the top players in the world look at disc golf and decide it is a good life decision to go on tour and put on a show.

Our goal for the Pro Tour is to develop a sustainable tour (see next week's blog for more on the sustainable thing) that can financially support 30 players in 2016, 50 players in 2017, and 72+ players in 2018 and beyond. If we are trying to support 30 players in 2016, then the average payout for 15th-45th (where the 30th ranked player would expect to finish most weeks) needs to be close to $500. At the Vibram Open, the average is $435, which is a pretty good start.

The Pro Tour will be geographically sensible, and showcase the best men and women on the planet at the best courses and the best tournaments with an insane, can't look away, Tour Championship.

Are you ready to ​WATCH!?!?!?

 

[NOStheBOSS]

The top guys can certainly make a good living on tour. Making $30,000 in winnings, which Paul Ricky Will Nikko Feldy have proven to consistently do, is enough to eat on. This does not factor in their disc sales, sponsorships, appearances, etc. It is a tough lifestyle with constantly traveling, practicing, and sleeping in a different place every night, but for the right person that could be a dream

 

[DiscFifty]

"To succeed, we need the same great players to be competing at every event."

I wish there were more elite players at the top of the pool.

 

[ru4por]

I probably see things a bit differently. Disc golf is not a good spectator event, I don't think I can be made to be so. Disc golf is a niche sport with most of the general population having no clue it even exists. There are scads of niche sports with pro factions that will never be self supporting. Mountain biking, horseshoes, darts, bocce ball, shuffleboard, ultimate (all of which are know to Joe Public )..... Large companies are not going to funnel money to sports that will return little on marketing. Pro disc golfers struggle to make a living because few know about the sport and few are interested in watching it.

 

[VictorB]

The top guys can certainly make a good living on tour. Making $30,000 in winnings, which Paul Ricky Will Nikko Feldy have proven to consistently do, is enough to eat on. This does not factor in their disc sales, sponsorships, appearances, etc. It is a tough lifestyle with constantly traveling, practicing, and sleeping in a different place every night, but for the right person that could be a dream

So disc golf is in a good spot when only 5-10 players can sustain themselves and their touring off of their winnings? We already know the very tip top of the field can make it happen and be financially feasible. I think the focal point is that there are a lot of very talented people off of the tour that could make an impact - like Cam did last weekend - but it's just not a wise investment to try and do so. I think MJ is a great example, as he really plays more regionally and much less in National Tour events that are far away, even though he'd very likely do well in them. Not to say that he couldn't afford to be there, but more that the reward isn't worth the trade offs of going there to play (I'm sure like a lot of people he can't take a week off to go play every NT event - job, finances, etc as limiting factors)

Of course, not everyone should be able to make money on the Pro Tour, just like not everyone is cut out for playing in the NFL, for example. It's a tricky spot for the top echelon of the sport to be in.

 

[NOStheBOSS]

So disc golf is in a good spot when only 5-10 players can sustain themselves and their touring off of their winnings? We already know the very tip top of the field can make it happen and be financially feasible. I think the focal point is that there are a lot of very talented people off of the tour that could make an impact - like Cam did last weekend - but it's just not a wise investment to try and do so. I think MJ is a great example, as he really plays more regionally and much less in National Tour events that are far away, even though he'd very likely do well in them. Not to say that he couldn't afford to be there, but more that the reward isn't worth the trade offs of going there to play (I'm sure like a lot of people he can't take a week off to go play every NT event - job, finances, etc as limiting factors)

Of course, not everyone should be able to make money on the Pro Tour, just like not everyone is cut out for playing in the NFL, for example. It's a tricky spot for the top echelon of the sport to be in.

I'm not sure how you got so combative from my post. I was just pointing out that there are guys who can and are making good livings on the current tour. I don't know if the pro tour is in a good or bad place really, more money will come with more time and more exposure

 

[Improbably]

Sure go ahead.

But my money and effort is going into local courses so disc golf can be played by people who just want to go out and play disc golf.

You can't pay me enough to care about the Pros; although I would spectate for $10/hr plus travel expenses.

 

[VictorB]

I'm not sure how you got so combative from my post. I was just pointing out that there are guys who can and are making good livings on the current tour. I don't know if the pro tour is in a good or bad place really, more money will come with more time and more exposure

I wasn't trying to be combative at all really, sorry it came across that way.

 

[Dr.Smooth]

I would disagree with what is good spectating and what is not. Who would have thought that golf would be a spectator sport?

As disc golf grows so does amount of spectators. They are inversely related.

With the similarities of ball and disc golf I think it naturally puts itself into a category that darts, bowling, etc are not in.

But then again, I'm biased in thinking within the box of one my favorite sports.

 

[ScottyLove]

As disc golf grows so does amount of spectators. They are inversely related.

I agree with this....

Disc golf is much more watchable to me that ball golf and I'm an long time ball golfer. The flight of disc is much more appealing and interesting and quite simply, easier to see.

The reason ball golf is on your TV each week is more folks know about it, play it, and are influenced by the advertisers who know the audience demographics. Disc golf simply hasn't reached this saturation level... but given time, there is no reason to believe folks wouldn't want to tune in to watch.

I'm a viewer of live disc golf anytime the opportunity arises and while the number of folks like me is currently small, it should logically grow with more exposure.

 

[DavidSauls]

I'm a spectator-skeptic.

But the question raised by this blog is, "Is disc golf a better spectator sport with more payout?"

Players don't deserve more money, or indeed any money, because they are good at disc golf. They deserve it because of the entertainment value they provide. It's a bit of a chicken/egg question. It's generally agreed that more spectators means more payout. Is it also true that more payout means more spectators, by keeping more top players in the top events?

 

[teemkey]

Just for perspective, up until the early 1960s NFL players were expected to have a regular job in addition to playing professional football.

But "off-season" once meant players slipped out of their helmets and pads and into the uniforms of teachers, preachers, farmers and salesmen, not to return for at least six months. Players had to find "real" jobs to help pay the bills and prepare for their football after-lives
...

Houston, now 72 and living in Sagamore Hills, remembers when head coach Paul Brown first addressed the rookies at old League Park.

"Gentlemen," Brown said, "you're going to be off Mondays and Tuesdays. Get a job."

"So I did," said Houston, who opened an insurance and financial planning company that he still runs from his basement office. "All of us tried to get jobs that would help sustain the off-season. You needed money, you had to go to work."

...

Defensive back Ernie Kellerman, who played at St. Peter Chanel High School and Miami University, taught science and gym at Beachwood High for a few off-seasons before making a career of industrial sales.

Quarterback Frank Ryan earned a Ph.D. in mathematics, then taught classes at Case Western Reserve University, where the Browns practiced. He even taught during the season for a while, rushing from 8 a.m. class to 10 a.m. practice.

It wasn't just in Cleveland. Steve Sabol of NFL Films remembers that when he interviewed star receiver Raymond Berry of the Baltimore Colts in the early 1960s, the great Johnny Unitas was laying the linoleum on Berry's floor.

 

[ScottyLove]

I'm a spectator-skeptic.

But the question raised by this blog is, "Is disc golf a better spectator sport with more payout?"

Players don't deserve more money, or indeed any money, because they are good at disc golf. They deserve it because of the entertainment value they provide. It's a bit of a chicken/egg question. It's generally agreed that more spectators means more payout. Is it also true that more payout means more spectators, by keeping more top players in the top events?

I think it is a chicken/egg issue and the DGPT folks (Steve really I suspect) is trying the lay the egg without a chicken. Admirable for sure I think... and I hope it works. I love the slow build up of "sustainable"players over the next few year.

Someone has to go first and this might just do the trick. Creating recognizable rivalries and compelling stories from stop to stop is the goal here and it has as good a chance as anything else I've seen.

 

[AndyJB]

Its been said all over DGCR and Facebook,but I think its worth repeating: disc golf is physically hard to spectate. Think about Maple Hill...where do you expect spectators to sit and watch? Or stand and watch? Even if they are off the main fairways, there's a better than average chance of a shot caroming off a tree and then you have to bail so you dont interfere with said disc.

Yeah, there's open courses out there...like USDGC, which, not inconsequentually, happens to draw a decent crowd every year. Even with as open it is, there are entire holes where no one can spectate.

I'm playing a big 3-day A-Tier at the end of this month in Denver at Badlands, which happens to be my favorite "open" course in the state (the bottom portion of the course is certainly not open) and takes up a lot of space...there's still no place for spectators to..well..spectate..they will be standing in or at the very least on the border of another fairway. Then I think about an event even closer to me called Sakuna Matata...it sold out this year in less than 5 minutes and has a lot of of top local pros playing. If I have a free day that weekend I might volunteer as a spotter but I can go and spectate...there's no room!

Im not trying to say that room is the only factor with lack of spectators but it is A factor. And I know I dont want disc golf to "come out of the woods" either. So if you're looking to bolster payouts with more spectators, Im not sure youre looking at it realistically.

 

[sidewinder22]

I would disagree with what is good spectating and what is not. Who would have thought that golf would be a spectator sport?

As disc golf grows so does amount of spectators. They are inversely related.

That would be directly related.

 

[DG_player]

DG isn't going to become a big spectator sport by virtue of paying pros enough so they can tour full time.

If it's ever going to become a big spectator sport, it'll follow the same path as ball golf. When recreational play becomes big enough, the potential spectator base will grow, as well as DG manufacturers revenues, allowing them to plow more money into sponsorships and tournaments to promote their products.

 

[AndyJB]

Does anyone have any even half-assed demos on recreational disc golfers vs. golfers? Because, depending on locale, disc golf is pretty damn popular with the casual crowd...

 

[SD86]

How good a spectator sport is might not be the issue. For example: IMHO Ice Hockey is a great sport to see in person, at the rink. However, it does not translate well to television (again IMHO), and hockey is a fairly popular sport but not to the level of football (great on TV and in person), basketball (good enough in both) and baseball (unique experience at the park, only okay to me on TV, and the sport's popularity has been dropping for a while).

Golf ball golf is a bit difficult as a spectator on the course. But when I went to the Masters on practice day in 2007, the Augusta National Golf Course and grounds held as much mystique as the golf play itself (I followed Fred Couples's practice round on the front nine, and Sergio Garcia and his group on the back nine).

IMHO the bottom line to grow this sport is its viewability on television/Youtube/yougettheidea. And Disc Golf is very amenable to being shown on television. Will it become the NFL? Not for a long time, but if golf ball golf can be as popular as it is, then DG could become popular.

Will payouts to pros make a difference? I dunno... that seems to be Effect more than Cause, IMHO.

 

[kerplunk]

"geographically sensible"
Nice subtle swipe at DGWT and that other mess.

 

[JeremyKShort]

If there's going to be more payout, then that money has to come from somewhere. If it's not coming from higher player entree fees, then there only so many other options. We're not really in a spot to charge spectators to watch, there's not enough demand for that. It come come from more or bigger sponsors, but there's got to be more spectator for that to happen, so that's a catch 22.

As far as live at the course spectating, disc golf is not as good as other sports. The wooded holes that make up a lot of disc golf are difficult to have a large gallery at. Getting 200 people around a wooded hole is pretty challenging, and making that number larger is going to be even more difficult. The more open holes work ok(the GBO is an example where it can work well), but the others are really problems.

If live tv or Internet viewing ever becomes bigger n disc golf that could drive up sponsors, but as long as it's just disc golfers watching that won't happen.