Pro Tour: Does Payout Matter?

[JC17393]

"geographically sensible"
Nice subtle swipe at DGWT and that other mess.

I'm pretty sure the "swipe" is aimed at the NT more than anything else (it predates the DGWT). Far and away the biggest flaw with the NT/major schedule (and to a lesser extent, the A-tier schedule) has been that there's rarely ever any rhyme or reason to it.

Just look at this year's NT/majors... Arizona, two months off, Kansas and Missouri in back to back weeks, a week off, California, two weeks off, Oregon, one week off, Massachusetts, a month off, Kansas, a month off, Ohio, a month off, South Carolina.

And it's pretty much like that every year. Geographically sensible would be a good start toward making it more viable for more players to get to more of the events.

 

[Broken Shoulder]

So there are 30 locations prepared to pay a course pro $25k for half a year?
And that number goes up each year?
Huh.

 

[kerplunk]

I'm pretty sure the "swipe" is aimed at the NT more than anything else (it predates the DGWT). Far and away the biggest flaw with the NT/major schedule (and to a lesser extent, the A-tier schedule) has been that there's rarely ever any rhyme or reason to it.

Just look at this year's NT/majors... Arizona, two months off, Kansas and Missouri in back to back weeks, a week off, California, two weeks off, Oregon, one week off, Massachusetts, a month off, Kansas, a month off, Ohio, a month off, South Carolina.

And it's pretty much like that every year. Geographically sensible would be a good start toward making it more viable for more players to get to more of the events.

Swipe probably has a more negative connotation than I intended. But counterpoint isn't quite right either. My vocabulary sucks these days.

Good point about the NTs.

 

[JedV]

Just for perspective, up until the early 1960s NFL players were expected to have a regular job in addition to playing professional football.

Lol, the CFL (Canadian Football League) pays their players 1/50th of what the NFL players make. Then again, it's an 8 team league, where the top 6 make the playoffs

http://www.therichest.com/sports/fo...fl-player-makes-only-80000-per-year/?view=all

 

[Cgkdisc]

Along with tracking payouts, shouldn't those involved - tournament hosts and PDGA - be tracking spectator stats to know how things are progressing for any pro tour events? Even if they're estimates, I would think stats like daily non-playing spectators paid and free, non-playing spectators on final day, online average daily viewers paying/non-paying, and same for final round. Plus, maybe a followup 6 months later for online viewing stats to-date for videos posted online, paid/free.

 

[fireawayjoel]

Isn't Christian Dietrich a lawyer? Pretty sure disc golf isn't going to financially compete with that for a long while...

 

[VictorB]

Its been said all over DGCR and Facebook,but I think its worth repeating: disc golf is physically hard to spectate. Think about Maple Hill...where do you expect spectators to sit and watch? Or stand and watch? Even if they are off the main fairways, there's a better than average chance of a shot caroming off a tree and then you have to bail so you dont interfere with said disc.

Disc golf is only hard to watch in person because of the terrain.

If you have nice ball golf style courses that don't play heavily wooded areas like the ones at the Memorial, or the USDGC (or even the St. Jude tournament last year which was on a ball golf course) it's probably easy to argue that it's more spectator friendly than walking along and watching a ball golf tournament. Object is easier to see, and isn't flying as far. Pace of play is similar so galleries can follow along easily.

The good thing about disc golf is that a course can be set up on almost any piece of land that isn't being used. The bad part is that sometimes it's in the woods and people can't follow and watch easily.

 

[ScottyLove]

Along with tracking payouts, shouldn't those involved - tournament hosts and PDGA - be tracking spectator stats to know how things are progressing for any pro tour events? Even if they're estimates, I would think stats like daily non-playing spectators paid and free, non-playing spectators on final day, online average daily viewers paying/non-paying, and same for final round. Plus, maybe a followup 6 months later for online viewing stats to-date for videos posted online, paid/free.

^^^ THIS!

We'll need metrics to show potential advertisers what they'll get for their $$. In today's world, they're even gonna want to know the demographic breakdown as well. How may 18-25 men are watching will appeal to Red Bull or Monster. How many 50+ men are watching will appeal to Bayer. How many 26-39 year old women are watching is necessary to land Procter & Gamble.

But that'll take a while... so I we absolutely should be tracking raw numbers as Chuck points out. Maybe our YouTube channel provider of disc golf can start adding surveys to their content???

 

[ru4por]

^^^ THIS!

We'll need metrics to show potential advertisers what they'll get for their $$. In today's world, they're even gonna want to know the demographic breakdown as well. How may 18-25 men are watching will appeal to Red Bull or Monster. How many 50+ men are watching will appeal to Bayer. How many 26-39 year old women are watching is necessary to land Procter & Gamble.

But that'll take a while... so I we absolutely should be tracking raw numbers as Chuck points out. Maybe our YouTube channel provider of disc golf can start adding surveys to their content???

While I certainly agree, I think the numbers would have to exclude golfers actually playing the event. In my limited experience (Bowling Green, Am Worlds), outside of golfers in the event and family, the spectator attendance was negligible. I don't see a way, in my lifetime, that it will be different. Cynical....maybe.

 

[Cgkdisc]

While I certainly agree, I think the numbers would have to exclude golfers actually playing the event. In my limited experience (Bowling Green, Am Worlds), outside of golfers in the event and family, the spectator attendance was negligible. I don't see a way, in my lifetime, that it will be different. Cynical....maybe.

Note, I said "non-playing" in my suggested tracking. But players still count as "eyeballs" from the standpoint of many sponsors/advertisers.

 

[jimimc]

Wouldn't this all work out better if everyone were on the same page? 3 different tours all going on at the same time, overlapping and with no structure. Would it be so difficult for the PDGA and all of these other promoters to get together and create a 9-10 month tour with events that have a minimum $7000 added cash and a set fee and payout structure?

 

[demon102]

LOL at DG not being a spectator sport, I can see it has some challenges with courses built the way they are. If the snoozer that is ball golf can be a widely accepted spectator sport then discgolf certainly can. I've played both games and DG is just sexier in every way.

It's still in it's infancy but paying pros well so they can at least be middle class does seem like good goal to reach for but something that needs to be built up to. Every sport had this era, there was a time up to the 60s and maybe even up to the 70s that NFL players would play pro ball and go work blue collar jobs on the off season just cuz the money wasn't there. This is the state the DG is in right now.


This is normal for sports that are in it's infancy phase. It will change, I've watched this sport blow up and it doesn't seem to be slowing down especially since Merica got the message that everyone's killing themselves being couch potatos. Outdoor activities like DG are being reinvigorated and reconsidered cuz of this wave of change as well.

 

[demon102]

Was there anyone making a living as a touring pro in the 20th century? I'd love to see a line graph of both popularity and money being earned by pros over time. I'd also love to see graphs of company's sales growth over time and prize purses of tourneys as well as number of tournies. You wanna see the truth lets see some graphs!!


No clue where to get the info from tho lol.

 

[ru4por]

Note, I said "non-playing" in my suggested tracking. But players still count as "eyeballs" from the standpoint of many sponsors/advertisers.

My bad, Chuck. And I agree that there is a point at which spectators are spectators, regardless of why.

 

[ru4por]

LOL at DG not being a spectator sport, I can see it has some challenges with courses built the way they are. If the snoozer that is ball golf can be a widely accepted spectator sport then discgolf certainly can. I've played both games and DG is just sexier in every way.

It's still in it's infancy but paying pros well so they can at least be middle class does seem like good goal to reach for but something that needs to be built up to. Every sport had this era, there was a time up to the 60s and maybe even up to the 70s that NFL players would play pro ball and go work blue collar jobs on the off season just cuz the money wasn't there. This is the state the DG is in right now.


This is normal for sports that are in it's infancy phase. It will change, I've watched this sport blow up and it doesn't seem to be slowing down especially since Merica got the message that everyone's killing themselves being couch potatos. Outdoor activities like DG are being reinvigorated and reconsidered cuz of this wave of change as well.

Don't get me wrong. I love this game. But, disc golf is not in it's infancy. I have been playing for over three decades. While its popularity is growing, it is a relatively unknown niche game. The vast majority of the nation's population have never heard of disc golf. Sports have certainly exploded, but not without radical changes to make spectating logistically feasible. I think off road rally racing is a great example. Though attended while racing through fields and woods, it's popularity remained small and niche. Until the advent on indoor/outdoor rallycross racing with the same cars and style of racing. Could be change our game to be played on wide open ball golf style courses....likely. But, given a vote, I am not interested in watching or playing that style of disc golf. As David Saul eloquently stated....I am spectator skeptic.

 

[Karl]

Wouldn't this all work out better if everyone were on the same page? 3 different tours all going on at the same time, overlapping and with no structure. Would it be so difficult for the PDGA and all of these other promoters to get together and create a 9-10 month tour with events that have a minimum $7000 added cash and a set fee and payout structure?

IMO Jimi of course it would all work out better, but you're "aged"/wise enough to know that everyone' wants to be the biggest fish* in their own little muddy pond than be one of the biggest fish in a wonderfully clear, pristine lake.

*make all the important decisions, have all the power, get all the credit, etc.

 

[DG_player]

Was there anyone making a living as a touring pro in the 20th century? I'd love to see a line graph of both popularity and money being earned by pros over time. I'd also love to see graphs of company's sales growth over time and prize purses of tourneys as well as number of tournies. You wanna see the truth lets see some graphs!!


No clue where to get the info from tho lol.

Here's the winner's prize money of the US open:

1940 $1000
1950 $4k
1960 $14k
1970 $30k
1980 $55k
1990 $220k
2000 $800k
last year $1.8M

I doubt there were many full time pros without a second job during the early half of the 20th century.

Disc golf is in it's infancy. If it can continue to grow the amount of recreational players, the viability of the pro tour will continue to grow.

 

[ScottyLove]

Here's the winner's prize money of the US open:

1940 $1000
1950 $4k
1960 $14k
1970 $30k
1980 $55k
1990 $220k
2000 $800k
last year $1.8M

I doubt there were many full time pros without a second job during the early half of the 20th century.

Disc golf is in it's infancy. If it can continue to grow the amount of recreational players, the viability of the pro tour will continue to grow.

Agree that we are still very new... maybe toddler stage.

Nikko grabbed $15k a few years back winning the 2009 USDGC which by all measure is our US Open... so that would put us in the 1960's with a ton of upside. Sure, we've actually gone quite a bit backwards since then, but I see that as a just a blip on the radar with bigger payouts coming over the next few year.

Just takes time and exposure...

 

[Royalhghnss]

Isn't Christian Dietrich a lawyer? Pretty sure disc golf isn't going to financially compete with that for a long while...

You are correct sir. Best disc golfing lawyer in the world I'd bet.

^^^ THIS!

We'll need metrics to show potential advertisers what they'll get for their $$. In today's world, they're even gonna want to know the demographic breakdown as well. How may 18-25 men are watching will appeal to Red Bull or Monster. How many 50+ men are watching will appeal to Bayer. How many 26-39 year old women are watching is necessary to land Procter & Gamble.

But that'll take a while... so I we absolutely should be tracking raw numbers as Chuck points out. Maybe our YouTube channel provider of disc golf can start adding surveys to their content???

Google/Youtube already tracks all that. Here's a brief look at just a few of the metrics I have access to, and this was on the mobile app, there's tons more on the desktop.

http://imgur.com/cQB8NWN

 

[Pbmercil]

You are correct sir. Best disc golfing lawyer in the world I'd bet.



Google/Youtube already tracks all that. Here's a brief look at just a few of the metrics I have access to, and this was on the mobile app, there's tons more on the desktop.

http://imgur.com/cQB8NWN

That male/female break down made me LOL