Provisional Throws for Abandoned Throws

[Steve West]

I agree with this.

What I think is crazy is a player can decide whenever they don't like their throw they can just take another one, with penalty. So that adds only 2 strokes instead of the 4, 5 or 6+ they might deserve at that point.

How many would they deserve if the lie is in the middle of a deep lake? As many as it would physically take to get the disc to shore while holding their breath? How far can a disc be thrown underwater?

 

[BillFleming]

It's not a penalty, it is where they threw the disc and still in bounds/play.

Yes they should be penalized as many throws as it takes them to get out of the trees. Even if it's 5 (five) throws.

The rule is not how golf works.

But it is how golf works. There is no rule that says you HAVE to search for your disc (or ball in ball golf). It only sets how long you can spend looking for it. A player can call their disc lost and at that point it is lost - one stroke, replay from the previous lie. So I throw a disc, it goes into the woods and I know I really have trouble throwing out of the woods - or I just don't feel like looking for it - so I call it lost. One stroke penalty and rethrow....that is the rule, PDGA just gives it the name "Abandoned throw".

 

[Jay Dub]

But it is how golf works. There is no rule that says you HAVE to search for your disc (or ball in ball golf). It only sets how long you can spend looking for it. A player can call their disc lost and at that point it is lost - one stroke, replay from the previous lie. So I throw a disc, it goes into the woods and I know I really have trouble throwing out of the woods - or I just don't feel like looking for it - so I call it lost. One stroke penalty and rethrow....that is the rule, PDGA just gives it the name "Abandoned throw".

You keep changing what happened.

The disc was not lost. We could see it deep in the trees. It would have taken a few throws to get out then maybe 2 putts.

 

[BillFleming]

You keep changing what happened.

The disc was not lost. We could see it deep in the trees. It would have taken a few throws to get out then maybe 2 putts.

No I didn't....I was making the point that a player can declare their disc lost without spending time looking for it. You can do that in ball golf, but I re-read the rules for disc golf and it isn't the same.

805.03.a: A disc is declared lost if the player cannot locate it within three minutes after having arrived at the area where it is thought to be.

So a disc golfer MUST look for their disc. Which is different than ball golf where you can declare your ball lost without looking for it.

But my point is the same.....a lost disc penalty is one stroke and rethrow from last spot. If you chose to not throw from where your disc went, PDGA gives you the option to "call it lost" but use the term "Abandoned throw" and take the same penalty as a lost disc: stroke and distance.

 

[Jay Dub]

No I didn't....I was making the point that a player can declare their disc lost without spending time looking for it. You can do that in ball golf, but I re-read the rules for disc golf and it isn't the same.

805.03.a: A disc is declared lost if the player cannot locate it within three minutes after having arrived at the area where it is thought to be.

So a disc golfer MUST look for their disc. Which is different than ball golf where you can declare your ball lost without looking for it.

But my point is the same.....a lost disc penalty is one stroke and rethrow from last spot. If you chose to not throw from where your disc went, PDGA gives you the option to "call it lost" but use the term "Abandoned throw" and take the same penalty as a lost disc: stroke and distance.

And my point has been...

I know this and think it's stupid!

Please don't explain a rule I understand again.

 

[araytx]

Define jail. A player should not have the choice between two throws. That is the crux of the matter.

^^^Exactly this. It is fundamental to the sport and the strongly implied meaning behind a provisional. I hear this same "proposition" from a player every year, often with good intention, but they sem to forget that their proposition has a players seeing the outcome of his throws before selecting. You can't have that as a rule. I always come back with, "...but what if, by some crazy miracle of God, the "potential abandoned provisional" (or the original throw for that matter), goes into an unseen area, then unbeknown to any of us catches a roll, and root, a ricochet, etc, and ends up square dead nuts center chains sitting in the basket?"!

The player, if the rule was he could chose either one, is ALWAYS gonna pick the throw that's in the basket. That's why there should never be an option that allows you to see the outcome of a throw/throws before you decide which one to use. The current provisional rule correctly doesn't allow that. Any "to save time" provisional; is declared -- "I'm throwing this provisional in case I'm OB". Then there are no choices -- If inbounds I MUST use my original throw; if out-of-bounds I MUST use the provisional. See? Same for all other rulebook reasons for the "to save time" provisional.