Question on a rule

[Script]

Cool, I've always done that. I didn't realize at one point, flipping the disc was actually allowed. What year did that get modified?

 

[Cgkdisc]

Flipping a disc was never allowed in the PDGA rules that officially started around 1982. But in the early 70s the practice was allowed until the suspect behavior of multiple flipping and marking discs above the ground created the need for minis.

 

[Mr. America]

Something I am still unclear on, that seems to happen to me often... Let's say your disc comes to rest directly in contact with a tree or object, but directly between the object and the basket. How are you supposed to mark and play that shot? Would you mark behind the object?

 

[Cgkdisc]

Yes, that's what rule 803.04E is all about.

 

[Mr. America]

Something else I am not clear on is when it comes to moving things like branches. I mean if you throw under a tree or bush with low hanging limbs, you can't help but move things to take your stance.

 

[Cgkdisc]

In theory, you need to do what's necessary to minimize the disruption of any living/attached foliage in your stance which sometimes means lying on the ground. However, most players in your group will usually allow you to take a stance while standing in a position with minimum displacement of foliage.

 

[jenb]

Yes, that's what rule 803.04E is all about.

But couldn't you mark in front of the disc? I don't get it. If you choose to play the disc as thew marker, the tree behind the disc is in the way, so then you get to mark behind the tree instead of in front of the disc?

The rule seems to say that you can play the disc, in which case you get to stand behind the tree without marking behind the tree, or you can choose to mark with a mini, in which case the mini goes in front fo your disc, according to rules school. But I don't see anything in 803.04E that would allow marking with the mini behind the tree when the disc lands in front of, but flush with, the tree. And if the disc is not completely flush with the playing surface, the option to play the disc as the marker is not available, the mini has to be placed in front of the disc, and then, the player has to squeeze into that lie in front of the tree and behind the mini.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Nope. If the player declares, I would like to use my disc-that's-in-front-of-the-tree as my marker, then the solid object - the tree - prevents the player from taking a stance. Thus, the player may place their mini on the line of play behind the tree using 803.04E as a reference.

 

[jenb]

but 803.04E doesn't say to place the marker disc, and it specifically says to comply with all the provisions of 803.04 A except being within 30 cm of the marker. So it would seem like placing the mini behind the tree having the disc in front of it would not comply with the rule. How is it possible to place the mini behind the tree when the disc lands in front of the tree, and also comply with the rule as written below?

E. If a large solid obstacle prevents a player from taking a legal stance within 30 centimeters
directly behind the marker disc, the player shall take his or her stance immediately
behind that obstacle on the line of play. The player must comply with all the provisions of
803.04 A other than being within 30 centimeters directly behind the marker disc.

 

[jenb]

really? lol :wall:

see my avatar for thorough explanation

Never underestimate the amount of fun a lawyer cop has playing devil's advocate. grand theft auto

ftfy

 

[mashnut]

but 803.04E doesn't say to place the marker disc, and it specifically says to comply with all the provisions of 803.04 A except being within 30 cm of the marker. So it would seem like placing the mini behind the tree having the disc in front of it would not comply with the rule. How is it possible to place the mini behind the tree when the disc lands in front of the tree, and also comply with the rule as written below?

You're being a bit pedantic on that one, when Chuck said you place your mini behind the tree he obviously meant that's where you throw from, and that's exactly what the quoted rule tells you to do: take your stance behind the tree.

 

[jenb]

pedantic?

 

[cbeckett22]

pedantic?

lmao! All good things! :thmbup:

And this thread is full of good stuff! opcorn:

 

[Mr. America]

Some maturity please? Sorry you don't understand or can't accept the way the rules are to be used...

 

[Mr. America]

I got another question. Let's say a large limb, or a small tree, or something similar has fallen, it is no longer "attached", but it is still somehow suspended somewhat vertically in your way. Can that be moved?

 

[Cgkdisc]

Only if it's in your stance or run up, not if it's completely in front of your lie.

 

[New013]

I've got a question that came up in ball golf once. What if an animal moves your disc? Will you have to guess about where it was or play from wherever the animal moves it.

 

[Cgkdisc]

If the animal is struck with the disc, you play it where it comes to rest. If the animal "intentionally" moves the disc, it's either replaced where it was first contacted by the animal or the the player can choose to rethrow with no penalty.

 

[Mr. America]

I've got a question that came up in ball golf once. What if an animal moves your disc? Will you have to guess about where it was or play from wherever the animal moves it.

We had this happen a few weeks ago. A mexican family pulls up, one of their babies jumps out of the car (on his own), and runs right up to where a guy in our groups disc landed. The very young baby picks it up and starts throwing it. He throws it several times, but only 3 or 4 feet each time. Then his parents yell at him, so he takes the disc and heads back to them and across the parking lot. All 5 of us are yelling the whole time, but my friend had to spring down the fairway and across the parking lot. Needless to say, it didn't seem like any of them understood any english.

 

[Steve West]

Look to the solid object rule 803.04E for the answer. This is the one case where JenB's slipping the mini under the disc is allowed. When you take relief on the line of play as you move behind a solid object, although the rule says "immediately behind" the object, the rule that you need to mark your lie would imply you can place the mini right up against the back of the solid object. So you would at least get the width of your mini relief from it.

In the same way, if your thrown disc is up against a tree trunk where there's not room for a mini other than laying it vertically up the tree trunk (which I've done before the rule allowed using your thrown disc as the marker), you would be allowed to place the mini flat on the ground which in essence moves your lie back the width of the mini. You would really have to want to throw that disc again though to do this since leaving the disc would give you more relief back from the tree to make your next throw.

"803.03 Marking the Lie: A. ... A player may instead choose, without touching or repositioning the thrown disc, to use the thrown disc as the marker.

800. Definitions...Marker: A term used to indicate either the mini marker disc or the thrown disc at rest, both of which can be used to indicate the lie from which a thrower's next shot shall be played.

803.04 Stance, Subsequent to Teeing Off:...E. If a large solid obstacle prevents a player from taking a legal stance within 30 centimeters directly behind the marker disc, the player shall take his or her stance immediately behind that obstacle on the line of play."

You've inappropriately intermingled two or three kinds of rules. 804 E is about Stance, not Marking, not Relief. It says nothing about doing anything different to mark or reposition the lie, it says you take your stance behind the obstacle. Essentially, it gives you permission to take a stance more than 30 cm behind the marker. It is also not "relief" because you are not re-positioning your lie, you are being allowed to take a stance behind the lie.

And yes, it is an odd way of wording a rule. It would be much more logical to have a rule that says you can mark your lie behind the obstacle. That way, your stance after teeing off would always be within 30 cm behind the marker. But it ain't written that way yet. So, this is the one place your stance after teeing off is something other than 30 cm behind the marker.