Rating 9-holers versus 18-holers

[srm_520]

If you can't award a 9-holer a 5 then neither can an 18-holer receive a 5. Only 27 holers (or more) can get 5s if the number of holes is that important.

The problem is that argument could go on forever. I love Phantom Falls because is has 30 holes, so no 27 holer can have a 5. That's silly, because just like in ball golf - 18 holes is the quintessential number you aim for. 18 holes is a complete course. A nine hole course is simply a course that didn't have enough room for 9 more holes. con.

Also, agreed that theoretically a 9 hole could receive 4.5 stars, but how do you make just 9 holes that diverse and complete???

 

[srm_520]

Let's imagine that it is a 9 hole with multiple tees. If the 2nd tees play like a completely different hole would that be a consideration?

I took that into account for a course like Terramont Park for example, and that topped out at 3.5 stars due in part to the alternate tees. You could call it 18 holes, but I think many will agree that there is a definite distinction between the two.

 

[DavidSauls]

I'm also in the camp that a 9-holer would be .5 or 1.0 less than a similar, 18-holer.

Try this. Think of a 4.0 or better, 18-hole course you know that is routed in such a way that it could be cut in half. If you removed the front 9 or back 9, how would you rate the remaining, 9-hole course? How much less eager would you be to play it, or to drive distance to play it?

Most 9-holers I've seen were pretty mediocre. Which, I suspect, is a factor of why they were built to begin with; a small property, a course designed for casual players, perhaps with no experienced course designer. I can think of some 18-holers which, if cut to 9-holes, would be 3.5, better than the 9-holers I've played. So to me it's possible for a 9-holer to be 3.5 or 4.0....but I've yet to see it.

 

[srm_520]

There are a few with one to two reviews that hover from 4 - 4.5, but here are the top two courses with more than two reviews.

3 reviews - 5 disc rating - The Farm

8 reviews - 3.94 disc rating - Signal View DG

 

[dgaficionado]

Wasn't this just discussed a couple months ago in the Rating 9-holers versus 18-holers thread?

 

[Karl]

I agree with Chuck (et al) on this one.

Most of you'd be willing to rate an 18-hole course as high as a 5.
Most of you'd be willing to rate a hole as high as a 5.
Most of you'd be willing to rate a specific aspect of a hole (say, tee signs or tee pads) as high as a 5.
Why not rate a "half-a-course" a 5...if it's the BEST "half-a-course" there is?

Karl

 

[zenbot]

Wasn't this just discussed a couple months ago in the Rating 9-holers versus 18-holers thread?

Thanks for pointing that out. Threads are merged.

 

[tallpaul]

^^^Most who posted in that thread have stayed out of this one. Their ideas have already been expressed and this thread is an opportunity for new views. I thought I had posted in that thread; but going through quickly; didn't seem as if I had. I believe a 3.5 is what I have given two niners; perhaps only a 3. I don't think I would go above a 3.5 unless if was something awfully special. Two, I know I have given at least a 3 to are Grafton, WI, which was mentioned earlier in this thread. Had I reviewed that course years ago, I would have rated it probably higher than at the present. Grafton was installed years ago, and is a bit "old school" now. Still, it has water, elevation, and a great mixture of shots required. Also, the lime kilns themselves, coming into play on the last hole, knock if up .5 all by themselves. Brickyard, also in Wisconsin, is the first course I ever reviewed and is a good nine as well. 3 sets of tees (actually a fourth set that were original and are hard to find), and two permanent baskets for each hole, as well as quite interesting design, make this one a course I look forward to returning to. In general, I would not even give an 18 hole course a five rating unless it had multiple courses on site and/or was more than 18 holes....or, is something awfully special....

 

[skurf]

Someone recently gave the 9 holer (Westside Park in Marble Falls, TX) near where I work a 4.5. It's a good course, but not anywhere close to a 4.5 IMO. That's rating it higher than the average of the highest rated 18-hole courses in Texas, and it just doesn't come anywhere close to that imo. Not only because it's only 9 holes, but there's really not any memorable holes, signature holes, wooded holes, elevation changes, and the difficulty level is low-to-medium.

 

[Dave242]

I insert new courses into my ranking list (165 18-hole, 95 9-hole as of early 2009) based on this question: If this course and 3 adjacent courses on my ranked list were all 5 miles from my home, would I play this new course more or less often? I insert the new course in a grouping where all 4 are roughly equal in their ability to draw me back to themselves.

So......if a 9 hole course has the ability to draw me back to itself at the level of the best 18 holers, it gets a 5.0.

Problem is, even with this methodology I cannot get my brain around how to compare apples-apples since there are other factors that come into play (time budget, energy spent, variety potential, etc) when comparing 9's to 18's (and more). So I keep 2 separate lists: 1 for 18 holes and more and one for less than 18 (there are a bunch of 12 holers out there). This sux, since it does not translate perfectly to this site (but it actually is the best possible approach IMO and works relatively well).

Here are my top-rated 9-holers:

Grade	Grade	DGCR	Course
97	A+	5.0	Campton Hills*_____	St. Charles	IL
96	A	4.5	Winged Deer (9 RIP)	Johnson City	TN
94	A	4.5	Ashe County (9 RIP)	Jefferson	NC
93	A	4.5	Cordelia Park (RIP)	Charlotte	NC
92	A-	4.0	Lime-Kiln Park_____	Grafton____	WI
91	A-	4.0	Warren Township__	Gurnee____	IL
91	A-	4.0	Adler Park_______	Libertyville	IL
91	A-	4.0	Hellyer__________	San Jose	CA
90	A-	4.0	Squirrel Lake_____	Charlotte	NC
90	A-	4.0	Mint Hill_________	Mint Hill	NC

* Campton Hills was an exception and was graded differently - as a 1 disc only (putter) course.

 

[dreadlock86]

i can't remember if i've already made note of this in this thread but i can't run out of good things to say about saddle hills in ft worth. 9 fantastic holes with a ton of variety and apparently they just added a second set of tees!

i rated this course 3.5 and that was an easy decision and the course was still brand new. with concrete tees and restrooms, i'd give it a 4 or higher.


rabbit flats is also a hell of a 9 holer.

 

[dreadlock86]

according to txdgboy's review, saddle hills is also doing multiple basket positions. i just might have to get back out there and update my review. i think multiple tees and basket positions just might mean +.5

 

[NDABRUSH]

There are a few with one to two reviews that hover from 4 - 4.5, but here are the top two courses with more than two reviews.

3 reviews - 5 disc rating - The Farm

8 reviews - 3.94 disc rating - Signal View DG

The farm is a private course. You play with the owner and drink. I think the people that gave it 5 did so for the total experience rather than the course design or terrain. I could be wrong though.

 

[srm_520]

The farm is a private course. You play with the owner and drink. I think the people that gave it 5 did so for the total experience rather than the course design or terrain. I could be wrong though.

Shouldn't the total experience way into your rank? I think that factor can sometimes be more important than terrain or design. Although, again - I have a hard time believing this course is truly a 5 - are these three reviewers all flippers too?

 

[tallpaul]

They are just loving too much. I think that many do not realize the effort that local crews and parks departments make towards course design and maintenance. At private courses; especially in this case; where these same persons seem to be responsible for Ludington courses; the love just overflows. This is also the reason why people argue that there should be no 0 or even 1 rated courses; if they have an idea of what it takes to design, create, and maintain a disc course. It's been noted before, that it's no real surprise that many of the top ten are private or have that feel. After one's felt all the love; one needs to give .5 or so for that; and then, back off and evaluate the myriad of things that make an overall ranking.

 

[Olorin]

Restaurant analogy

Bluemont in Arlington VA is a solid 3.5 disc 9 holer that any other 9 holer you're considering giving a higher rating to should be compared against. ...Olorin gave it 4 discs, how's that for a testimonial. :thmbup:

tmahan, thanks for the vote of confidence! I was thinking of chiming in with Bluemont as an example, so this gives me the nudge to do so.

Without rehashing everything said so far, I agree completely with what RussMB has said.

My ratings are all about my enjoyment (NOT quality) of the course. For me the very best 9 hole course leaves me dissatisfied. I think the 18 holes is the standard, so when I play a great 9 holer it's like going to a restaurant and only being served 1/2 a plate of food. With a 9 holer I might love what I got, but I walk away without being "full".

In fact, since I'm talking about enjoyment the restaurant analogy might be a good one, if you consider 18 as a standard portion. Think of different restaurants where the enjoyment of the food is the same:
· 18 holes leaves me full
· 9 holes seems like ½ of a plate. It might be good, but it's not enough.
· 6 holes seems like 1/3 of a plate. Even if it's great, this is seriously not enough. Like a small appetizer.
· 27 holes is like a free dessert or a super size portion for the same price. I'm stuffed, so I enjoyed it even more than an 18 holer.

So my highest rated 9 hole course so far is Bluemont Park, and I gave it an 8.5 out of 10. That's the standard that I judge other 9 hole courses against. But as great as it is, I always leave wanting more. (You can see my updated list of 9 hole course ratings for a more detailed view of where various 9 holers I've played stack up.)

This only leaves comparing different restaurants where you enjoy the food differently.
· A 9 holer has to be more enjoyable so that the smaller portion makes it worth while. If Bluemont was 18 holes it would easily get a 5 disc rating from me, but as it is I enjoy it slightly less than 18 hole courses that I've given 4.5 discs. On these 18 holeres each 9 of the 18 holers probably doesn't equal 9 of Bluemont, though. I enjoy the holes of Bluemont more than other 18 holers that I've rated as 4 discs. On whole the fare of Bluemont's 9 is far superior to 4 disc rated 18 holers, but there just wasn't enough of it.
· The smaller portion from an enjoyable 9 holer is better than the larger portion of a lower rated 18 hole course. I'll take Bluemont over any 18 holer rated 3.5 or lower.

In summary, here's one more way to look at what I'm trying to say. Consider the courses that I've given top ratings to:
· Water Works in KC (18 holes) = 5
· Seneca in MD (27 holes) = 5
· Walnut Creek in VA (18 holes) = 4.5
· Bluemont in VA (9 holes) = 4
It's all about enjoyment, and if I had a limited choice to just play one course here's the order I'd choose: Seneca... Water Works... Walnut Creek... Bluemont. I'd choose Seneca first because with the 27 holes I'd leave "stuffed" and totally satisfied. As great as Bluemont is it's just not enough to compare to a full course meal type of course.

 

[Dave242]

Great analogy on the restaurant and serving size!

 

[NDABRUSH]

Shouldn't the total experience way into your rank? I think that factor can sometimes be more important than terrain or design. Although, again - I have a hard time believing this course is truly a 5 - are these three reviewers all flippers too?

HAHAHA!!! We know one of them is. Total experience... for me yes. For some it's all fun factor. The 1st course that I will prob give a 5 to is Phantom falls. It's right up my alley. Heavily wooded and very hilly. It will be my 1st course anywhere North of Arkansas so I will be more blown away with the terrain and scenery than Tallpaul would be for example. Stack up on top of that the fact that it's private and more than 18 holes. I can't imagine it not being my finest experience playing disc golf.