Reach back era is over, long live the whip.

[RowingBoats]

Your hips
And shoulders
Are ahead
Of your forearm
When you release

The angle between your shoulders and upper arm should never be less than 90 degrees. If that angle goes less than 90 degrees, you are rounding. Alas, the only way to keep the 90 degrees is to use techniques that you dislike.

Your hips and shoulders
Are ahead of your forearm
When you release disc

Your haiku was missing a syllable.

 

[scooby snack]

It takes all kinds to make a forum interesting.

Not defending Rodeo, but he's got his own gig and yes says a lot of stuff I disagree with. BUT, presenting and discussing this stuff should actually introduce and educate people. He's generally polite and his posts that I've seen are not negative or hateful towards anyone —just wrong (IMO).

Rodeo derails and takes over every thread he posts in. That's not just my opinion, but the opinion of many of the people posting here.

He gives bad advice, potentially setting up new players for failure and even injury. He claims he hurt his right arm throwing and now has to throw left handed, but he refuses to listen to people telling him he is at risk of injuring himself...again.

Different POV's are what make a discussion board interesting, and they promote new ideas and learning.

Rodeo has demonstrated repeatedly he's not here to learn. He disagrees with Sidewinder, HUB, and others who have tried to help him.

He's a narcissist. His interest lies in de-constructing good advice, and replacing it with his own.

 

[Jay Dub]

Rodeo derails and takes over every thread he posts in. That's not just my opinion, but the opinion of many of the people posting here.

He gives bad advice, potentially setting up new players for failure and even injury. He claims he hurt his right arm throwing and now has to throw left handed, but he refuses to listen to people telling him he is at risk of injuring himself...again.

Different POV's are what make a discussion board interesting, and they promote new ideas and learning.

Rodeo has demonstrated repeatedly he's not here to learn. He disagrees with Sidewinder, HUB, and others who have tried to help him.

He's a narcissist. His interest lies in de-constructing good advice, and replacing it with his own.

You new people to these forums will figure out who to read and who to scroll on by.

Your comment about his opinions possibly hurting others is hyperbole. Nothing said on these forums will cause injury to anyone.

 

[ChrisWoj]

You new people to these forums will figure out who to read and who to scroll on by.

Your comment about his opinions possibly hurting others is hyperbole. Nothing said on these forums will cause injury to anyone.

 

[scooby snack]

You new people to these forums will figure out who to read and who to scroll on by.

Your comment about his opinions possibly hurting others is hyperbole. Nothing said on these forums will cause injury to anyone.

My comment about his opinions possibly hurting others, has been stated by Sidewinder, Dreadlock, and Grip to name a few.

Please stop accusing me of exaggerating. If you took the time to read these posts, you would be informed, as opposed to making assumptions.

 

[Jay Dub]

My comment about his opinions possibly hurting others, has been stated by Sidewinder, Dreadlock, and Grip to name a few.

Please stop accusing me of exaggerating. If you took the time to read these posts, you would be informed, as opposed to making assumptions.

If you took the time to scroll on by and get out to play golf instead you wouldn't be here whining about someone you don't know.

 

[Jay Dub]

This is not a medical forum. If ANYONE is taking medical advice from this forum they deserve what they get.

 

[RoDeO]

You keep bringing up McBeth - you're doing things that look nothing like anything McBeth does. Like I said before - I definitely mis-spoke when I said your hips were out ahead of your shoulders. I think I was wrong saying that they were lagging:

1. You lead with the hips.
2. But your setup is so far off that when you get your foot down it isn't rotated into the correct position.
3. Your hips come through and finish their job.
4. And then, once the hips are completely finished engaging you rip with the arm on its own.

You basically have a breakdown of the kinetic chain. Instead of your hip rotation powering your drive, your hip rotation happens, ends way early, and then you compensate by going all arm into the drive.

I've attached 3 images to show how your hips are completely wrong when you're releasing the discs.

1. A screenshot of you, with your hips a mile behind the action, as the disc is released.
2. A screenshot of McBeth showing his hips in proper position when the disc is released.
3. A screenshot of McBeth's actual protege - showing he wouldn't teach the drive to look anything like yours at release.

In each image I've taken a screenshot at the exact point we can tell the disc is emerging from the hand. In your image - your hips are a country mile behind where McBeth's hips are. When the disc emerges from Paul's hand, and you can see it is by the visible open space between the disc and palm, his pelvis is facing almost completely forward. Likewise with Barela. In your image, by contrast, your ass is almost facing us at the camera behind you.

Please use the other video that was more from the side and not so much behind. Camera angles mean everything. I'm not saying you are right or wrong but I posted that other video in response to this.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Please use the other video that was more from the side and not so much behind. Camera angles mean everything. I'm not saying you are right or wrong but I posted that other video in response to this.

You're right, the second video is much better. It isn't the angle though - you can tell by looking at your knees. In the first video your knees are still, clearly, both facing the wrong direction which is a telltale sign for what the hips are actually doing. This second one - you're still a touch behind (only a touch, look where your front knee is pointing), but it is better. A lot better. Don't blame the camera angle, the first video is just a **** throw.

 

[RoDeO]

Your hips
And shoulders
Are ahead
Of your forearm
When you release

The angle between your shoulders and upper arm should never be less than 90 degrees. If that angle goes less than 90 degrees, you are rounding. Alas, the only way to keep the 90 degrees is to use techniques that you dislike.

Okay, I don't think the video angle shows that as you can't really see from the backside.

 

[scooby snack]

If you took the time to scroll on by and get out to play golf instead you wouldn't be here whining about someone you don't know.

LOL, shouldn't you be following your own advice and ignoring my posts?

It's an internet forum, boomer. If you can't handle what others post to the point you feel you need to try to tell them what to do. You need to get a life, sheesh.

 

[Jay Dub]

LOL, shouldn't you be following your own advice and ignoring my posts?

It's an internet forum, boomer. If you can't handle what others post to the point you feel you need to try to tell them what to do. You need to get a life, sheesh.

Aren't you trying to tell others what to do? lol

Boomer? That means I'm acting my age, I suggest you try that too.

I laugh every time someone uses that as a potential insult. "OK Boomer", wow, that got me.

But if you want medical advice from here you will hurt yourself and I will point and laugh.

 

[RoDeO]

You're right, the second video is much better. It isn't the angle though - you can tell by looking at your knees. In the first video your knees are still, clearly, both facing the wrong direction which is a telltale sign for what the hips are actually doing. This second one - you're still a touch behind (only a touch, look where your front knee is pointing), but it is better. A lot better. Don't blame the camera angle, the first video is just a **** throw.

I'm curious (and trying to learn) on something. If I was all arming and not using the hips or body to rip the disc through, how come after a good throwing session my hip and back muscles get fatigued and my whole arm and shoulder feel fine? I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying that when I threw RHBH and got injured it was all arm and I know that feeling. Yesterday I probably threw about 250 shots in my garage and they were all generally over 80% effort. My hip/back on the front side and towards the middle from there were a bit fatigued. I could tell those were indeed the muscles that were being taxed.

 

[ChrisWoj]

I'm curious (and trying to learn) on something. If I was all arming and not using the hips or body to rip the disc through, how come after a good throwing session my hip and back muscles get fatigued and my whole arm and shoulder feel fine? I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying that when I threw RHBH and got injured it was all arm and I know that feeling. Yesterday I probably threw about 250 shots in my garage and they were all generally over 80% effort. My hip/back on the front side and towards the middle from there were a bit fatigued. I could tell those were indeed the muscles that were being taxed.

Your back shouldn't be fatigued after the session. That's a problem. If anything your LEGS should feel fatigued. This is probably because of the number of throws that look more like the first video you posted. As I said repeatedly now: your hips are leading in that video BUT by the time you get to the arm whipping through the hips are done. You're using all lower back to whip the upper body around on its own. You aren't doing this so much in the second video, which is much better for sure. But your back is probably fatigued because you're finished with the hips by the time you pull through.

If anything - after a longer session with a lot of drives I'm feeling it more down near the IT band.
edit: more gluteus medias/piriformis than anything above the hips.

 

[RoDeO]

Your back shouldn't be fatigued after the session. That's a problem. If anything your LEGS should feel fatigued. This is probably because of the number of throws that look more like the first video you posted. As I said repeatedly now: your hips are leading in that video BUT by the time you get to the arm whipping through the hips are done. You're using all lower back to whip the upper body around on its own. You aren't doing this so much in the second video, which is much better for sure. But your back is probably fatigued because you're finished with the hips by the time you pull through.

If anything - after a longer session with a lot of drives I'm feeling it more down near the IT band.
edit: more gluteus medias/piriformis than anything above the hips.

I'm a bit confused, eh eh. When I watch it frame by frame I'm still seeing hip rotation through release. How can my hips be done if they are still rotating? Did you mean sonething else? I'm a bit lost with understanding I guess.

 

[UhhNegative]

Anyone else find it comical that this discussion went from, "Technique isn't that important, I'm just going to try really hard and throw a lot" to actual useful technique discussion.

 

[ChrisWoj]

I'm a bit confused, eh eh. When I watch it frame by frame I'm still seeing hip rotation through release. How can my hips be done if they are still rotating? Did you mean sonething else? I'm a bit lost with understanding I guess.

Your hips can still be moving without being the driving force behind the throw. Think of it like a rubber band that is flying through the air after being shot from your fingers. The band is going to continue to rotate after the potential energy has been spent. In that first video your hips are done. They're still moving, but they're no longer pulling the upper body through. The muscles in the lower back are at that point working on their own to pull the arm, and the hips are now being dragged by that momentum.

(there are better torsion related examples using metallic wound springs I could use instead of a rubber band, but I can't think of the name of any specific devices)

 

[UhhNegative]

Since this is turning into Rodeo's personal form thread:

I think the latest video looks a lot better than previous ones. I don't think the sequencing is as big of an issue as the weight shift. It's just a little slow. The rear foot isn't everting soon enough/enough. And the arm/shoulders are a little early. By the time the front toes touch down, the disc has already been moving forward for a while which makes you lose out on a lot of swing space. Not a bad throw overall though.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Anyone else find it comical that this discussion went from, "Technique isn't that important, I'm just going to try really hard and throw a lot" to actual useful technique discussion.

I'm trying realllll hard to procrastinate on grading discussion board posts from 28 students by evaluating the discussion board posts of one disc golfer.

I'm bad at procrastinating.

 

[UhhNegative]

Little hard to see here but Paul at toes down vs Rodeo at toes down:

Easier to see in motion but Paul's rear heel is moving targetward and Rodeo's is spinning in place. And Paul's disc hasn't really started moving forward yet while Rodeo's has started moving a solid 10+ frames earlier.