Rec Par vs. Pro Par

[surgeflx87]

I'm confused.

Why not just play what the course designer intended?

If the course has a pro par and a rec par, then why not play what's listed?

If your make a living at, or supplement your income by playing disc golf....then by all means you should play the pro par.

If your income has nothing to do with disc golf, then you should consider yourself an amateur and play the rec par.

I suppose this is one of the main differences in ball golf and disc golf. In ball golf, the course designer sets the given pars for each hole and it's abided byl. In disc golf, people seem to want to ignore the course design and go with what makes them happy.

The whole argument of counting every thing as a par three making it easier to keep score really makes us seem like morons. I mean, if we cant keep up with 4's because our little brains can't comprehend a little more arithmetic, then that's pretty sad. That's what they make paper, pencils, and score cards for.

I guess in the end you can just count strokes and come up with the same results. Just hard to measure your success or failures against the course.

I completely disagree with this. So just because im not making a living at this, i should should rec par. So some holes around here that are 250 or even shorter sometimes should be played as 4s, as they say on the sign. Absolutely not. Unless you're a ten year old, then maybe. But alot of the time the posted rec pars are so ridiculous. I also would much rather shoot a +3 then a -15. It just sounds absurd. Like others have said there is no reason for some of the posted pars being 4s or 5s unless they are 600+ ft. holes.

 

[Elderberen]

with new disc which fly farther then the old ones older courses have different pars the new courses are longer and more challenging so i play pro par all the time do i make money no but its not a challenge getting a birdie on three ore a ace for a -3 on you cared.

 

[notapro]

with new disc which fly farther then the old ones older courses have different pars the new courses are longer and more challenging so i play pro par all the time do i make money no but its not a challenge getting a birdie on three ore a ace for a -3 on you cared.

Exactly my point. This is what I was trying to say in my earlier post, but couldn't quite word it properly.

 

[DavidSauls]

What does "Rec Par" mean, anyway?

Whatever's posted on the sign, by the course designer or whoever else put up the signs, possibly 20 years ago for a different technology?

Sadly, there are not agreed-up standards, applied uniformly, for "par" of any sort. Some courses have no "par" posted; unless you can find a scorecard with it, you must make it up on your own.

The two courses I play most have

Course 1 Par on signs = 68 My average = 52
Course 2 Par on scorecard = 62 My average = 70

 

[Script]

It doesn't matter what "par" you use. As long as the people you're comparing your best and worst rounds to use the same, you'll understand where you stand.

I remember back in the day when a 350' straight, slightly uphill wide open throw was a par 4, and we all agreed that you'd be crazy to get a 2 on it. Now, (not close to making a living or having an income from disc golf) it's an obvious par 3 and a birdie oportunity.

With all this in mind, course designers often know nothing about disc golf and they base there "par" on what they think it should be. Think about ball golf. A long 250 yd par 3 is still a par 3 for a "rec" player. The par is based off of a pro skill set.

All this said, play the pro par. That way you'll stay consistent and you'lll be able to track your progress a lot easier in your head for the future when your skills go way up.

 

[magictenor1]

I'm confused.

Why not just play what the course designer intended?

If the course has a pro par and a rec par, then why not play what's listed?

If your make a living at, or supplement your income by playing disc golf....then by all means you should play the pro par.

If your income has nothing to do with disc golf, then you should consider yourself an amateur and play the rec par.

I suppose this is one of the main differences in ball golf and disc golf. In ball golf, the course designer sets the given pars for each hole and it's abided byl. In disc golf, people seem to want to ignore the course design and go with what makes them happy.

The whole argument of counting every thing as a par three making it easier to keep score really makes us seem like morons. I mean, if we cant keep up with 4's because our little brains can't comprehend a little more arithmetic, then that's pretty sad. That's what they make paper, pencils, and score cards for.

I guess in the end you can just count strokes and come up with the same results. Just hard to measure your success or failures against the course.

I agree with you 100%

 

[G Bud]

Sadly, there are not agreed-up standards, applied uniformly, for "par" of any sort. Some courses have no "par" posted; unless you can find a scorecard with it, you must make it up on your own.

What about these: http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/ParGuidelines.pdf

Or maybe this: http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/PDGASkillGuides2009.pdf

The problem is uniform application.

 

[craftsman]

So last time I got into a par debate I stopped and thought maybe I don't know what I'm talking about since my state doesn't have the longest of courses. BUT, with the tobbagan course being up I realized I was correct. Par is stated as 62 but guess what, many guns are shooting 56's! Ima still strive for threes I guess

 

[Rockyraccoon]

I suppose my post was made in haste as I didn't realize that some courses were scored with par 5's at short distances.

All of the local courses to me are scored with mostly par 3's. The few courses around that do have some (2 - 3) par 4's always seemed legit to me. Where the distance or hole design requires a good drive.....then a 200 foot or better approach.......then one or two putt. Always seemed fair to me......as only the best of the local talent seem to duece these par 4's.

I understand now with the silly short par >3 argument and I suppose I need to play more courses to see this problem in person. I still think some holes can warrant being a par 4 under the right circumstances.

 

[aarikc17]

there is only one par, and that is the course par.

 

[grube.fresh]

rec par is like bowling with bumpers.

 

[Technohic]

This is still going on?

Par doesnt matter, its the total throws in the end that counts.

Is that simple enough?

 

[Dave242]

So last time I got into a par debate I stopped and thought maybe I don't know what I'm talking about since my state doesn't have the longest of courses. BUT, with the tobbagan course being up I realized I was correct. Par is stated as 62 but guess what, many guns are shooting 56's! Ima still strive for threes I guess

You make no sense.

You are saying good players are shooting under par. That is a how it should be. If you are saying the best players are shooting 56, they are scoring over par 54 (that's the "all par 3" standard you are arguing), then par would be set too low.

The goal of golf is to go for birdies (to do better than average), so if you are shooting for 3's on the longer (par 4) holes, you are shooting for birdies.

 

[Terry C]

Haha opcorn:

Imagine watching a train speeding down the tracks toward a school bus full of kids stalled on the tracks....

Or a guy who's been chugging jagermeister straight out of the bottle all night and then eats a huge bowl of ravioli and then starts to gag...

That is like watching where this thread is about to go.....:doh:

 

[Terry C]

Heres several examples of topics that have no end....

Racism

Religion

Abortion

Politics

Par

 

[notapro]

Par doesnt matter, its the total throws in the end that counts.

Bingo. There are two types of pars, IMO:

1. Par for the course

Playing all par 3's on most courses is the easiest way to keep track of the total number of shots. Maybe playing tougher courses as all par 4's is appropriate as well, to keep this number as close to 0 as possible. I would rather cut the strokes into my forearm a la Michael Biehn in The Abyss than carry a pencil around with me. Just a personal preference I suppose.

2. Par for the hole

That sucks if you need a sign to tell you how you should feel about a particular hole. Do you want some yahoo with open land to tell you how many strokes you should be happy with? I will approach a hole and say, if I get a 3 here, I will have played the hole great. A 4, decent. A 5, poor.

Once you get past the diaper stage of disc golf, you should be able to gauge your own ability vs. the hole you are on and rate your performance based on the total number of strokes. You don't need any set number to go against, that is for beginners.

I guess if you are playing a course for the first time, and want to know how you did compared to other golfers, you can figure out your score based off the rec par, and run home and tell your mama how many strokes under you are. "Mama, mama, I was -12 today! I am so good at this game!"

 

[Elderberen]

i play all par3 some times i will play with groups that play the rec par and i will play par 3 so i don't get eagles and brides all the time. like a handy cap for better players.

 

[djjeremiahj]

par is irrelevant....
it just gives you an idea of how many strokes an "Average" player should accumulate.

i play "everything is 3" as that's the unofficial standard and makes things a lot easier. Also, save the the longest shots, a decent golfer should be able to get 3 on almost every hole; you might not get an opportunity for a birdie, but you should get into the pin in 3.

par is irrelevant as you are only competing with yourself.
when you play tournaments or competitively, you are competing against someone else's RAW cumulative score. If you play a gentleman's game with your buddy, you are competing against his score, not the course par.

At the end of your game, you add up all your +'s and -'s and compare them. It makes no difference in the end if you got 3 birds on the hardest holes (and par'ed the 3 easiest) or if you got 3 birds on average holes. the -3 is the same.

 

[Olorin]

I've gotta say that since the revival of this thread there have been some really ignorant ideas expressed. People really need to do more homework if they want to talk more intelligently about this whole par issue.

A lot of the issue here arises from using Sign par. Sign par is generally useless because the par numbers were pulled out of the air for a multitude of reasons. True par is important and fundamental to any sport with golf in it's name. "Rec par" is an oxymoron, and "Pro par" is mistaken. Green Par on a Green level course will always be well below "Pro par" (however that's calculated). Par is just par.

Some newer readers might enjoy some more reading:

Why par is necessary
Close Range Par

And from the DGCR archives:
DGCR Par threads

I don't have time or interest in long winded debates that go nowhere, so I don't plan to say more here.

In my opinion, the "everything is par 3" mentality is silly, without any connection to reality, and sets our sport back.

I don't mean to come across as haughty or bombastic, but it's just evident that lots of people still have lots to learn to be able to discuss this issue in an informed way.

 

[scarpfish]

Rec Par - an oxymoron
Pro Par - redundant