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Renaissance Park
- Thread starter timg
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2011
- Messages
- 1,723
Yes. It has been adjusted for the Selinske.
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2012
- Messages
- 202
Seems pretty legit. I played there for the first time the other day and was all kinds of confused by what was going on from a layout perspective.
All my grey and gold signs aren't going to make any sense. sigh. something to update this winter.
bhadella
* Ace Member *
The evolution of the short layout continues at Renny. The old Grey 13/Gold 14 hole was a trainwreck for tournament play. Moderately tight initial 200' or so and then fairway banks left and downhill another 250' or so. The tight early fairway is always a muddy mess and then the left turning fairway tricks people into hyzerbombs that end up fading way down the hill into oblivion. This kind of hole ends up with 4 and 5 card backups during tournament play. So it makes sense to kill it for Grey along with the meh 11 and 12 that play to that fairway. Unfortunately we still use Gold for tournament play so the issues (muddy mess and lots of discs landing blind and downhill) still exist. I hope a better long term arrangement exists instead of cutting some a the best (most interesting) par 4s into two par 3s in the old Grey #17 and #18. And then it still leaves the "Pro" course has having several "tweener" holes.
So it's now the Gold/Pro course? That was possibly the most confusing course I played down there and that was before all this stuff went down.
bhadella
* Ace Member *
Look at the bright side, the upcoming US Masters will ensure that all of the holes have updated teesigns.
We (THEY) change up the course for speed of play, the worlds layout was completely different too. I'm sure we will figure out everything after the tournament, what goes and what stays.
The new layout is safer for a majority of the Masters Fields. (no island on 18)
In the end, we just don't have enough people willing to take initiative to fully maintain Renny. 11-13, 18 grow and grow and its just not appropriate play holes that end up looking like that.
A change like this occurred 3-4 years ago but some people said they would upkeep 11-13 but of course it didn't happen. 2 dedicated people is not enough to upkeep Renny so...now we get a less great course. 11-13, 18 could all be maintained with a 6-8 person dedicated team, there aren't enough that really care. Gabe (& Stan)simply cannot do everything themselves even though Gabe is one hard working SOB.
So is this change permanent? Just a tournament thing? From what I'm gathering, the course will change yet again in a few weeks?
how many are there? 2? but not really anymore with the re-design of Hornets?
When a park department gives you land 20 years ago, and you build a course, but then people get better and you only have that land to work with, I guess they decided to make Charlotte's Web and Renny Gold overlap. So where is the obsession?
One day I wore Brute cologne on the first day of 7th grade. Not sure that means I am obsessed with it.
Doesn't Renski overlap with the Gold/whatever they are going to call the other layout? I thought it did but please correct me if I'm wrong. So that makes 3 layouts on 1 piece of property. Web/nest is obviously an unknown right now, and then you have the "Skillborne" layout at Killborne. So that is (at one time) 3 overlapping layouts in 1 metro area, and I've never seen ONE other course build overlapping layouts like that. Not saying they aren't out there, but I'd never heard of it until I played Charlotte. I think 3 as compared to the typical ZERO qualifies as a pattern. Its especially odd because its not like the area isn't lacking in quantity of courses. If there were only 1 or 2 course locations available in an area with a high demand for more golf I could see it, but that isn't the case in the charlotte metro.
I'm always amazed at how defense Charlotte golfers can get on here. We all love Charlotte golf and wish our local scenes were 10% as good as yours, but make one slightly negative comment and people will jump down your throat every time.
with the amount of club members in the area it is a shame that is sounds like it is hard to get club members to help out with course maintance. There are a few members in our club that are the main guys when it comes to upgrades, new parks, etc and all they need to do is post on our club facebook when they need help fixing this or that & many guys, myself included will show up ready to work with rakes, shovles, clippers, whatever is needed.
I have to believe this can also be done there. Just pick a day and tell your club members, we are putting in all new signs today & fixing this or that.
Just do it. Keep Renaissance at the high rating it is now & don't let it go to crap. I only played there once & was lost once or twice but had a great time playing what grey & gold holes I could figure out. I can only hope the new layout is corrected & has at least some next tees signs or a new map for my October visit.
I have to believe this can also be done there. Just pick a day and tell your club members, we are putting in all new signs today & fixing this or that.
Just do it. Keep Renaissance at the high rating it is now & don't let it go to crap. I only played there once & was lost once or twice but had a great time playing what grey & gold holes I could figure out. I can only hope the new layout is corrected & has at least some next tees signs or a new map for my October visit.
grodney
* Ace Member *
Winthrop also overlaps -- year-round.
bhadella
* Ace Member *
Renny isn't going to crap, it's just what it is. Renny has a high rating in spite of how hard it is to maintain. Heck, it's about in as good of shape as it's been since Worlds. Outdated teesigns and lackluster teepads were always what holds it back. But maintaining 20 courses with pure volunteer help is very challenging. Some courses have dedicated crews keeping the courses immaculate (Bradford, Idlewild, Kilborne, Winget) while others take a team just to fight them back (Nest, Renny). The challenge for Renny especially is that the projects take more skilled work than just a random crew with loppers and rakes. Renny especially has a few monumental projects ahead to get it more safe.
You are the take everything to the extreme internet guy. "Obsession" "Jump down your throat" I just explained Charlotte has had 2 overlapping courses and much work has been done to reduce that. The overlapping courses were made when that was the only way you could get variability. When you design a course tee to green to tee to green, you do not have the ability to add longs and shorts with out overlaying a course in and out of that original course. It is not an obsession, just a result of a fledgling group of designers making the most out of what was presented to them 15-20 years ago. How could they know they would open the door to so many more courses. None of the courses built in Charlotte in the last 10 years have an overlapping layout (except maybe Renske which I submit is a different case) So your contention that there is some grand obsession with the style of layout is off base. Now if you mention fast greens and raised baskets...well sure you would have a point.
Renaissance has overlapping layouts. For a while about 2010-2013 Renny had just one layout with longs and shorts. Renny Black and Renny gold played the same hole numbers and same layout. Making the Web the only course with a quasi overlapping layout for those 3 years. Innova gave us baskets and the county the land to use the top 3 holes of Renny Gold and its border woods (a very narrow strip) to build a beginner course. That makes a south Charlotte (Elon) Mid Charlotte (Renske) and North Charlotte (Bailey) beginner course.
The initial idea was that we would run the entire tournament at Renaissance. Some days 72 on Renske and 72 on Renny Black. Then others tee times for Renny Gold. The Renske course would be a temporary course removed after the event. HOWEVER we were able to get to keep it. So again, what should we do? Turn down the land and baskets?
Regardless of that new Hornets Nest will eliminate all of the overlapping holes. You will have New Web and then shorts for that course will be new Nest. I believe there is talk of eliminating Gold as we know it only to be played by people who are interested. The move away from overlapping layouts should be a clear indication that there is no obsession.
Skillborne has longs and shorts. They are not overlapping layouts just longer tees and pins, like most areas have that have limited opportunity for courses.
Thanks Grodney for the example of another overlapping course.
Winthrop is not a Charlotte course nor was there any imput by Charlotte designers in its design. It is Rock Hill/Innova's overlapping layout obsession problem.
So this really went in a different direction than intended. I was just wondering what to do with the course page 
grodney
* Ace Member *
Yep, just providing completeness of data --- with Rock Hill being in the Charlotte MSA and many people considering it a "Charlotte" course --- realizing, as you note, that the designers and maintainers are completely different people.
It definitely appeared "strange" to outsiders when this area had overlaps at Renny, Hornets, Kilborne (sort of), and Winthrop.
too late, the can of worms is open
Thank you for the update, I am sure it will not go to crap, that was a bit harsh. I look forward to my October trip and some new holes.
And by the way at times it was more that just trimming & raking, we also asked who has skill at building things, stairs at Markham & Tradewinds (Ft, Lauderdale, Fl) come to mind & the response was also great.
Thank you for the update, I am sure it will not go to crap, that was a bit harsh. I look forward to my October trip and some new holes.
And by the way at times it was more that just trimming & raking, we also asked who has skill at building things, stairs at Markham & Tradewinds (Ft, Lauderdale, Fl) come to mind & the response was also great.
